Shida Manaka (Mona) / Keyakizaka46 1st Generation

Well, its because we have never seen a group like this.
I cannot really blame anyone. In the end, even if they have to, they cannot hide their true feelings. They are human.
They had to give and show a lot of personality, spirit, strong will from the 4th single to really be able to make the strong songs lyrics alive. Takahiro asked them a lot emotionnaly.
Lots of attitudes changed from that moment. You can clearly see that on the TV show.
I think some members reached their limits after 4th single was release and til the end of last year like Imaizumi or Techi.

Beautifully said. She is really unique.

 

I don't think it is just b/c of the song or the job. For example, after Imaizumi took a hiatus, Uemura, a girl who used to upload her pics daily suddenly stop posting anything since then. She also stop smiling on the show and stop talking. Isn't it butterfly effect?

 

Regarding Imaizumi's awkwardness when she first returned, maybe you'll understand it more if you read this interview: http://wetriedsubbing.blogspot.my/2017/08/the-sunny-ocasionally-cloudy-sky.html

(edit : just saw subesh already posted the same interview lol)

 

So many good comments over the past few hours. Yes, @Subesh, I have to agree that there may be some awkwardness. Not for Manaka having done "wrong," but for having done something that could affect everyone else negatively. I find the discussions right now very helpful as I try to understand how to think about all this.

I personally like Zuumin more now than I ever did before. I found her shallow before and deeper now. Now her joy at performing seems so real to me. I agree totally that she is all about singing, and I think she was deeply frustrated and confused to see Techi ahead of her and impossible to get around, despite Zumiko's singing being technically more perfect. Now that she is in front more often, I think she's happier. Or at least that's how it appears to me. But she herself was worried even before she came back about the reaction from other members (see article linked to by @hmmero above). She has never seemed close with other members, to me. I feel as if there are lots of little difficulties between members that we don't know about. And that's normal.

When I spoke about members who are entertaiining, I wasn't just thinking about variety, @Subesh. Hirate's contribution to our entertainment has been largely through performance, Mona's largely in variety.

I'm not sure why KeyaKake seems less joyous now, but I think it may be partly because members have realized that without Techi they are not the same group that rose so high. Even Yui-Pon has said something like that. It must be really disappointing, when some of them may have previously thought Techi was more of a hindrance than a help. And just missing that important member must be disorienting. I'm not blaming anybody, but I think Techi's on-again, off-again absence last year must have had a bad effect on her friend Mona. Emotional stress can lead to exhaustion, too.

 

^this is the most likely case.
i think back then in zuumin's mind, seeing how she has always wanted to be a solo artist.. if she's being pushed to the back and overlooked in an idol group then she probably won't make it as a solo singer/artist.

the girls are more complex than we think.. they have their goals-wants-needs, the effect and influence of relationships/dynamics within the group, their fears and frustrations, outside relationships and family...although most will say they are being unprofessional, i'm actually glad? that they're bad at faking being happy lol it makes them seem more human

 

I hope after the first single Zuumin realized that being the best singer in the group doesn't necessarily mean you automatically get to be center or at the very top. Techi's aura surpasses any Keya member, I'm sure all members get that by now. Zumiko wants to take Keya in a more 'softer" direction, but that is Nogi's territory. That may also add to her frustration. I have no doubts she will have a good singing career in the future, but I wonder if she is in the right group now.

 

i guess we'll have to wait a few more years before we see the first gens of 48/46 do this with new idols

 

@ukifune Hirate is probably the one who contributes the most in Keykai in terms of entertainment value. But the constant stigma and and negativeness that surrounds her has caused a lot of tension and and just overall unhappiness for the group, herself and the fans.
It's up-to her to resolve that. She desperately needs to change her attitude towards things if she wants to start enjoying things again.

I don't think Zuumin ever thought that she could be the center because of her singing abilities.
Sorry to post this long thing here and I might get a lot of hate for this but
Here's an unpopular opinion.
I don't think Hirate is as special as everyone makes her out to be. I think she is as special as she is now because of the opportunities she got. I say this because if you look at the first few pages of the SaiMajo thread, you'll see a lot of people talking about who the center might be but not many if any mentioned Hirate. They didn't see the 'aura' or the 'special thing' back then. Granted that the fans didn't have a good idea of what the members were like and only the management knew. I think in the idol industry, the management just choose the girl they want as their face and continue focusing on her and give more chances to that particular girl. Of course not everyone could do it and the management didn't just select the 'one' arbitrarily, but among the handful who could do it, if the management had selected someone else, I think she would be in the same position as Hirate is in today.

I don't really know how it was like for Nogizaka back in the Ikoma "the chosen one" or "special girl" time but I presume the situation was very similar if not the exact. She probably got comment like what Hirate gets right now. As someone who got into Nogizaka only recently I don't know a whole lot but what I see in Nogizaka are people like Shiraishi Mai, Nishino Nanase, Ikuta Erika, Hori Miona who hold equal foot against Ikoma Rina in being Nogizaka's center. It probably would have been the same case if Shiraishi Mai or some of the members who already graduated who I'm not so familiar with was chosen to be the center for the first five singles. The center that is chosen will be the superior one for quite some time but the management must eventually come to terms and decide who they want the new center to be. Now there are many candidates for Nogizaka to choose as their center for the next single. In Keyaki, the management must start cultivating the Shiraishi Mais, the Nishino Nanases of Keyakizaka and who knows, maybe they'll outgrow Hirate like Shiraishi Mai and Nishino Nanase have against Ikoma (personal opinion).

Edit:And to add to that, no one would've thought that Hirate Yurina would fit the style they currently have perfectly. In the early days, she didn't have the same 'aura' which she has kind of developed with the management's help over the 2 years. If she keeps on becoming the center because her style which has developed over the years is superior, then what's the point of having other talented members if they're not going to use it to their fullest potential? They might as well just be replaced by logs.

 

Interesting. I did not know there was such an issue with Zuumin. Personally, I do not think it's an issue to want to stand at the center. In fact, I think it is a good thing. I feel most kanji members are just satisfied with being part of the group. It's not a bad thing but it just puts more pressure to whoever is at the center, serving as the face of the group.

Yes 21-member Kanji is the best. I, too, would want them to continue as they are now. But realistically speaking, that will not always be the case. At the end of all this, they would graduate and pursue other things.

I agree with finding the Nanase/Maiyan/Ikuchan/Asuka/Hori (not literally but you know, substitute centers) of Kanji. It's not to replace Techi. No one can replace Techi but they will make the group more balanced and stronger. As great as Techi being the center, having her center all the singles is not feasible for a large number group. Besides Techi also seems to dislike being the center. At least someone should be there to share some of that burden with Techi.

 

@ariadne32391 Zuumin once said during an interview something like, just paraphrasing from memory "You might hate me after you listen to what I say.....I want to be the center too...." and she said something about her height and gave an example of an I think AKB48 member who i assume was short but still became the center. She hasn't talked about being center since. And I don't mean replacing Hirate, just giving chance to other members. I think Hirate is special in her own way but the management shouldgive other members the opportunities. Which I think will break the illusion that she's SUPREMELY special which in my opinion is not true.

 

maybe at first Yuipon and Zuumin are the only one's who seem to have the strongest desire to become center and change Keyaki's structure.. but now it seem's more members are starting to realise they can't rely solely on Hirate and have to change their way of thinking and doing things..

but back to Manaka though, being such a free spirited person i wonder if being in keyaki and idol life has completely burned her out .. i really hope she still want's to come back

 

Oh I see. Well at least Zuumin was honest about it.

But yeah just like hmmero said back to Shida. This is her thread afterall. I hope she takes as much time as she needs to recover and decide to come back.

 

i think zuumin and yuipon are more fit in nogizaka rather than in keyaki.
theres 2 members imo in keyaki who really ambitious zuumin and habu. and silent person is yuipon. thats good by the way, those members make this group more colorful. we dont know what will happen in the future. i hope we will see different center and at the end we can see who is the real center in keya.

oh this is shida's thread.

 

i wish the best for shida. shes not my oshi but i really respect her a lot. i dont care about this scandal.
i hope she will comeback stronger

 

This only latest mona picture will have for next couple of months. .monaaa .we will waiting for you.pls take care of your health

 

I saw the pictures on twitter and wanted to check out what was going on here...

A few things I would clear up.... Yes, Idols from Idol groups were retiring after their romantic relationships were exposed well before AKB48. Case in point-- Yaguchi Mari and Fujimoto Miki quit Morning Musume after being caught out with their boyfriends. In Onyako Club it might have happened-- but, honestly, in retrospect that group's existence was so short and ended so abruptly that not much in the way of trends could have been set by it.

Akimoto has said flat out that there is no actual "no dating rule" in the contracts or anything. It is more a piece of advice.
The only time girls were actually fired for dating (and mind you, it wasn't exposed in a newspaper or anything) was a bunch of girls in HKT48 first gen-- and the person who fired them was subsequently fired himself.
There have been plenty of other girls who have quit after their relationships were revealed-- but that was mostly because they felt so much shame and fear at the fan backlash or they realized that even if they continued in the company, they weren't going to receive any more big opportunities (since big opportunities get determined by which girl's fans are giving the company the most money on their behalf and now they likely alienated the big spenders) and decided that it would be better to quit than keep working when it won't amount to much.

There have been girls who have been caught dating and have stuck it out, but their position within the company has... at best... kind of hits a plateau at that point and doesn't improve any.
The only exception was Sashihara and almost certainly because Sashihara was dating a fan who she met at a theater show, if the entire story is to be believed, which just plays so well into the delusions of those who will spend the most money chasing the idol's attention. After all-- if she dated one fan and then broke up with them, then maybe they can be next.
Those who date people they know in their personal life or other idols... that doesn't play too well into those guys' fantasies, because those are things they just cannot be.


People trying to excuse it because of "culture" are being ridiculous. This "culture" has not been around for very long at all and it is absolutely possible for it to be shamed and changed. The wota flat out need to grow up and become more mature.
Why did you support the girl in the first place?
Because you think she is funny and talented and you want to see her perform in many TV shows and such? Great! So... what difference does it make that she has a boyfriend? Hell-- if anything, her getting to experience a wider range of emotions and getting more confident and secure will only serve to make her a better performer in general.
Because you think she was going to date you and marry you? Then you are an idiot and a creep-- your actions have just hurt yourself and possibly your favorite girl too. Go spend your money on a hostess bar girl or a hooker-- it'll be cheaper and you'll get a lot more out of it.

People need to be called out and shamed for this sort of behavior until they are too embarrassed about it in order to act this way. And, really, while the idol business is drunk off of these people's money-- it is killing their business in the long term. The more and more of these people there are around, the more and more the other fans will be repulsed away until only these guys are left and then more and more what was originally aimed at a wide market appeal has to be more and more bent towards these twisted individuals' preferences.


But, that being said-- is it likely Shida likely to come back?
Well... no. If she weren't on hiatus then-- sure-- it isn't impossible to ride something like this out. But because she is on hiatus? I wouldn't expect her to come back.

This whole hiatus thing is weird. Just a few years ago, the whole concept was entirely unheard of. No one ever took a hiatus before then. There were idols who suffered serious injuries and if it took more than the minimal amount of time to heal, they would up and quit. Now it seems like every group has a girl who is out for months at a time promising to come back and resume after some undisclosed amount of time.

And what has this really resulted in? Either the girls just flat out don't come back... or they come back and then take another hiatus after only a few months back... or they come back and then graduate within a year.

Right now it seems like "hiatus" is well... one foot out the door, but not yet ready to fully commit to giving up. But once that one foot is out that door and they see how nice it is outside... its really hard to come back in. Rather than getting refreshed, it seems like time off just gives them all the perspective they need to be ready to fully commit to quitting.

So a girl with one foot out the door already, this turns up? Now if she comes back, she is going to come back possibly to a handshake event where people buy tickets just to vent rage at her-- rage she didn't so much cause, but rage at generally how bad and lonely their own lives are and how jealous they are and the delusion to escape that which she represented has now been snatched away.

Even those who aren't quite that bad-- those who might have been more invested in her having a successful future in the company... well.. even they are forced to admit that to get over in this business, they kind of needed those stalkery creeps invested in her because they are the ones who shape company policy with their money. So... even if they aren't mad at her for having a boyfriend, even they have to be disappointed in her.

 

Just a question about idols in general, do you think the idol status is a hindrance or help? By that I mean, if she wasn't an idol (or was at first but graduated earlyish for non-idol work like Nagashima Seira), how far would you think they would get on their personality, looks, skill level, etc?

I ask because of conflicting thoughts on Mona. I personally don't want Mona to return to the group, for both her sake and the group's sake. I want her to do modeling and acting work instead.

But, would her personality, looks, skill level, etc gain her as much support as when she was an idol? Maybe she will retain female fans who buy the magazines she models in but can Mona compete against non-idol pros in those non-idol industries if she lacks that support of wotas(male and female)? I don't think she is high caliber enough (yet?) to sway casual fans to dish out the yens in more amount than if she stayed a scandal-free idol.

Edit: Another question I have is how much does the stigma of the wota fans cause casual people to not want to be grouped in with them as a fan. @CrssA can you provide a Japanese perspective too please?

 

I doubt that will happen. It is Japan, challenging the status quo is taboo. It has been nearly half a century since the start of idol culture, that is quite a long time. Furthermore people just don't really care. The de facto no dating rule is just part of being an idol. If you broke that rule? Regardless of morals (dating, personal life, idols, etc.), you were unprofessional in your job, and therefore should feel ashamed.

Also I have never heard of "extreme" fans driving away "normal" fans. Even if something like that did happen (fans being driven away by fans) idols aren't supposed to be for "public consumption" anyways- if anything, management would almost certainly be pleased if "normal" fans turned into "extreme" fans, resulting in more spending/more profit.

 

Just for the record we do actually know that the Keyakizaka girls got a rules and regulations type hand out given to them that covered relationships and dating. Keyakizaka is one of the few groups we actually know it exists since it was confirmed by one of the girls, Koike to be exact. The love ban is just part of the job; you want to be an idol you gotta deal with it. Don't want to abide by it? Stop being an idol or keep being an idol and deal with the consequences of getting caught. It's no different than a job requiring employees to cover up tattoos or wear specific uniforms. No point in getting up in arms about it.

Not even a question being an idol, specifically being a part of the Sakamichi series is a massive boon for the girls. They wouldn't get to do a tenth of the things they have already done without it. The smart girls that want to still be in the entertainment world made business connections while being an idol and didn't just rely on their looks or talents. Nagashima Seira is a prime example of that since her close relationship with Ijiri probably helped get her picked up with HoriPro since that's his agency also.

 

imo , there's some categories in japan like wota , otaku , and people still categorized them as creepy. what kind of things they've done that can be call creepy , uhmm well.. sometimes people being so harsh toward this like they're people who cant get socialized with others , and there's still more creepy otaku/wota description that i cant tell in public forums since i think its a little bit to harsh.

but , in recent days (especially for sakamichi's event) , these creepy type guys was barely founded anywhere , and its well known that there's tons of teenagers come to sakamichi series event especially K46 , i dont know if these creepy types guys still be founded a lot back in akb golden era's since i haven't move to japan yet at around 2012~2013.