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NGT48 Assault Case

Discussion in 'General NGT48 Discussion' started by Cisalpine88, Jan 9, 2019.

  1. wlerin

    wlerin Next Girls

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2012
    Oshimen:
    Taniguchi Megu
    @souchan48 Just because they don't respond the way you want them to doesn't mean they don't care. And most? Not hardly. We'll see how things stand in the next round, but applications are unlimited from round 3 onwards and even despite that Gatanee is already selling much worse than usual.
     
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  2. Dill

    Dill Next Girls

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2017
    Oshimen:
    Techi
    Mofu spoke.
    And then other people spoke about how girls should protect themselves and record conversations instead of pretend mngmnts and fans behave like freaking humans and not as*holes for once.
    It really seems too much to ask.

    https://twitter.com/speranzom/status/1094275610485100548

    https://twitter.com/qc_bb/status/1094571666146033665

    From my point of view @wetpantsu just said the truth. Sad as it is
    And from my point of view, people who are happy because teathers keep being full and people whom acutally attend and give their money to NGT are part of the problem and one of the reasons stuff like this and worse will keep happening.

    Edìit: added links and corrected the mistake. I write Maho name in default by now lol
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
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  3. Theworld

    Theworld Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2019
    People with bad takes, were you born yesterday? Do you live in a single variable world? It's like you can't understand things can be mutually exclusive. And now you are making it about a morality play when it's people caring about their oshimen. Since when is caring about a person you care about a bad thing now? You can care about who YOU want, let other people care about who THEY want. Anyone who doesn't spend every waking moment pushing this is now a bad person and a part of the problem. Yea ok, the hypocrisy is ridiculous.

    Most wotas actually live modest lives and some go into debt and do insane amount of baito just so they can make their oshimen's goals come true, so honestly you can take your morality and shove it. And yea, you know what, I'm not going to boycott and hurt the workers of Starbucks because their CEO is dumb, because the CEO is already rich enough and can give less than two cents. I'm actually glad the boycott crowd is obviously a loud minority and people that actually don't go in the first place.

    And how many actually gave two cents about Maho other than cisalpine before this began? How many actually went to Maho hs or two shots like me? The faux outrage bandwagoning just sickens me.
     
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  4. primermicarrucha

    primermicarrucha Future Girls

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2019
    people who don't share your level of fandom aren't allowed to be more upset or feel differently about this than you? i think your rage is misdirected here.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 11, 2019
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  5. lunakitten

    lunakitten Kenkyuusei Stage48 Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2015
    What the hell is going on in this thread? :wall:
     
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  6. Dirkkun

    Dirkkun Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2014
    "There's a systematic problem and we need to hurt AKS until they fix it, even if it hurts the members for now, so that members can be safe and happy in the future."

    VS.

    "There's no systematic problem as the attack was a fluke, AKS are incompetent but we should only put pressure that will not hurt the members on them."
     
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  7. Theworld

    Theworld Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2019
    This is a mischaracterization. You are already hoping people will go in one direction by putting a positive note at the end. How do you know it will happen again in the second case? What is this systemic issue we have to fix? If you are talking about free association of idols with people outside of work, then I don't agree. Sure some girls take the job more seriously than others, but it is pretty draconian to control people's lives outside of work. The irony is that those that constantly reject the love ban ( free association with people outside work) are the first ones to want the rules enforced now that something has happened. If you are saying this is systemic, you would need to provide more than one instance.

    Also how can they be safe and happy in the future if there is no group to go back to? There are no less than a bunch of people here who just want to see the groups destroyed. If you know anything about how private businesses are extended credit by creditors, you would know missing one payment can lead to a snowball effect with the plug essentially pulled on the group. They are already losing cashflow from sponsors and performances. Honestly if people don't like the group then they can just stop patronizing it, no one is making them stay here.
     
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  8. primermicarrucha

    primermicarrucha Future Girls

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2019
    your idols, not one of them will be begging in the streets if no one shows up to a handshake event or two or twenty. "since when is caring about a person you care about a bad thing now? You can care about who YOU want, let other people care about who THEY want."
    let people care about idols how they want, then. don't expect everyone to ignore things about the industry they don't like because you are really afraid of something changing. i don't want anyone else to get hurt or worse because some people are too afraid to challenge the status quo. your idea that they can only be "safe and happy" in the group is not only the opposite of reality but i think really unhealthy.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
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  9. Reveen

    Reveen Under Girls

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    Feb 16, 2013
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    Sunnyvale Trailer Park
    you started off with "argument from authority" and now moved on to "argument from extremis", what next?
     
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  10. nobodywil

    nobodywil Upcoming Girls

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2009
    Location:
    From the Islands to The Bay
    Yeah... the last time Maho had this much “attention” was her other s*xroom, I mean showroom live stream. The “debate” was if she did the “deed” or not on a live stream. [hehe]

    BTW... That video, you can still find on the interwebs. But search at your own risk. ;)
     
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  11. Big Chungus

    Big Chungus Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2019
    Oshimen:
    okaberin
    I don't see anyone saying management handled the situation well let alone suggesting their word being evidence to anything.

    Plus I don't see how it can be an extreme to think that boycotting and forcing the group to not sell will end in the group's downfall and thus the end of the girls' careers.

    Shoehorning perfectly valid arguments into fake fallacies just because some people do not feel like countering those arguments is a fallacy of its own.
     
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  12. wlerin

    wlerin Next Girls

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2012
    Oshimen:
    Taniguchi Megu
    It is not a mischaracterization of what that side believes will happen, which is really what his post is about. Of course he gets the other side wrong, but he doesn't really understand it.

    Have you considered... taking your own advice? All I see is you and wetpantsu and others bemoaning that Japanese fans don't really "care" about the idols, simply because they don't share your exact reaction to these events. (And, btw, many of them have a much better understanding of the reality than you or I do.)
     
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  13. Cisalpine88

    Cisalpine88 Next Girls

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2009
    Location:
    Italy
    Twitter:
    speranzom
    I love how you are trying to use this argument to prove that "Ahaha but who gives actually a shit, right guys?". If anything at all, it only means that I am the only one here in this place to be remotely knowledgeable on the subject and you, at the very best, can ask for questions and for more explanations on the matter from the "veterans" instead.
    By the way, I don't mean to surprise you, but if you look around you'll see the NGT48 board in its entirety has been effectively defunct since its beginning, with the exception of a couple of users carrying out their thankless jobs alone in their respective oshimen threads (that being me, Forrest Fuller, and a certain madlad who, it turns out, has me blocked on Twitter for reasons unknown).
    That reminds me, over these years I tried the best on my part to keep the place in a "suspended animation" state, but now that I have lost pretty much of my interest have fun seeing this place languish for the rest of this forum's life. It's not like I am seeing any takers around willing to volunteer, besides me.

    Oh boy, it's such a shame that the same rubberneckers didn't stick around long after that, because they missed the part where Maho eventually gave a rundown of what happened behind the scenes at the time -- and man, how tragically incompetent Imamura proved himself to be at handling even this previous case.
    This started with Imamura getting mad directly at Maho, of all people, after the viral video being spread around (rather than at the Twitter user who cut it and spread the rumor in the first place, as it should be). One episode had him shouting at her "Do you have any idea of how much trouble you're getting me into?", to give a rough idea.
    Another thing is that, since the stream happened in a hotel room and it had security cameras set up inside, that meant Maho asked for at least the recordings to be played somewhere so she could clear her name, but Imamura outright rejected taking any action and simply went "enough of that, already".
    That of course didn't help, the stress about her reputation being associated with the false rumors connected to that clip was so much that during the same period Maho went through eating disorder and even fainted, having to be carried away by ambulance at some point. Eventually things got to the point that Maho got into a quarrel again with Imamura, on multiple times she requested him to let her quit the group and go back to a regular life since being the target of slander from people outside had only made it unbearable to continue working as an idol in this condition, and even then, guess what, Imamura denied her request on the reason that quitting right then "would be the same as to admit the rumors are true". And that's not even all of it, anyway.

    If anyone cares to check, more about it was told in the 2017.05.31 Showroom. There was supposed to be a YouTube video for it, but AKS seems to have remembered just around these days to place a ~global block~ (read: ban permanently from the platform) on it, after almost 1 year it has been up for viewing, by the way.
    Not that it matters anymore, though, since a clip of that specific part was also the first thing to spread around after today's case broke. Along with another infamous one from the same stream, where she recounted how Imamura went to talk with Maho about her preliminary results of the same year's Sousenkyo, only to scoff at fan's efforts because "it'll be all pointless if you don't rank in~", and when she then confronted him about the fact he had left her in a neglected state for 2 years already, he doubled down in the same derisive tone that "pushing you down is also part of my strategy~".
    That was more than enough to give everyone a rather clear understanding of the power harassment that went on behind NGT48, and set the tone for the whole public opinion. One of these days, when (if) I care enough to keep spoonfeeding people, I'll probably provide a more detailed subs of that entire segment.

    You know, there have already been enough rumors and gossips floating around about how certain members only felt deep dislike for Imamura back in the days when he was still theater manager at SKE, but that was before the coming of Showroom and they remained within the realm of rumors. Nothing comes close to the whole track record of episodes about his behavior that popped up from the talk on Maho's Showroom. Thanks to her for being outspoken about the right things, I should say.
    Knowing that and the bad blood there is with Maho, I wouldn't be even a little bit surprised if it turned out that, instead of collaborating on the assault case as he claimed just to make himself look good, he only worked on stalling any operation and covering shit up instead, provided he even bothered to do anything at all.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2019
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  14. primermicarrucha

    primermicarrucha Future Girls

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2019
    i don't recall having taken that specific stance, but it's possible i came in amidst similar posts and got mixed in with them. what i know of japanese reactions comes from a few twitter accounts often linked to in this thread. my replies are directed at the attitudes i see here, though.
     
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  15. Dirkkun

    Dirkkun Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2014
    My post earlier was just me answering lunakitten with "Two groups of idol fans are arguing." I tried to make it as neutral as possible with flourishes highlighting the main points of both side, but I guess I my english writing skills are not up to par with my intents.

    "Don't spread conspiracy theories about members, don't harass members, let idols be idols." <- What am I misunderstanding?

    I thought I was being somewhat moderate. The extremists are at least like "All 48G should disband, only then will the girls be safe" vs. "Maho should be fired for ruining the career of other girls.", or worst.

    I have a vague recollection of seeing the SKE members being really happy when Yuasa became theater manager, probably from a documentary. This makes a lot of sense now after learning how allegedly toxic Imamura is.
     
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  16. Reveen

    Reveen Under Girls

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2013
    Location:
    Sunnyvale Trailer Park
    That particular "scandal" was one of the most ridiculous and frustrating things to occur in this fandom and on this thread in particular.

    (Incidentally, I'm not sure if anyone else noticed a video on Inapooh's twitter of (presumably him) mocking that showroom video of Maho which was posted in early January, anyway that's just an aside.)


    Anyway I wanted to go back to one of the best posts on this thread,

    I think this is an excellent summation of things. I was getting into HKT at the time around Tokyo Dome when 4 members were dismissed and one resigned and I remember what a nuclear bomb it was at the time. But HKT has stayed pretty scandal free since then, I think it impressed on members that contact with fans outside the bounds of HS and concerts/stages could lead to serious consequences for them.

    I think NGT management are miscalculating things, they might keep a couple of HS sellers (for a while) if they tough things out but it will slowly poison the group going forward. There will never be a feeling of trust if the boil isn't lanced.

    True. How many times has the phrase "saving for the SSK" been uttered on this forum? How many times has it been asserted that the March/April singles of the 48-groups has been negatively affected by people saving their money for election votes? SSK operates like a black hole, sucking in huge amounts of money, distorting everything around it for about 3 months before and a couple of months afterwards.

    It's one of the issues in this case that hasn't really been focused on is the potential of certain members in NGT benefitting in the SSK from associating with yakkai wota. Shouldn't idols stand for something more idealistic than this?

    As for NGT from here, I'd like to see a lot more principle and bit less "pragmatism".
     
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  17. tuxedo_gin

    tuxedo_gin Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2016
    Location:
    Japan
    Oshimen:
    onishimomoka
    Unfortunately, capitalism has proven that greed will almost always outweigh morality. The management groups are all in it for the money - NGT's management is proving that the wellbeing of their group and girls is not as important to them as the money. I'd love to see them do the right thing in the end, but the fact that we are currently where we are, I just don't see how they get there from where they've dug themselves in.
     
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  18. souchan48

    souchan48 Future Girls

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2013
    Location:
    Oshimen: Amami Yuki
    Oshimen:
    takahashiminami
    not everyone is privileged and/or rich as you to get HS with Maho. Doesn't mean they care less about Maho.

    Think. Many people who are involved in such crime usually meet with their idols thru HS or meet-and-greet. Doesn't make them a greater person, do they?
     
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  19. Puni

    Puni Member Stage48 Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2013
    Location:
    Germany
    Oshimen:
    kashiwagiyuki
    Twitter:
    puni_2k
    I did.
    Friend of mine probably is the biggest foreign Mahohon fan on this stupid rock. He travels to JP for nearly every HS / 2-shot event and is active on twitter but hasn't an account here.

    Don't assume that it makes you a better fan just because you regularly click on 'Post Reply'...
     
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  20. wetpantsu

    wetpantsu Upcoming Girls

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2017
    This thread is turning into a disaster. Can we please keep the conversation on Maho and the safety of all NGT girls and not turn into a wota dick-measuring contest?
     
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