BATTLE ARENA

Discussion in 'General AKB48 Discussion' started by junjou19, Apr 3, 2014.

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  1. junjou19

    junjou19 Member

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    Maybe if she put a little of that hard work into her singing skills, I'd be a bigger fan :p
     
  2. Kinenbi

    Kinenbi Member Stage48 Donor

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    Because, you know, vocals are the reason people are center in AKB.


    if the video does not show watch the video here

    Acchan at 2:43. Sorry, not all centers can sing.

    Regarding Jurina, I wish she'd just stick to SKE48 center. I love her very much and I oshi her, but no. She is NOT AKB48 and never will be.
     
  3. Mana

    Mana Under Girls

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    ^ Actually, no. Acchan might not be perfect in every live, but she sounds great in studio (what mostly matters for 48), and she did great at her live solo concerts. Nothing against Jurina, but the girl can't really sing, and her voice isn't pleasing to the ears, even in studio (imo). Listen to her Heart Ereki solo.

    This is how Acchan sounds, 100% live, alone, at her solo concert:


    if the video does not show watch the video here

    They can't be compared. I'm sure anyone can hear the difference.
     
  4. Kinenbi

    Kinenbi Member Stage48 Donor

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    Acchan has gotten a LOT better since her debut and I'm pretty sure she has taken singing lessons, but I still don't think she's "omg amazing". She was the wrong person to use as an example, I should have used Tomochin. Sorry, but she still can't sing!

    Edit: I keep on editing this stupid post because I keep on thinking of new things to say :^^;:.
     
  5. Furukawa_Akane

    Furukawa_Akane Member

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    If that is the case why isn't Yukirin ever center~ She has good vocals that can get her very far and you say vocals are why members center in AKB~
     
  6. notsolittlej

    notsolittlej Kenkyuusei

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    Jurina is definitely hardworking but her performing talent is way too overpraised. She is good but she is by no means the best performer in AKB. And her vocals are well...
     
  7. mayuri91

    mayuri91 Upcoming Girls

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    i agree. she's way too overpraised. she's just lucky to be born as aki-p golden child.
     
  8. Cristafari

    Cristafari Stage48 Admin Staff Member Stage48 Admin

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    I dunno. SKE needed a face to promote as their first sister group of AKB. From what I experienced Jurina proved early on why she was the most appropriate member to be picked for the job. She was young, extremely talented, ambitious and unusually outgoing for her age. Granted, she may not be an exemplary singer. But she has great skill in other areas of her craft. It is too bad some can't get over the fact that she was pushed. I guess pushing members is a sin, unless of course it is one's own oshi.

    But as for Jurina, to me she has proven her worthiness to be in the position she is in.
     
  9. notsolittlej

    notsolittlej Kenkyuusei

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    For me the problem is that people are overestimating her abilities as a performer (not to say that she is not good ofc). You know that as a Wasamin oshi. Even though she is unarguably one of the best, if not the best vocalist in AKB currently people always mention Takamina for example as the best vocalist (lol) because simply they do not know better. It's the same with Jurina. Not to say she's a bad performer, she's very good actually, but people are praising her performance abilities like she's the second coming of Jesus when in fact there are members who are better than her in dancing and performing in general. With that said, I don't doubt her position as SKE's oshi for the reasons you mentioned above. It was the right choice at the time.
     
  10. mayuri91

    mayuri91 Upcoming Girls

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    lol. extremely talented..in dancing? pretty sure there are other better than her.(anyway, from my view so far, most of them just dance according to choreo,cant judge talent upon that.unlike kpop idols which really show their dance talent)
    from what i see, she just moving so fast that make other look pretty bad. i dont mind if someone is pushed but at least give a break for a while.even you said she is tough, hardworking bla bla bla, everyone is the same.
    maybe i really not like her pushed because she isnt akb48 and no thing about her that can attract me.
    i think paruru nowadays isnt considered push because she is now a replacement for media senbatsu and kami7 and a staple member. she should be in top3 position, not jurina.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2014
  11. Starshard

    Starshard Kenkyuusei

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    While I don't object what you (and people) complain about Jurina's dancing being out of sync with other girls, regarding the bolded part in the quote, let me echo my opinion posted a few pages back of the pushes (in general) - there are reasons why some girls are popular after getting pushed.

    No, getting pushed doesn't mean you will get popular. If "everyone is the same", every pushes would have been successful and we would be having a very different senbatsu / top girls. Yet, there were a lot more of failed pushes than successful pushes. So please understand that if a girl get pushed, and could make it, she must have had something better (or more suited for an idol) than the average girls around - be it talents, or attitude, or charisma, or whatever one may guess. Remember that while we all can swear we know our oshis / the girls very well, we can only see what they showed us. The management have a much better view on the girls than us as they can observe them in their private lives as well. The management / Aki-P sure doesn't simply pick a name out of a hat and decide "Ok, we will push this girl next". There are reasons why they picked some girls to push, and there are reasons why some of those girls make it big.

    I'm *not* saying the un-pushed / unpopular girls aren't as good, but let's not just assume "everyone is the same" and write down the popular girls' popularity as they are "just lucky to be born as aki-p golden child(ren)"
     
  12. Cristafari

    Cristafari Stage48 Admin Staff Member Stage48 Admin

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    LOL? Blah blah blah? So my post was just a bunch of meaningless drivel to you, Mr. Expert?

    And you are saying what? She isn't talented? No talent at dancing, variety, personality? Yeah sure. Just a no-talent that is loved by enough fans to be a top senbatsu member. Oh, but you base your opinion of the members on their push? Better still, Paruru wasn't pushed. I have that right?

    None more blind than those who will not see.

    Once again, the irony is that while so many on this forum complain endlessly about members who are allegedly pushed, most of the fans here are fans of major push recipients. What was that again about glass houses? Or did I already use up my allotment of idioms?

    And I just wanted to requote my favorite part...


    Yeah that sounds logical. Thanks for the wisdom. Oh, and LOL.
     
  13. mayuri91

    mayuri91 Upcoming Girls

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    something wrong with that quote mr xristafari?
    ANYWAY, what i want is her to step back for a few times. let other be at front place for. let sayanee takes her place if it is from other group.

    starshard, tell me, which girl that was pushed 24h in front of your face that wasnt working? start with yui..paruru..jurina..basically, to get a succesful push, she must be pushed really hard, not half pushed, like myao,ami and several other. nevertheless, some of them succesfully to attract some fans like reinyan. mako naanya ricchan are lucky because their pushes are quite hard, got dramas, centre songs, unit, SP episode and others but they still not fixed senbatsu which is an important push.
    anyway everyone who is in senbatsu is a pushed member.
     
  14. Cristafari

    Cristafari Stage48 Admin Staff Member Stage48 Admin

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    Haha, someone who knows me very well :D
     
  15. junjou19

    junjou19 Member

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    Yeah, I have to agree that really if management pushes the crap out of a member, they generally succeed. If they give up and stop pushing then they are Myao'd. Jurina is great and all but there's no doubting she's Aki-P's, as someone said, golden child.

    Thank you. It's not that Jurina doesn't deserve the spotlight, because she does, I just don't like when people including management acts like she deserves to be the queen of the frigging world.

    And that includes AKB. Why does Jurina need to be the ace of SKE and AKB48 both? Seriously. Every group has a different image right? So while she's a great center for SKE48, that doesn't mean she should center AKB as well. You're not gonna give Sayanee an HKT48 concurrency and make her the ace, because that would be weird. Not to mention unfair to all the HKT girls, which I feel is a lot like what's happening in AKB. Dear management, THERE ARE OTHER GIRLS. In AKB. Who actually, like, joined AKB. Not SKE. Because that would defeat the purpose of having separate groups with separate images. Or we can just, you know, make Jurina rule everything. That's cool too, I guess.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 22, 2014
  16. cheza28

    cheza28 Kenkyuusei

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    I believe that AKB48 needs more AKB48 solo centered activities... like a Request Hour, at least one A side single...
    Ever since they created the sister groups AKB48 activities is shared while the other groups have their solo activities and PVs...
     
  17. Starshard

    Starshard Kenkyuusei

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    @mayuri91 : obviously I (and everyone else probably) agree with you that everyone who is in senbatsu is a pushed member. No one is denying that. However, as I said, a push is only something that help, it's not the all powerful tool that can turn a girl into the star without effort, so write off all the popular girls' attitude, skills or effort as simple "luck" and "getting pushed" is wrong. Moreover, a push generally require money, time and connection. With that in mind, do you think the management (headed by AkiP who successfully created two big idol groups years apart besides a lot other achievements) would decide it based on their whims / mood and not their experience? That would be naive.

    That's about target selection for pushing, now we go back to the method of pushing. It seems that you have a wrong understanding of how AKS push a member. As I said, a push require money, time and connection. They aren't running a charity. They won't put their effort into a failed push forever if they don't see any potential.
    The management have a lot more ways to track a member's popularity than us (i.e - just guessing: handshakes tickets sales, merchandise sales, ration of theater's ticket application, number of times mentioned by fans, etc.). If the member gains popularity, then her treatment will be improved logically, and the pushes gradually become normal treatment. You seems to consider that the good treatment a member (in this case, Jurina) get after her push is the continuing of her pushes, which isn't true. A push for a girl is the treatment that is better than what she deserve based on her popularity.
    If the member doesn't seem to gain popularity, then they would stop it. There is no point in investing money and time to something that cannot sell. Which resulted in your "half-pushed" - which are actually failed pushes. They just stopped pushing because the girls didn't seem to be able to make good use of their opportunities. Keep in mind, too, that strength of pushes is related to strength of AKB. You are talking about being everywhere as normal push because you are looking at today's AKB. Years ago, even getting a solo in a stage would be considered a good push, so in case of Aamin / Myao (since you mentioned them), they were actually having good pushes, they just couldn't make use of it due to whatever reason it was.
    If "everyone is the same", we wouldn't have the failed pushes such as (since you asked):
    - Shii-chan: used to get a stable stream of TV variety shows. Too bad she couldn't make it big as Sasshi did.
    - Akicha: was once the miraculous KKS, the KKS that get promoted fastest, centered one of the strongest B-side song and be everywhere - from shows to magazines. She wasn't particularly failing / unpopular now, but her pushes didn't turn out to be what they wanted to (getting one of the new aces) either.
    - Paruru first push wave: didn't even earned a result. They stopped pushing her for a while. Fortunately, they resumed her pushes with the new generation aces things and it worked out the 2nd time.
    - Renacchi: almost failed. If not for this year, that would have been considered a failed push. Still, haven't turned out to be as good as the management wanted (in relative to the strength of the AnRiRe pushes).
    Those are the one I could think of on top of my head. There were still Fresh Lemon, Mocchi, Aamin, Myao and some others.

    Just saying, while the groups are having different image right now, it wasn't purpose of creating different sister groups. Having multiple groups was just supposed to make the "idol you can meet" more accessible, especially to people miles away from Tokyo.
    The thing with AKB right now is that, when mainstream / casual fans think of AKB, they don't think of it as Tokyo AKB48@Akihabara, but the umbrealla group consisted of all 48 groups - AKB SKE NMB HKT (and probably SPR soon) regardless of how AKB purists / sister groups' zealous wotas may think.
     
  18. rka

    rka Senbatsu Stage48 Donor

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    How do you define push? By my definition, you are over-simplifying things.

    Because there is a demand for certain members (which certainly may have or may have not arised by an initial push), and demands needs to be saturated. Girls like Takamina, Yukirin haven't been pushed for years now. They are considered core members and that's why they are displayed all the time.
     
  19. mayuri91

    mayuri91 Upcoming Girls

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    core members are akb48 members.lol
    those who has been selected as senbatsu basically is pushed member/the one who is getting promotion and face known by the public.
    you can say that yui paru jurina and others is being pushed because they are being promoted to the public.
    while other girls just perform in front of 200 audiences.they arenot being pushed for the time being.
    that's my defination.

    when did paruru get her 1st pushed? i never heard of her activities after ranking in 2nd election.obviously she wasnt pushed at that time. her push started so sudden like yui push.

    like i said, to get a succesful push, you need to be in senbatsu,give drama,variety, SP show and other, basically put her in front of our face like forever, then it is a guarentee success. renacchi only get anrire unit, b-side songs, which cant be compared to big3 pushes. but anyway she manage to grab some attention like other half-push members.

    but if you stop, you can be like myao or even meru<---akicha case where you got big push, but suddenly stop, fading away slowly..but of course meru is new gen and one of hkt face. she gonna rise back. however, if they make akicha a staple senbatsu member, i believe she still will hold on her 13-12 spot in ranking. (i believe she is kicked out to give spot to other 48sis,)
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2014
  20. Starshard

    Starshard Kenkyuusei

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    Now that's your issue. Your definition of "being pushed" is different from most of us. Rka explained it better than I did -
    A girl being in senbatsu or TV show doesn't immediately means she was getting pushed. To the popular girls, it's just the demands for them. TV show producers want rating so they want as many popular girls in the setup as possible. Imagine you are a TV music show producer, and AKB sent you a team of 17 unknown KKS, would you be happy? AKS isn't JE so I doubt they have much choice in the matter, they can choose to banter to get a few girls they want to push in, that's the most they can do. In that line, a lot of "pushes" you are thinking about actually isn't one. The popular girls are on those shows because they succeed in making use of their original pushes and raised to the level in which the shows want them, so it become their normal treatment, not a push.

    Moreover, the "monster push" you mentioned - being everywhere (senbatsu, drama, variety, TV shows and others) all at the same time - is something relatively new. As I said, you need to judge the strength of the push based on strength of AKB. These "monster pushes" only seem normal to you because AKB has been everywhere for a few years. However, some years back, during the time of original Kami-7 and those "half push" you mentioned, these "half push" were what people called "really good push", because that's all AKS could do. The girls who have been around since then, and are getting "monster pushes" (i.e: Mayuyu / Jurina) are getting those strong pushes because they were able to make use of the so-called "half push" and got popular back then. They didn't started by getting all these - it's out of AKB's power back then. Even Jurina "in-your-face" pushes back then only was being in magazines, AKBINGO, perform in shows and being in senbatsu.

    If you are thinking the "half push"es you mentioned were being weak push, then rethink it, it was strong back then. Just too bad the girls couldn't make use of it for whatever reason we don't know. A proof of not everyone is the same, you need to have what it takes (that doesn't mean talents, btw).

    Regarding the pushes you mentioned.
    Paruru's first push started as early as 2010. It wasn't entirely fruitless as she got more popular for a while (went from nothing to #28), but for some reasons, her popularity kind of stopped increasing so after a while, they ceased her push. That resulted in her completely drop off the ranking. They gave her a 2nd chance with the new gen aces thing, and unlike last time, she made good use of the pushes this time and get more popular.

    Akicha case - stop getting pushed, if you are popular enough, shouldn't means you will be fading away. If a girl is popular, she will be capable of self sustaining for a while. Yukirin hasn't been actively pushed for a long time, Kojiharu hasn't either (until that surprise center for Heart Ereki and that might not even count as a push). For all the monster pushes Mayuyu were getting in 2012-2013, after her defeat in last year Sousenkyo, she got significantly less pushes and even moved back to B (a move means the management were giving up on her to many people), but she didn't faded away. Akicha was in senbatsu for *every singles* since her push started until she dropped out of sousenkyo ranking, if that wasn't "a staple senbatsu member", I don't know what that was.

    BTW, AnRiRe actually got the "monster push" you mentioned in its true meaning. They were relatively unknown girls, yet they got sub unit, single release (together with Sasshi), TV show, drama, magazines & CM appearance. So I don't know why you compared her to the "half pushed" girls.
     
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