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NGT48 Assault Case

Discussion in 'General NGT48 Discussion' started by Cisalpine88, Jan 9, 2019.

  1. lonewolfryuu

    lonewolfryuu Kenkyuusei

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    kojimamako
    Here we go again lol!
     
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  2. MondyofAus

    MondyofAus Kenkyuusei

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    I would've thought trusting anything Bunshun or anyone that talks to them says at this point is pretty much a counter productive thing to do. These are people that make a living off of trying to ruin the lives of impressionable (read: vulnerable) young people, and very often succeed. Sashihara may have made them look like complete tools in the end but Sashihara is also a very rare beast of a woman and they picked the wrong fight on that occasion. Integrity is clearly a foreign concept to them so why should anyone take them seriously?
     
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  3. wlerin

    wlerin Next Girls

    Joined:
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    Taniguchi Megu
    They're not going to publish anything literally untrue that would open them up for a libel suit. But they will twist the hell out of everything for maximum drama and clicks.
     
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  4. rmn89

    rmn89 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2014
    probably all the 48 members signed a contract that said. "whatever happened to you, never risks the whole 48groups reputation".

    so in that case,technically, indeed maho violated their company a policy. but its the rest of the bully members and the managements who violated the "humane common sense" policy.

    go figure.
     
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  5. Arbios

    Arbios Future Girls

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    Jan 7, 2016
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    Komiyama Haruka
    glad people aren't buying their shit
     
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  6. Ashitaba

    Ashitaba Upcoming Girls

    Joined:
    May 2, 2014
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    Oshimen:
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    They are still going at it, trying to put the blame on Maho for everything?

    They deserve to burn. Just throw the whole thing in the trash.
     
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  7. gish0046

    gish0046 Upcoming Girls

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2019
    They have. They did it when they published lies about Nogi's Kitano Hinako which turned out to be a total hoax created by Kiichan antis. It was a story about her dating a Johnny's boy and bad-mouthing other Nogi members complete with fake text messages IIRC.

    They aren't at risk of a libel suit because they are just printing what their sources told them. It just happens that their sources are universally yakkai wota, stalkers, and general low-lifes.
    Which is why you should never believe anything Bunshun publishes unless the person involved comes out and admits to it or otherwise corroborates the story in some way.

    Just think about the power the that Bunshun gives to these yakkai wota.
    A hypothetical but easily possible situation: Two yakkai shitheads see an idol in public. One approaches while the other stays far away. The idol believes the first wota is a fan and talks says hi like any normal idol would. He then touches her arm or hand or stands close to her or whatever. The second wota takes a picture and then they both tell her that she has to be nice to them and do what they say or else they give the pictures to Bunshun and say that he's her boyfriend. What is she going to do when her entire career is at stake?

    This is effectively what happened to NGT. These yakkai wota had a connection at Bunshun through Inapooh and management and the members all knew it. So the girls allowed themselves to be used so as not to risk their careers, and since the yakkai then had damaging info on the members, management treated them like kings, too.

    This is why you should never pay Bunshun any mind ever.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2019
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  8. wlerin

    wlerin Next Girls

    Joined:
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    Oshimen:
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    But in this case "X told us Y" is literally true. Doesn't say anything about the truth of Y. Not saying we should take anything they write seriously.

    I didn't know about that incident though, so thanks.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2019
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  9. Cisalpine88

    Cisalpine88 Next Girls

    Joined:
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    Italy
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    speranzom
    Since we have come so far and since there's people interested, I might as well continue by posting the other two parts of Takkentaro's feature on the AKS lawsuit just to show how they are trying to spin it in courtroom.

    Part 2 deals with are the "Questions from Yamaguchi-san"

    if the video does not show watch the video here
    As usual, for the translation of the lawsuit's reconstruction:
    The defendant *** (blacked out) was questioned by Miss Yamaguchi saying "About defendant *** (blacked out), what have you been communicated by the members you have consulted with?", to which he replied as follows.
    "That's not it, they didn't specifically order we should do this or that. We didn't get told to do something, but it was more of a discussion with those people advising how something would be more preferable than doing such and such, just we didn't get specifically ordered to do something from the other side, that is. And considering that when it was with others, there’s been previous times when, I, myself, had been normally meeting up with other girls, when I had met with other girls as regular, I didn't expect things would have then resulted into such panic, I mean."

    Moreover, defendant *** (blacked out) was asked by Miss Yamaguchi a question to the effect of who were those members that they were consorting and associating with, at which point he answered as follows
    "C and A; with me personally, even though this isn't a direct acquaintance, there's also D -- and, well, E too.
    Although they have nothing to do with this matter, there are then F, G, and H as well, and besides that also J."

    ◇ Harmful behavior on part of the defendants
    -
    That is to say, by combining the physical assault and the series of statements and actions on part of the defendants, there has been a harmful behavior relative to the incident at hand.

    With the defendants making admissions that there have been several other members involved into it, relative to the incident in question, as a result of such words and actions Miss Yamaguchi came to suspect that there could be other members who had a hand into the very incident case itself.

    ◇ How, with the harmful actions relative to this incident, the interests of the plaintiff were hurt, the group found itself forced to stop its activities, and the relationship of trust between members was lost
    -
    As the activities of this group presuppose a relationship of trust between members, with this incident Miss Yamaguchi came to hold misgivings and carried distrust toward other members.

    Even for the other members who became publicly and generally suspected to be have participated in said incident, such as through the broadcast of Miss Yamaguchi with the video streaming service Showroom, they too suffered a psychological shock and carried distrust towards Miss Yamaguchi. Having lost this relationship of trust between the principal members, and with it a prerequisite for the activities, the situation thus turned arduous for performing entertainment activities.

    ◇ Feeling of distrust by Miss Yamaguchi towards the plaintiff
    -
    While in a condition in which it was difficult for the essential members to carry out their entertainment activities, the plaintiff worked to dispel misgivings regarding this incident and let Miss Yamaguchi get back on feet from the incident. In order to allow entertainment activities to be performed with peace of mind, to gain understanding from Miss Yamaguchi an independent inquiry was conducted. However, concerning other members having a hand over the incident in question, there have been no proofs coming out that would be decisive.

    Afterwards, the plaintiff then let Miss Yamaguchi know on December 25, 2018 that, as for the outcome of such independent inquiry, there was no punishment that could be given to the members as they could not confirm that members had a part into such physical aggression.
    However, not only no understanding could be obtained, but as this further hurt Miss Yamaguchi emotionally, the feeling of distrust towards the plaintiff increased.

    ===

    Part 3 instead covers the "Care (lol) from AKS". And yeah, note that the "(lol)" is Takkentaro's own addition, admittedly because after all they are trying to present it as thoughtfulness when anyone can duly perceive this is just resentment on part of AKS, from the way the whole lawsuit is worded.

    if the video does not show watch the video here
    Distrust of other members towards the plaintiff
    -
    Afterwards, Miss Yamaguchi publicly disclosed the facts about such physical aggression on January 9, 2019, and made a statement hinting about other members having had a part over such an incident case itself.
    The broadcast in question was picked up widely by media and while a search for the culprits heated up on a society level, even though the plaintiff revealed to the public the facts they could get hold of, the plaintiff's safety regulations as well as the administration system was lambasted and the plaintiff received criticism from the general public. The plaintiff thus was strongly charged with the responsibility to solve this incident.

    Also, such stream broadcast, combined with how certain members were unfollowed by Miss Yamaguchi on her social network account, resulted in specific members being brought up on many media as the machinators behind this incident case, comments containing aspersions and threat-like remarks flocked in over the Internet to those members, with those certain members suffering a tremendous psychological shock.

    However, the plaintiff found oneself required to also give consideration to Miss Yamaguchi's own position. Because of the ensuing delay in taking action about these insensitive writings, this fueled distrust towards the plaintiff from those specific members.

    ◇ Halting, or otherwise changes, of part of the theater shows
    -
    Due to such harmful behavior, along with Miss Yamaguchi suffering direct psychological shock, her distrust toward both the plaintiff and the other members also mounted. Miss Yamaguchi had to suspend performances for 4 theater shows (① December 30, 2018 morning show ② Same day's afternoon show ③ January 2, 2019 afternoon show ④ January 5, 2019 morning show). Also, even for the other members, in addition to receiving an indirect psychological shock, their own distrust also mounted toward the plaintiff and Miss Yamaguchi, and with threat-like Internet messages growing more intense, since, among others, it was also necessary to guarantee the safety of the members, the plaintiff ended up cancelling the concert tour they planned, and found oneself forced to stop and change plans, as a decision.

    ◇ On holding a press conference, as well as finding ourselves forced to commission an examination by a third-party committee
    -
    The defendants were arrested by the Niigata police department on December 9, 2018, and investigations were then conducted also by said police; as such, close attention was kept by us on it. However, no other person besides the defendants were ultimately sent by the police to the prosecutor, and afterwards on December 28, 2018 this ended in a non-prosecution disposition for the defendants.
    Thus, this signifies that even according to the investigation authorities, it was judged there was no participation in the incident case itself done by the members' side, but still Miss Yamaguchi's misgivings were not cleared up.

    The plaintiff, as it is written previously, found oneself charged from the general public with the responsibility to give an explanation on all details, since the governance system of the management was criticized for its inadequateness, but since the plaintiff's internal inquiry had its own natural limitations in terms of clearing up all details on the incident, in order to gain the understanding of Miss Yamaguchi and the general public, he found oneself forced to task a third-party committee consisting of independent experts with elucidating on what the facts are.

    There, on January 14, 2019, a press conference was held by the plaintiff to announce, among other things, that there was no one prosecuted among the members themselves, that we didn’t think that there are members implicated into the physical aggression in question, and that a third-party committee would be set up and entrusted with clearing up on the full details, while the members security would be strengthened.

    Moreover, after the third-party committee was formed, on May 18, 2019 the research report papers were then delivered to the plaintiff.
    According to the research report too, it was ascertained how it couldn’t be determined that members of this group had themselves participated into the incident case.

    However, even so we could not obtain Miss Yamaguchi's understanding.

    Miss Yamaguchi appeared to be requesting for measures to be taken on members who had also been maintaining personal private consortings with the defendants and other individuals close to them, not just for their implications within the incident itself.
    However, on part of the plaintiff, we cannot afford to hand down disciplinary measures on members -- about whom it is unclear to us what extent of consortings there exists -- without evidences that are definitive; and even in the event there would be evidences that are definitive, when this is merely personal private consortings, we would be in no position to take disciplinary measures concerning that, from a legal standpoint and that of the safeguard of privacy of the individual members.

    Although we explained it to Miss Yamaguchi times and times again asking for her understanding, we couldn't gain the understanding of Miss Yamaguchi, with the distrust of Miss Yamaguchi toward the plaintiff further increasing.

    Later, on March 22, 2019 the plaintiff held a second press conference, based on the third-party committee's research report.

    During the conference, as misgivings on such case failed to get cleared up, several tweets raising criticism at the management were then posted by Miss Yamaguchi, whose distrust she had toward the plaintiff grew increasingly stronger, and with all that the credibility of the plaintiff over the general public plummeted sharply.

    Other small observations worth making:
    1. The words rendered in red both in the translation and the transcript are what Takkentaro says are the passages that irked him the most. In fact, he even ends the third part saying "I haven't ever come across a document that ticked me off as much as reading it. AKS is called a black agency, but considering it fully, it is so. A business that doesn't understand people's sentiments cannot sell dreams to other people".
    Needless to say that the whole lawsuit reads like partly self-defense for one's mistakes, partly like petty revenge. In any case it reads like anything but a civil lawsuit. As Takkentaro notes, it is also strewn with loaded expressions like "Yamaguchi's misgivings" and "(gain) Yamaguchi's understanding", Takkentaro notes "as if AKS were performing some brainwashing", but more importantly it puts "find oneself forced to ..." ("...sezaru wo enai") in the least appropriate places, as if they wouldn't have otherwise ever bothered to if it weren't for the masses and the pesky netizens putting pressure on them. Geez...
    -
    2.
    One important revealing in all this is that it turns out an internal inquiry was indeed carried out on the relationship between the members and the yakkais while Imamura was still in charge. Did it happen exactly as Bunshun told back in February, via an inquiry on LINE and a final pardon on the multiple members found consorting with them (cool, now I have to go back finding the plain text that was shown on the Bunshun broadcast)? One thing is that while the stance by AKS is "as long as there's no discernible criminal complicity, it's all a-okay", the scope of it surely went beyond that in reality.
    In any case, this puts another date on the calendar: December 25 2018. Which explains more than a couple of things that happened on that day.
    It explains why, beginning the SR stream at well after 11 PM, Mofu and Nakamura told they were held back by "various circumstances", with Mofu looking shaken as if she was on the verge of crying or she just about ended crying.
    https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1122671858300653568/pu/vid/640x360/CNZD60SWHaf-XBNS.mp4
    It explains Miharu beginning her SR stream also a few minutes before midnight excusing herself because of "there's been various circumstances today" that had kept her at the workplace so long, which ended up forcing her to take a room in the backstage.
    https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1165439421497430017/pu/vid/640x360/XDj1yvdT8y08MERi.mp4
    It also explains Maho's various references to Christmas during in her Likes and other social media, such as her mobame sent just before the teams final show: «I chose to make that disclosure because I did hate that the members were being left to suffer. After the Christmas theater stage was over, we all cried together. "I really did want to hold a Christmas party", even today we had a talk about that.»
    It also explains Maho changing her Twitter profile to "If there is a Santa out there, please give us a place where to feel at ease and be able to conduct our idol activities safely", as people noticed as early as 8 AM on that same day, suggesting that the first news of it might have come in rather early into the day...
    http://akb48taimuzu.livedoor.biz/archives/54639442.html
    This is clearly an announcement to which all of the members were present and were made to know, so where were the Team NIII members during all of this? Boy, oh boy...
    The funny thing is that this lawsuit/self-defense goes as far as to cook up an excuse for why certain members (although it makes it seem like it's all of them) showed no concern on Maho's condition, pinning it on the *indirect psychological shock*, but as I see they already know by themselves how to act like they give no fuck of others.
    -
    3. One more thing related to the above is: if "there was no punishment that could be given" (as the so-called lawsuit says) and "regarding consorting, [...] even though an investigation seems to have been conducted, no official measures were taken" (page 22 of that third-party report), then what about the suspension of Hagiri that happened right on the day after? Because I can't think of anything more official than putting up a notice right on the NGT48 website clearly stating it's for a violation of the group activity rules. Something clearly doesn't add up, huh...
    -
    4. I love how there's no signs of a background check having ever been performed on these yakkais, or even condemnation of their behavior besides letting out the little shame that they have relationships with other members. What transpires through it is instead that typical out-of-touch boomer mentality where the Internet is a bad and scary place as the people who populate it. I don't remember "media" ever "widely" bringing attention to the unfriended members on Twitter as "conspirators". And the incident was the most reported topic on net news in the first half of 2019 and received the third most extensive coverage in the cultural section on television during the same period, mind you, so you have to compare it against more than 13 solid hours of TV coverage to have a point.
    Even less tenable is blaming the cancellation of a tour nobody had even heard of on "threats on the Internet". How much of what was posted over these 8 months on the Interwebs remotely qualifies as a safety threat, compared to condemnation of the agency and legitimate concerns? Because I haven't seen anything. For being more scared of netizens than yakkais (who netizens did most of the background check on than AKS did), AKS comes across as ridiculous and myopic.
    -
    5. For being nominally a lawsuit against yakkais, it's funny how it makes so little use of the voice recordings. The fact that it pretty much confirms that the apocryphal Shincho transcript is close to genuine also shows that all the most inconvenient quotes were left out: Maho being more interested in who passed the informations to them than a "conspiracy" as AKS is restricting it to, the fact that both Maho and Mofu still believe the room belongs to Tano until the time of the incident, and Maho remarking how "Previously C and [fan's nickname] were there together too". Hmmm...
    -
    6. Takkentaro also provided a list of the "evidences" that AKS intends to bring to the courtroom, and what a laugh it is:
    Included inside for starters are "5ch, 2ch, and Web Archive screenshots". Yup.
    https://twitter.com/siriustear1/status/1166008130955689984
    One, for some reason, is a transcript of Maho's January 8 Showroom copied from this blog of all places, because they sure can't be bothered to write it down themselves.
    By the way, I remember Teppo-senpai, the blog writer, as being on my mutual list, I think I had even interacted a few times during this period. He's also a cool guy who after Riripon's scandal had been shitting on her on and off on social media, the last post in his blog does indeed draws a connection between that and what Maho wished the group to be, too bad it flew over AKS's head.
    https://twitter.com/siriustear1/status/1166006934400466949
    Another one are printed pages of Nishigata Marina's tweet from 2019/01/08 23:03 and Tano Ayaka's tweet from 2019/01/08 14:10, with quoted (read: cherrypicked) replies from it. Is it what they want to bring there as "Internet threats"? Good luck, then. On another note, maybe this is the same they wanted to do with Kato's Instagram too by leaving it open, too bad that after the Ogino self-pity media campaign (spoiled by Kato's Instagram on the same day, in fact) everyone wised up to what AKS intention was (playing the victim) and so in a day the comment section turned into multi-layered, ironical shitposting instead, stretching for over 110k posts.
    https://twitter.com/siriustear1/status/1166026296729583617
    https://twitter.com/siriustear1/status/1166026696975249408

    Another "evidence" is a random amateur matome website I never heard of, namely this page taken from it titled "Who is involved in the NGT48 assault incident? Tano Ayaka and Nishigata Marina denied, but...", which basically just shows the ridiculous self-excuses tweets posted by the two after the first Bunshun broadcast, the way Tano *acknowledged* on SR those yakkais involved in the assault, and also mentions how Nakai was also used as a scapegoat (as it in fact even states inside the article) by Bunshun. I dare say that it's almost too tame and incomplete for an article written in early January, but the focus is how these yakkais are seemingly involved in stalker harassment and collecting addresses from who knows what sources, eventually shifting the focus on Inapooh & pals.
    Is this the evidence they want to bring up as the fabled "media bringing the members up as conspirators"? Ironically, the same matome article ends on this note: "Inapooh is clearly the greatest evil in there, but even the management should be held responsible for having left such an individual unchecked. Inapooh is currently being banned from entering events of other groups, among which Nogizaka46. It follows that, as it can be imagined, there must've been a particularly rotten management system in NGT48".
    Not the best evidence you want to present in court to prove you are the victim, AKS...
    https://twitter.com/siriustear1/status/1166022241185718272
    Also, of course, not a single tweet from the circle of yakkai wotas, which is what had actually been the subject of scrutiny from, you know, those evil netizens, is even taken into consideration, despite the fact that the other side of the civil litigation being the yakkais and their "harmful actions". If it looks strange, it's because it is.
    -
    7. The last part of the civil lawsuit files really kills it for me. Somehow, in a moment of lucidity, AKS does realize what Maho wants and what she recognizes as the cause of such an incident. Yet the plaintiff, aka AKS, candidly admits that, on top of having no clue about the extent of the consortings, they are in no position to do it because *it's their private liberties*. How does it work in their favor in this litigation?
    Now, someone wants to excuse it by pointing out that the love ban rule doesn't exist either, but those are two separate issues that are indeed treated as such by many groups, so don't let anyone mix the two together for this reason. Kamen Joshi and other Alice Project acts, to cite just one, allow their members to have relationship, but still ban private contacts with fans under any circumstances, which still resulted in many of their members getting axed for it.
    Are you telling me that an underground idol group, as much as it's the "strongest" one, has better and stricter policies than what appears to be a "national" idol group (although in the case of NGT48, it's more of an average gotouchi idol group with a slight coating of paint over it)? Pathetic.

    And that's all for now.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2024
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  10. EinhanderX

    EinhanderX Next Girls

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2015
    Since we're talking about underground idol group policy, ever wondered why despite the stricter policy, there are still axed member there?

    As @gish0046 pointed out, most of the time, it's the fans who initiated private contact first. I mean, what benefit Kamen Joshi member has in initiating it with their career at stake?. The member could refuse indeed, but then you got "Kitano Hinako black campaign"-alike if the refusal agitate those fans.
    And as far as I know, not even the mainstream Sakamichi series could control or regulate their fans harmful action. This "immunity" that fans has, leave a loophole that I don't think Kamen Joshi policies fully resolve yet. At best, they cut the weakest link tied with the policy here: Their member.

    AKS is outdated for not preparing anticipating this. But with issue still at hand, other idol group, even outside 48G, has latent risk to fall in the same pitfall, if they are not careful with handling their fans.
     
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  11. LxC280

    LxC280 Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
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    Oshimen:
    Friendly reminder
    If you believe bunshun about their news about a member scandal, so you must believe their news about Maho too..
     
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  12. Falx1984

    Falx1984 Kenkyuusei

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    Mar 13, 2017
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    Tokyo
    Oshimen:
    fukagawamai
    I'm not sure where you're seeing people saying they believe Bunshun about anything?
     
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  13. Cisalpine88

    Cisalpine88 Next Girls

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2009
    Location:
    Italy
    Twitter:
    speranzom
    That Bunshun was dubious and unreliable about this case was something everyone is well aware of since day one, all one needs to do is take a look at what they passed off for exclusive scoops and see the amount of wrong details they had about the background (Tano moving out 1 year and a half before the incident?!) and their reconstruction of the events of the incident (Remember when they made it look as if it was Maho who named those 8 member names as if she was acting out of prejudice? Someone here still took such as true). This is why you don't let a tabloid like Bunshun make claims over a criminal case (anyone who knows Japanese should see the "L.A. Doubt" case of 1981 as a textbook example of why you shouldn't ever again).

    This time is different anyway, and a far more problematic question to boot. This is a transcript of an audio recording of a private parents meeting during which Yoshinari took to the stage and did most of the talking. I have no doubt that this info was handed directly to Bunshun and made to appear under the guise of an "oopsie" or a "leak". Even the day of the release was not casual as it was made to coincide with Maho's first media appearance since her graduation, although it had no effect on it (unfortunately for them, I should say).
    For one thing in the same transcript Yoshinari says that AKS has no intention to hold another press conference anymore and that they want to settle everything in court (as long as judges are willing to let their courtroom be used as a theater stage for this stunt...), so you can bet this is their way to get informations out.

    Someone already told it before me, but the title of the Bunshun article is misleading. This is the actual quote from the talk, from which it was extrapolated in a deceptive way, so read it for yourselves:

    第1回目の公判の直前に、先方の弁護士からこちらの方に連絡が入りました。『先方は、和解をしたいというふうに言っています。AKSに対して、今いるメンバーに対して、謝罪文を書きます。それを、公表してくれても構いません。なので、訴えを取り下げてください』という内容でした。まあ、彼らの言い分としては『そもそもAKSや今いるメンバーと争いをしたい訳ではないのです。ただ、今回の事件は、事件じゃないのです。僕は、もともと繋がっていたのは山口さんです』そういった内容でした。今現時点で、我々としては和解には応じません。何故ならば、もしここで仮に和解をしたとしても、全く彼らと関係性のない運営なのですけど、世間的には犯人と繋がっているのじゃないかとか、AKSが裏で手を回しているのじゃないかみたいな憶測も流れているので、『基本的には和解はしません。全て裁判で公の場で、決着をつけます』。というふうに、先方の弁護士には返しています。
    Shortly before the first court sitting, a call came in from the attorney on the other side. The content was "The other side says that they want to have an out-of-court settlement. They would write an apology statement towards AKS and the members currently there. They don't mind even if it is made public. Please withdraw the lawsuit". Well, their argumentation is that "For one thing, we don't mean to have a fight with AKS and the members currently in there. Point is, today's incident really wasn't an incident. Yamaguchi was someone I was consorting with since before", that's the content. At the moment, we didn't answer to their out-of-court settlement proposal. The reason is, even if we even were to have an out-of-court settlement, even though the management has nothing to do with them, speculations around the public would spread that we have connections with the criminals, that AKS is pulling strings from behind, so we replied back to the other side's attorney that "As a matter of principle, we won't have settlements. We'll decided everything in the public on court".

    Not the first time that Bunshun uses this tactic even regarding the same case, either. Back in late January Bunshun published another article where, in the headlines, Imamura was claimed to have called Nakai "kuro".
    Except that in the audio recording that was provided with it (a talk with a fan at the Q&A booth, showing complaints about the way one yakkai gundan acted at handshake events, the same which Nakai's quasi-boyfriend Rikiya is part of), Imamura clearly meant that Nakai was black "in terms of personality", not to mean guiltiness.
    Despite the misleading headline, most of the people's attention quickly went toward the actual relevant statement hidden in the same recording. Specificially, when talking about the gundan, the one where Imamura went on like this: "I'll go have a drink with them together, since they have invited me. I'll try taming them. Even them are fans so it'll be bad to expel them". The more you know...
    Though it actually doesn't change the fact that the talk inside of this parents meeting was insane for various other numbers of reasons, when you start scratching under the surface. Maybe I'll return to contribute with others, but for now I'll just go pick some choice quotes, the ones that attracted the most discussion these days...

    ---
    One thing that is interesting to note is the lingering rancor about Maho that oozes from every other statement.
    You can surely tell from this one that Yoshinari sure holds some pretty utilitarian views, though I doubt it counts as a compliment when it comes to dealing with human beings. In other words "Glad one side of the controversy is gone, whichever it is":

    被害者といわれるメンバーと加害者かもしれないと言われているメンバー、この両方を抱えてしまっているが故に、その両方を抱えながら、運営としては背中を打たれるしかないっていうそういう状況でした。これ、片方が外にいれば、思いっきり戦えたし、思いっきり守れたしっていう事ができたと思うのですけど、それを両方抱えてしまったが故に、このような対応になってしまった事を、皆様方には深く申し訳なく思っております。
    To find ourselves having inside both sides -- the member considered to be the victim and the members said to be maybe the offenders in it -- for the management it only meant that we were caught in this situation where, for as long as we kept both of them inside with us, we kept getting ourselves lashed in the back and nothing else due to it. So, on that matter… I would say that, if only one of these two sides would have rather been out of here, then in this case we would have managed to, say, get to fight away to the bitter end, to defend on to the bitter end. Yet, since instead we wound up having both sides of the question inside, we unfortunately came to take such other kind of approach, as a result, and I feel deeply desolated toward everyone about that.
    -

    About the following one, if there's a more direct way to say "Hold on, we are in the process of manipulating our personal-use media at the expenses of Maho" without stating it outright, someone please tell me, because I don't know. Needless to say the whole exchange is a nasty one:

    吉成社長「えー、たぶん”山口真帆信者”っていうのがネットの中ではある一定数存在し続けるのではなかろうかとは思っています。ただ、何となくそのNGTのメディアの記事というものを皆さんご覧になっていると思うのですけど、少しずつ少しずつ、論調が変わってきているなというのも感じて頂いているとは思ってるんですけども……。まあそれっていうのは、皆さんある程度『そうなんじゃない?』っていうのを、段々だんだん気づき始めている状況です。だから、全部が全部その”白”と”黒”がひっくり返るまでいくかはわかりませんが、少なくとも今のメディアの方々が全部じゃないですよ、全部じゃないですけどある一定数の方々は、言われもない誹謗中傷を受けているNGTの今いるメンバーに対して、同情もしてくれているので、そういった方を少しずつ少しずつ、増やしていきたいなってふうに思っております」
    President Yoshinari: "So, well, I think there may still exist one certain set number of these «Yamaguchi Maho's believers» that still keep hanging around over the Internet. Except, I guess everyone of you is already taking a look at those articles on NGT from the media, but I can feel that little by little they are changing in tone... Well, we are in a situation where even all of you, to a certain extent, are beginning to notice gradually, how "Aren’t things so?". Therefore, I'm not sure if we'll effectively reach the point where what is considered “white” and what is considered instead “black” will get reversed entirely. But, at the very least, while it's not all of the people in the media right now that are like that -- not the whole people, there’s a certain number of them feeling sympathy for the members who are in NGT right now, receiving gratuitous disparagements. I want to help get these people growing in number little by little, then."

    保護者1「では、じゃあ今新潟の、例えば新潟日報さんとか、新潟の人たちに、やっぱりこういうズレたおかしな話がずっと流れてきて、新潟日報さんはある意味、そこのAKS、NGTが悪であるという報道をずっとされてきた訳じゃないですか。で、新潟県民の方もそれを見て、あれおかしいなって、スポンサーも離れられて、そういう所でも同じような話とかはされて今後はいくのですか?」
    Parent #1: "For that matter, right now, the ones over in Niigata -- like for example Niigata Nippo and such outlets, they're still always spreading to the people in Niigata those weird stories that are off... I mean, in a certain way, didn't Niigata Nippo always keep reporting AKS and NGT as being bad? So, that means even the people of the Niigata prefecture would look at all this and think how weird things are, and then sponsors would also step away... Do we plan to keep going on, with these same stories being told about us even over there too?"

    吉成社長「既に、そういった話は、ここまで詳しい話かは別としてある程度の話はこちらの方からはお伝えしております」
    President Yoshinari: "This is a question that we already -- well, leaving aside whether it was discussed down to these details, to a certain degree this is a question that our side has brought to their attention."

    To expand: this exchange really has it all that is wrong with AKS. Openly using this tone of condescendence to refer to Maho and their supporters/long time fans while in her absence and especially many months after graduation, seeing them as the enemies to their purposes, is sad. Trying to downplay things by using the argument that it's "people on the Internet" (because who uses the Internet these days? ...Nerds?!) in this day and age, on the other hand, reeks of that boomer mentality I referred to before.
    Not wanting to make more speculations than necessary, but that term she uses so naturally to describe them can be only seen popping up from accounts who tended to act apologist of the management and bashing of Maho over these months. Not saying they already did try using Internet sockpuppets to unsuccessfully change the Internet opinion while Maho was still signed up, but from seeing some patterns chances are they did.
    Also, I've got to wonder who that unnamed parent in there is, and what there is about Niigata Nippo that pisses them off that much, because to my knowledge they have never written anything slanderous.
    Incidentally, this meeting happened on the day prior to the reopening of the theater and there was no better example of what they were hinting to do, so in light of this if you took at face value any of the tearful appeals that happened on that day and the way certain media handled it subsequently, let it be known that you have been played like a violin.

    ---
    The second thing to note is just how obsessed Yoshinari seems to be about wanting to know the reason for the non-prosecution, because it takes up a good portion of the meeting.
    This quote is especially funny because just one moment before in the same discussion she denied ever making such a statement, then she corrects herself and ends up acknowledging it:

    あとその『不起訴でなければ事件じゃない』(※冒頭の通り、卒業公演の壇上で山口は『不起訴になったということで事件じゃないという事だといわれ……』と発言している)っていうのもまさか私そんなふうに言っていると思ってなかったんですけど、実は言っていたんです私。彼女との会話を録音したものを全部文字起こしさせて調べてみたら、確かに世間一般的に言えばそうなってしまうっていう言い方で、それは伝えていました。
    Also, about that statement that "If it ended without prosecution, then it's not a crime incident" ([Bunshun's note:] * As per in the introduction, Yamaguchi told on stage during her graduation theater show: «I got told "Since it ended without prosecution, then it means it's not a crime incident"») -- I didn't possibly think at first I had said that in such a way. But it turns out that, in fact, I did actually say so, myself. I previously had a complete transcript made of the recordings of the talks I had with her [Maho], and once I went back to check that, sure enough, if it were to be put in a general colloquial way that was how it would be like, the manner it was expressed. That is something I did declare, actually, in that way.
    -

    This one is the most interesting and serious part of all, honestly, as well as the biggest news. What Yoshinari reports as if it were a direct talk with Maho at the very best happened indirectly, if at all as described. But even accounting for some misunderstandings in transmission, the question here is what kind of interference could such a member have had in the decision. For one thing, can a third party even serve as a factor in lowering culpability down to non-prosecution? Yes (and one of the replies in there seems to be on the right track):

    で、そこでなんですけど、ただ私が初めて山口さんと山口さんの親族と会った時に、いちばん疑問に思った事、腑に落ちなかった事がありました。それは、不起訴になった理由です。彼女の言っている事が全て本当なのであれば、なんでこの件が不起訴になったのだろう。それはどうしても私は納得がいかなくて。で、不起訴の理由を聞いたのですね。そうしたら、彼女が言うには『犯人が初犯であった。そして、非常に反省している。3つ目が、第三者のメンバーの意思があった為この3つが揃って初めて不起訴になったのです。そのうちのどれか一つが欠けていたら起訴できていたのですけど、この3つが揃ったから不起訴になりました』というふうに彼女は主張していました。おかしいなというふうに思ったんですね。第三者のメンバーの意思があったから不起訴。
    Also, while at it, when I met with Yamaguchi-san and Yamaguchi-san's relatives for the first time, there was one thing I thought as most enigmatic, one thing I couldn't wrap my head around. That was the reason why it ended up in a non-prosecution. If all that she says is correct then how come this case resulted in a non-prosecution? That's something that, no matter what, I couldn't come to terms with. So, I asked for the reason behind the non-prosecution. At this point, as per what she said: "It's because this was the first time the perpetrators committed a criminal offence. And, in addition, they showed great regret afterwards. The third one has to do with the intention(/consideration) of a member(s) who is a third party to this. It's with all three of these factors there at one time, that it subsequently resulted in a non-prosecution. If just a single one out of them had been absent, it could have been prosecuted, but because all three were present at once, it resulted in a non-prosecution" -- that's the way she claimed. I thought it was bizarre. This fact that the intention(/consideration) of a member(s) who is a third party to it is why it was non-prosecuted.
    -

    This last episode, coming right after the above, is just hilariously asinine instead, to the point that even Bunshun has to poke fun at Yoshinari's lack of knowledge by adding a note. So she went all the way to disturb authorities who have nothing to do with prosecutions, and then when she didn't get told, she later ends up acting as if Maho deceived her despite Maho taking her exactly where Yoshinari wanted to go. With this you can simply understand how little she knows about law matters...:

    なので私は彼女に、『どうしても不起訴になった理由が納得いかないから一緒に新潟県警に行ってください』と、まあ新潟県警に一緒に行ってくれれば、被害者と一緒だったら本当のその不起訴理由っていうのが直接聞けるかもしれないと思って、なので彼女は『わかりました』と言って、アポイントを取ってくれたのですけども、その翌週だったかな、新潟まで来て連れていかれたのは新潟県警ではなく、新潟警察で生活安全課の方々とか、そういう事件とは関わりのない人達が出てこられて(※実際に被害届は新潟警察署にだされ生活安全課の刑事が事件を担当していた)、まあ不起訴理由はどうせ聞けないなっていうふうに思ったのですけれども、一応私としては儀式のように『不起訴理由を教えてください』というふうに尋ねたんですけれども、結局一般的にはみたいな話を終始されて、細かな事件の内容については、教えていただけませんでした。
    As such, I then told to her "No matter how much I try, I really can't get to comprehend the reason it ended up in a non-prosecution, let's go together to the Niigata prefectural police", thinking that if I went over there together, if I went there along with the victim then I would get to directly hear the true reason for such non-prosecution. And then she replied "Understood", we scheduled a meeting but -- was it the week after? -- the ones who were brought there all the way to Niigata weren't the Niigata prefectural police but someone totally unrelated to the case, some people working in the Community Safety Division at the Niigata police ([Bunshun's note:] * In reality the victim’s offense report was filed at the Niigata police department, and it's the police detectives at the Community Safety Division that then handled the crime case). Sooo, I thought how I wouldn't get to hear the reasons for non-prosecution in the end, but for a try, as a ritual question, I tried to inquire like "Would you please tell me the reason for the non-prosecution?". But after all they gave a broad and generalized explanation from beginning to end, and they refused to let me know of the precise details of the incident.

    ---
    Some people were right in saying that for a family meeting, it has the same creepy vibes of an indoctrination seminar like those of Amway or other such multi-level schemes.
    Or more appropriately, it sounds more like just a chance for AKS to talk behind Maho's back, basically a proverbial case of "when the cat is away the mice do play". After all in the same talk Yoshinari does mention how "there were quite lots of members afraid of Maho, inside NGT" (山口さんの事を怖がっているメンバーが結構NGT内の中にいた), when still thinking about making arrangements to let her return in the group, that is before the graduation announcement at the Teams' senshuuraku...
    Anyway, the Bunshun article concludes by saying they contacted Ken-On about an opinion on the statements made by Yoshinari in that *meeting*. They outright rejected the statement of the yakkais, and about the talk about the "three reasons for non-prosecution" they denied such a discussion with Maho ever happening directly (another talk they explain never happened directly is about a story in which, also according to Yoshinari's claims, Maho told she had evidences with her about other members consorting with fans, but she had never presented them to Yoshinari at her request, saying it would have been swept under the rug anyway).
    Not hard to imagine that any of this talk never happened directly, actually, because even Sashihara brought up on TV there was one staff member acting as a middleman for the communications with the management.
    For what it's worth, seems Bunshun also contacted AKS, and the criminal group via a representative (?!?!), but told they never received a response on the other hand.

    I'm not bothering to translate all 19 pages of it, especially without being sure of how much of what Yoshinari tells is in fact reliable, but if anyone wishes to trudge through the whole transcript, feel free to access it over here. The audio clip (shorter and with parents voices missing) is in here, take it while it's still hot.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2023
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  14. SaitoWinterStar

    SaitoWinterStar Upcoming Girls Stage48 Donor

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    Thank you @Cisalpine88 for your translations and your analysis. I've been continuing to translate the daily summaries on my site, and while I try to keep an open mind that the truth can always be more complicated (and less logical) that you would expect, the latest Yoshinari "revelations" are really making my head hurt. The idea that both Maho and these guys are now master manipulators, but that at the same time she would have essentially been setting herself up to be exposed by going public (if she was really in a relationship with the guys that assaulted her)... I've been running around in circles trying to find some grain of truth in this madness, something that would let at least the agreed-upon facts fall into place. Maybe Bunshun is right and everyone is lying about everything — at least that is consistently contradictory. I can't help but think Yoshinari is going with the Dead Cat Strategy.

    In any case, here are a couple recent translation excerpts relevant to the case:

    From https://saitowinterstar.com/archives/1011
    • From Takken Taro
      • “Reconstructing the NGT48 complaint from memory “The possibility the offenders had planned ahead” No.4″
      • “Reconstructing the NGT48 complaint from memory “AKS, gang of the black rose (black heart)” Last part, No.5″
      • Takken's video No.4
        • “Even after that, Yamaguchi’s doubts about the case were not dispelled”
          • This phrase actually appears over and over and over again.
          • Isn’t this really the thing they want to emphasize at the AKS trial?
          • Despite explaining it to Yamaguchi many times, her doubts weren’t dispelled, and they weren’t able to gain her understanding
          • Takken repeatedly says essentially: Isn’t that what AKS wants to say was the true reason they incurred these damages?
        • AKS: “Yamaguchi graduated because her suspicions could not be dispelled”
          • Takken: But I think it’s something different. Really they wanted to drive her out without resolving it.
        • Paying attention to the “matter of the act of assault” is essential
          • It seems to me things such as the seizing of Yamaguchi’s face made this violent incident an “act of assault”, but the AKS complaint differs
          • In the complaint, in addition to the act of violence, it’s a “series of actions” that makes it an assault
          • That series of actions included, “Other members’ names being brought up”
          • With the offenders bringing up other members’ names, Yamaguchi’s suspicions couldn’t be dispelled, and by their logic this was the reason AKS incurred damages
        • AKS: “The offenders planned ahead of time that, in the event they were caught, they would give out members’ names”
          • They consider it normal, when cornered, to be made to confess
          • Takken: AKS is saying it was also planning to reveal the names
        • “When they were caught and made to confess that they had been messing around with other members, those members were with other girls~”
          • That inspired Yamaguchi’s suspicions, and gave rise to her misunderstanding as to whether other members were involved
          • AKS claims that the relationship between Yamaguchi, the members, and AKS broke down, and that the difficulties the management faced were brought about by this pre-planned illegal activity
        • If by chance they were caught, then at that time they would bring up the members’ names
          • [AKS] claims that with that, [the offenders] thought that they would emotionally shock Yamaguchi, and would drive cracks into the relationships between the members
        • Attorneys do not write complaints alone. They wrote while listening to Yoshinari, etc.
          • I wonder was Yoshinari drunk, or just taking happy pills?

    From https://saitowinterstar.com/archives/1019
    • Bunshun publishes another article on Yoshinari’s reckless remarks
      • There’s a huge firestorm over the constantly shifting details completely contradicting the report and what has been established
      • The story has zero credibility as it doesn’t even take on how AKS’s complaint is full of resentment towards Maho
      • https://i.imgur.com/S6unjY0.jpg
      • Immediately after the parents meeting staff were commenting loudly that, “as expected, that was awkward”
        • It is obviously seen as a problem that details related to the trial have been publicly disclosed
        • The new order of AKS has been fortified with Yoshinari yes-men and people without practical experience, so concerns that are voiced do not reach the top
        • President Yoshinari has no interest in holding interviews
        • This is because of the trauma of that press conference that was showered by ire from the public due to Maho’s critical tweets during the interview portion
        • About requesting confirmation of the facts concerning “connections with the group of offenders”
          • Maho replied via her new agency: “There is no truth to that”
          • We asked AKS about this, but there was no answer as of press time
      • Yoshinari explains why the incident occurred “after persistently rejecting the “claims of the offenders””
        • “Yamaguchi was in a relationship with the male offender before the incident, and that was the origin of this, breaking up with the guy, then wanting to ignore him”
        • “This guy, finding himself not able to get in touch with her, causes the incident by suddenly arriving at her room intending to have a face-to-face discussion”
        • Many members, nodding their heads with Yoshinari’s words, appeared to be in agreement
        • We again requested confirmation from AKS as to the truth of these new revelations, but were unable to get a response as of press time
        • The decision to make this “new information” public will be an essential clue to understanding the truth of what occurred between Yamaguchi and the offenders
      • From Bunshun Online: “AKS president Yoshinari once again reveals in a speech that, “The origin of the incident was that NGT’s Yamaguchi Maho broke up with a guy, then ignored him””
    • The complaint reveals that AKS was negotiating a reduction in the arranged compensation to the third party committee
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2019
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  15. tuxedo_gin

    tuxedo_gin Kenkyuusei

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    I feel like it's been explained before, but how exactly did Yoshinari come to control AKS? I know she was a pachinko queen, but how did somebody so incompetent and frankly terrible at the job come to be in charge of Japan's biggest idol empire?
     
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  16. lionel90

    lionel90 Under Girls

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    No idea either, but Kyoraku has been working for ages with 48 groups.
    Remember Team Z, Sukeban girls ? (I'm not sure if there are older releases)
    Also take a look back at both Team Surprise promotion campaigns (not badly done).
    And after, it's money power.
     
  17. Konno A.

    Konno A. Future Girls

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    I mean even if Maho was supposedly dating a guy - which was revealed to be ok in NGT anyways - it doesn't diminish what happened to her and how women are genuinely questioned over and over again about their assaults. In fact most victims know their abusers whether it's sexual or just str8 up abuse. So, I never really doubted she might have known them, but how much is questionable. But it does seem - and it's happened a lot over the year - that many want to put blame on Maho for what happened to NGT and that's not something one random idol can do so very easily. It was a flawed system (NGT) ready to crumble.
     
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  18. kira7x

    kira7x Kenkyuusei

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    Can you please translate the new audios that were released?
     
  19. SaitoWinterStar

    SaitoWinterStar Upcoming Girls Stage48 Donor

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    I think this article translated by @Cisalpine88 was the explanation for Yoshinari's appearance I could think of: http://stage48.net/forum/index.php?threads/ngt48-assault-case.22622/page-191#post-1607994

    In particular this part:
     
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  20. Reveen

    Reveen Under Girls

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    It's a bit opaque but as I understand it there's a vague timeline. In 2005 Akimoto, Kubota and Shiba (ie A, K and S) founded AKB48. Some time around 2011-12 Shiba sold his stake in AKS and pachinko maker Kyoraku bought in. Then around 2013 Kubota got into financial difficulty and had to sell his stake in AKS and Aki-P sold his stake in 2014. It may have been that Akimoto was effectively forced to sell his stake because Kyoraku (aka Yoshinori) had the majority stake bought from Kubota and Shiba, that much is unknown but you can see that from 2014 Aki-P's involvement in AKB and the 48 groups decreased and he seems to have stopped giving much of a shit about AKB.

    AKS's main tactic has been to diminish Maho's concerns and now they seem to be trying to actively blacken her name through the lawsuit, Yoshinori's outbursts and lackeys in the media and variety.

    Maho said (I believe it might have been in her graduation announcement, Cisalpine could probably correct me on that) that she had been propositioned by yakkai 2 years ago to meet privately and she'd said no. Iirc they said to her that other members were doing it so why wouldn't she but as an orthodox idol she wouldn't play ball.
     
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