The STAGE48 post dump

Spoiler

I've thought about this at length many times, too... it'd be amazing. However, the problem with the reality at its core, is twofold: 1) reliable memory and its density, and 2) the power to maintain it. Below are all the ramifications and consequences, which are infinitely harder to crack.

More than just the physical constraints, are the socio-political ones. Who do you think will have access such technology, the world being as it is now? The obscenely-rich, of course. Do you think they can be trusted to unilaterally distribute the access, powers, and abilities it promises? Of course not... they never have historically, and barring some sort of non-intuitive, extra-human upgrade to human nature... never will.

Even if we were to tenfold increase the density and access times and tenfold decrease the power consumption... in a world expected to have the initial dustings of this tech, say 2100... such 'avatars' will require a quarter-acre of physical space, constant maintenance, and a reliable long-term source of power -- source, storage, and density for which is its own socio-political Gordian knot. That's even if in 80 years, we even have the foundations of understanding the wiring and switching of the human brain well enough to create an avatar of it. And then... there's technological obsolescence -- does the avatar get to decide who transfers it to newer tech? And how does that affect it against those who have access to newer tech sooner? What rights and restrictions will they be bound by? How will such restrictions be enforced?

I predict a society where you're uploaded wholly into a virtual yottabyte Universe, free of anything that stunts personal growth and wisdom... awaits the development and successful execution of something called a Matryoshka Brain... which is thousands of years away, optimism=max.

And then there's good ol' fear and ignorance -- bios will fear the big buildings housing someone formerly flesh and bone, being able to access the wider networks of wired objects (which by 2100, will be just about everything, if people are brave/apathetic enough to let it go that far)... giving them great voyeuristic power, at the very minimum. Bios will protest not being able to afford such capability. Besides, when a human brain is avatar'd... is it still human? And even if the years of coding to prevent such transgressions are in place... is it the same person? Where's the line? Getting back to rights again... to get around the limitations of static existence and dependence on infrastructure, avatars may develop small enough to be humanoid in form, thereby granting them some autonomy in physical space and power over their destinies... but then also the ability for others to capture, restrain, and torment them. So what are the cost:benefits over a cyborg'd wetware human? And how will belligerents like fundamentalists use transhumanism to suppress and terrorize, as they always have?

Anyhow -- I could go on for days Bottom line is... until we become a society that cannot revert to the state we currently possess as individuals -- new intellects, floating tenuously in a squishy, squirty, salty architecture driven by evolution to perform might-makes-right and non-altruistic decisions under duress... we can't expect to have nice tech like avatars. And that's also if our 'stable geniuses' don't turn everything to ash before we reach Type II.

Make no mistake -- I'm a big fan of Gibson, and would love to take a dive... but it won't happen without massive consequences for everyone involved. None of us alive at this moment'll see it, and no one a thousand years from now either.

Good related clips to watch:


if the video does not show watch the video here


if the video does not show watch the video here

 

@stormy I appreciate the points you're making, but I was actually talking about something much simpler (though still very complicated). You don't need to upload to some virtual reality, just the transfer of consciousness from an organic brain to an inorganic equivalent. In other words, just swap your mind into an artificial body, so you're still you and self-sufficient to maintain yourself. (and yes, some people would make spiritual/soul arguments here about there being more to us - something that can't be replicated - but frankly I don't care to get into that and don't think it belongs in the conversation unless someone can provide scientific evidence to support it.)

Granted, that technology is still far off, but not thousands of years. And that's why I also mentioned cybernetics. It can extend life by who knows how long. If we get there first, living to see mind-uploading (or transfering consciousness, whatever you want to call it) is very plausible given the rate that technology is advancing.

As for all the stuff about human nature getting in the way, it will, but history shows that once new technology is out there, it always finds a way. And this isn't just stealing music and hacking phones, this is about as big as it gets, no one would be able to keep this from the rest of the world. The only issue would be cost. That's a valid concern. Better start saving!

(*edit - just realised it's past 3AM so don't wait around for a reply if you have more to say.
I think I've pretty much said everything I wanted to anyway.)

 

^ What you're talking about is exactly the same, just even more complicated since you're assuming human consciousness can fit into a comparatively compact humanoid form (which was mentioned in my post, btw). All socio-political obstacles remain as-is -- and are not trivial. Anyway...

Spoiler

Just watch the videos as requested, since you're not replying. That'll make my stance a bit easier to digest, as you seem to not have much to support your point other than just blind optimism. Peace...

 

If you like the topic 'transfering consciousness ' you guys should watch 'Travelers' on netflix. :q

 

^ That's fiction, though. We're talking about actualization...

Anyone can write pie-in-the-sky scifi, with no regard for realities... but then it's more fantasy than scifi. The best scifi imo is hard scifi -- based on as much of what we know and what's plausible as possible. When you talk about actually doing scifi-like things, for real... you need more than just optimism. The More You Know...

 

I prefer if it's just fanatsy.
Just the thought that someone could somehow overwrite my mind/ transfer it creeps me out. ( Sorry if my english is not understandable/ wrong)

Which scifi series would you recommends tho? :q

 

I really like 'The Expanse'. It's by far the best hard scifi I've ever seen in a television series. The books by James S. A. Corey are quite different but also amazing...

To give you an idea of the manga titles I like in hard scifi... 'Planetes' is one of my favorites (I like the manga much, much better than the anime). The Expanse is very much like it in storytelling: it blends big, vast stories of countries and planets at war... with small, personal, human stories very well. There are mysteries as well, big and small, that keep my attention and force me to think laterally. Easily top-3 of the best TV scifi series ever made, IMO.

 

Thank you for your recommendations @stormy ! I'm looking forward to watch them ( if my schedule is less packed).

 

I confess I'm quite glad I'll be dead when robots become equal to men. I'm sure amazing things will become true, but mankind is going fast on a road where everything is becoming automatic and many people are slowly losing contact with the rest... Let's take the train, for example; people used to talk, read, sleep...now half of the people are completely absorbed in their mobile phones during all the trip. Sad.

 

I try not to be a dick on these forums, I really try, but there are limits lol. Yeah, I watched your science for children youtube videos. They didn't address what I was talking about, the closest it came was generating consciousness by simulating a brain. I don't think you understand the discussion at all. I mean, this sentence alone, "since you're assuming human consciousness can fit into a comparatively compact humanoid form" ... And there is so much long-winded nonsense in your comments that I don't even know where to start, so I'm not going to.

Anyway, I do enjoy giving my thoughts on things and hearing other peoples' thoughts, but I'm no expert, so I'm not gonna try to discuss it in depth with someone who just acts like one.
Idol forums. Shoulda known better lol.

 

True -- I don't understand it, since I don't know what universe "human consciousness fitting into a compact humanoid form" and "transfer of consciousness from an organic brain to an inorganic equivalent" differ. How are you going to transfer it, if you can't simulate it in a non-organic brain first? Reading-averse pish... you're talking as if you can transfer a person's consciousness like transplantation, which is Muppet-nonsense. And those 'children's' videos? Google them... I'm assuming you know how, as you somehow got here.

Meaning what, agreeing with you because... no reason stated?

Instead of blanket-condemning a whole community because someone's making you explain your inflated Millennial self (turnabout's fair play)... I'd suggest well, explaining yourself calmly, instead of dismissing what you yourself don't understand, and taking your little football when confronted. Hey you don't like discussion on idol forums? Lots of other forums with those who'll respect kids who can't back themselves up, then toss a hissy fit when they're called out. See ya...

QED -- word salad, same you're accusing me of. Trump playbook, plain and simple -- 45% of the damned country.

Promises, promises. Let's see if you have the integrity to actually debate, rather than spray another keyboard with flop sweat. Out...

 

And this is why I didn't want to carry on with you lol. Talk about a "hissy fit". I'm cool as a cucumber, I don't take any of this too seriously and neither should you. Now please give it a rest instead of filling the whole page with insults. End of discussion.

 

Spoiler

Serious enough to reply, "cucumber"... less than half an hour from posting at that...

Not monitoring this or anything, right? Thought you were above idol forums lol

*sigh* As no informed response to any of my arguments were posted... NOW it's over (hopefully), as I'm going to talk about some other topic.

--


if the video does not show watch the video here

This is a concept for a humane execution/euthanasia coaster, using gravity and centrifugal force to deplete the brain of oxygen for a sustained length of time -- enough to cause death.

Since gray-out and black-out (g-induced Loss of Consciousness, or g-LOC) in high-G is relatively humane and pain-free (most fighter pilot trainees don't even realize they've blacked out in a centrifuge, until they've awoken again), its over half-kilometer-high peak and seven progressively-smaller loops, can euthanize terminally-ill patients with cancer or other immensely-painful-sundown diseases, in a drug-free, if rather spectacular way.

The coaster was designed to subject its riders to one minute @10G (ten times the force of gravity). G-suits, as in jet fighters, are required over 6G sustained, and can still cause g-LOC if you aren't doing exercises to keep blood out of the lower body (Anti-G Straining Manuevers, or AGSM). Only the fittest, most experienced pilots can withstand sustained 10G without a g-suit... and certainly not for a whole minute.

In case you were wondering no, this isn't going to be built anytime soon -- the legal barriers, not to mention the engineering, cost, and public reaction to a giant coaster made only to kill people, standing almost the height of One World Trade Center... are daunting, even if it did provide a service of mercy to all 24 potential passengers of the concept.

 

Spoiler: LONG, fair warning...

The ability for AI to make calculations faster than comparable human brains* is uncomfortably close... but not to worry, IMO, as we have yet to cross any empirical standard for true artificial intelligence. Simulating intelligence, though... that's different (witness Sophia, that creepy uncanny-valley female-mannequined "AI" -- I think her appearances are more scripted than not, so definitely not an AI).

But going back to robots=humans... passing so-called Turing Tests for being a true AI... my feeling is current research's hamstrung by lack of understanding how the brain creates consciousness, as well as what consciousness itself actually is. All we can do is take incremental steps towards simulation of milestones in brain research, in whatever forms of processors and memory we have at the time (such as quantum processing)... and see if future banks of supercomputers, programmed to make billions of engineering and testing decisions in the evolution of brain-like AI... can help us reach 'singularity' sooner.

But the disconnect -- that's been talked about for a long time IIRC. I read a tech article around 5-6 yrs ago, how a futurist's research into past, similar laments about distraction and disconnection from nature and others, existed through the Industrial Age and perhaps even further back. But a popular example of what tends to happen, is radio receivers in cars -- there was a large contingent of critics in the '30s & '40s who said that putting such a distraction in an automobile would take away from attention to the road, leading to accidents. But you don't see a single automobile from a major automaker without an audio system, and usually packed with even more distractions. In my lifetime I too, have seen cars with one receiver and one speaker, go to 8-in touchscreens controlling shifting, throttle response, launch control, audio, navigation, and a slew of functions all requiring attention diverted to one's situational awareness. And the kind of driving that results...

Similarly, the mobile smartphone is going to evolve -- probably into something at first flexible, then wearable... then perhaps even implantable. Since the vast majority of users already consider a $1000 smartphone too dear to own (mine is only $70 off a full G )... any such tech will need to stay around this cost -- including implantation -- so IMO it'll only be affordable by the 'toff' kids. Can you imagine having a conversation with someone, seeing them suddenly stop listening, then realize they're taking a call or playing an FPS... not even being able to see the device? But for the generation of users in this future time... like car radios, it'll be just another commerce-driven 'normal' to adjust to, not knowing a time when it wasn't there (like Millennials and the internet). How will dealing with each other not be compromised, when your every waking moment is peppered with social media blather, right into your field of vision and inside your head? There are ethical questions to answer before someone implants tech into my body... but it seems as if people, lacking any sort of informed way to decide besides 'it's popular I better get it'... wanting unique distractions *right now*... we underestimate what we push aside, that we think we know.

It's been proven that in the bodies we inhabit now (which we still don't fully understand)... more functions are dependent on human contact then we know. Females for example, are proven to lower HR / BP and other stress response indicators, when in the presence of their husband's scent. There're countless studies and published material on how pets allow those with dementia and speech impediments to function more gracefully, with less energy and increased healing factors. How a mother's presence, her scent, her breast milk, her voice and actions post-partum, imprint on the infant and are integral with increased markers for immune response, food tolerance, and disposition. Remove these things... and compromised, unsettled socio- and psychopathic development can result.

Finally... I see these things becoming magnified when we decide to leave Earth in generational spaceships -- now you've removed where you came from, the very dust from which you rose. What effect will that final, ultimate disconnect have on human beings? Can you even call them human anymore? Probably, they'll be the first true transhumans, evolving somehow without the crucible.



* being a high-functioning aspie I tend to follow fellow hf aspies like Daniel Tammett, whose brain is congenitally configured to somehow instantly display the answers to lengthy math problems as colors and shapes in his mind's eye -- synaesthesia, incredible

 

+1 on The Expanse.

Season 3 can't come soon enough.

@noTKMNnoLIFE You sound just like the people Kurzgesagt YT Channel is meant for. Those that have no proper understanding of the sciences being discussed.

That said, you are quite right. They do not really touch on what you are suggesting. In those two vids.

Having said that..... Stormy is right. Both about the complications involved in specifically what you suggest, and how simulating a human level consciousness has many of the same complications.

Isaac Arthur, a futurist on YT, discusses at length some of these things. Minus the socio-political stuff, he tends to stick to the science aspect. If Kurzgesagt is too childish for you. (Protip, they are not.) As Mr Arthur will point out over and over again, we are long long long way from uploading our brains to a computer. And even that much more longer for uploading to a robot. 1. The technology for doing it is a century, but probably much more, away. 2. Medically speaking, we are atleast that far way from the understanding of human brains/consciousness needed to do something like that.

@stormy From the rules thread.

I know, your long posts are long. You just make them longer by making two posts. Edit button is there for a reason, and it ain't to fix spelling.

 

Whoops, will fix -- which one? I'm usually pretty good about that; not intentional...

 

13 days in and got every Winter 2018 SHOWROOM lottery avatars. New record!

Saving up stars for the next lottery season (long time for it). Please let this luck continue.

 

Do I need to throw expensive gifts to get higher chance to win 1st price? I want that miko avatar.

 

^I got first price avatar on my second try

 

What I worry about myself last few days