Hori Miona (Miona) / 2nd Gen

"i dont like her push" her push, her push, her push... you're just grumbling about that. You have never appreciated her efforts, that's make you more like a hater than a fan. And I know, if talk about Miona, you only grumbled about her push, so i'm done with you

 

yes she is

 

Wow there's people still talking about Miona push even it's almost 7 year ago.

 

Really?
Is she the same level of popularity as Nishino, Shiraishi, Ikuta, Asuka, Yoda, Yamashita? In all the indicators like handshake event, nogikoi, PB sales, showroom viewer, number of fans ..., or something like like or retweet on nogizaka twitter?
If so, I am sincerely sorry I stopped here, dont want to wasting time on this

 

my pb came in the other day, and boy am i glad I ordered the rakutan cover. it's just the best content wise, I'm glad I tried to avoid previews because some of the shoots really blew me away I highly recommend any hori fans to snag it!! nice to see the sales are pretty decent as well

 

lmao. you guys are plain ignorant. as long as she is the only 2nd gen front girl, she wont get fully support from many fans. and i pity her. she may already know how fans arenot sitting well with the idea as sole rep from 2nd gen. i think she better graduate.

 

A

Nishino, Maiyan, Iku and Ashu are in the 1st tier. But I don't think Yoda and Yamashita are at their level yet.
And if you see latest Nikkei talent chart, Miona is lower than Mizuki but higher than Yoda in terms of public recognition and public interest and she beats both of them in terms of relative interest. So I would say Miona should be on the same tier as Mizuki and Yoda.

But of course popularity is not the sole reason why a PB can sell well or not. Mizuki and Yoda are more daring for sure and their PB are released at a better timing.

 

Still dodging questions as always, aren't you? Maybe you should for once learn something from other peoples explanations, because you are as uninformed as ever. And saying she should graduate because 'fans' are being the usual asshats? Do you actually read your own posts when you hit the reply button? God almighty.

 

Haizz, after reading my comment, you show me the nikkei talent chart? and only that? So what about the indicators I mentioned? If someone asks why, those are the basic indicators in Nogizaka
Her PB continues to sell, and this is just the first week, when her loyal fans put money to buy it as soon as possible
If she is really has popularity as you say, sales will keep rising as much as you think Maybe close to yoda or yamashita?
If not, then everything is as usual
It is not necessary to quote me, when there is total PB sales after 2 or 3 months, will have its own answer
Instead of complaining about the sales, congratulations to her for releasing the 2nd PB, and sold that number - dream of many members, many of them have no chance to release PB

 

You dont have to compare with Yoda and Yamashita coz even Kubo and Umezawa have better numbers than Miona.

But that doesnt Matter in Mgt eyes coz lately they're using Representative system wherein everygen have a rep in 1st row. See Cupstar Cm for reference.
As long as Miona is ahead of any 2nd gen, She will be Ace
While Kubo have to be perfect to be even considered as 1st row coz her competition tougher than Miona .

 

do you realy read my comment?
I'm the only one here who says don't compare hori with them

 

This is still about that Nikkei ranking list right? In that table aren't umezawa have a lower number than miona, and kubo doesn't even get ranked in?

 

For all its best and worth, some fans may don't like her because according to them she is a sole rep for 2nd gen, but it's not like coz Miona is 2nd gen rep then mgmt has continuously push her; she started off airdropped, then in the next few single her position started to get worse, she even became an under member more than once. But before the 3rd gen debut she has already regained her position as fukujin, not because of mgmt push but because her own hard work (i think the gen rep thing started in 20th single as there are no 3rd gen member in 19th single's senbatsu)

Lastly regarding her pb sale number, covid19 doesn't only made japanese people hesitate to go outside but also caused a lot of them to be jobless especially the one that work part time (the same situation anywhere else in the world that have been hit hard by this pandemic). Buying an idol photobook have a lower priority than daily meals, if yoda and mizuki pbs are sold at this condition i doubt they will have that high of sales number

 

We could say that for Hori is lucky to be a 2nd gen member rather than a 3rd gen, there's less competition and she's the undeniable representative and strongest of her gen, while for 3rd gens battle is harder.

But talking about "push"... she's never been pushed that hard. I though she was going to be the next ace and compared with Ashurin for the next gen but they went more to Yoda, Endo... she's obviously always been pushed as the representative of 2nd gen, but she's never been pushed as an ACE of the group as much as the Nishino/Shiraishi pair or the current Asuka-chan. I could say she's on an Ikuchan level for management RIGHT NOW. But she had to struggle much more to reach that level for management, she even went to undergirls at some point, while new girls like Yoda and Endo have been put at the top since now with less struggle. So Hori has a good position right now in management's eyes but she had to struggle amd suffer for it.

 

That long post seems interesting to read, but damn my eyes can't read that much emoji in one post.

 

@mayuri91 : Although it pains me to admit it, I have to say I agree some of your points. However, your disapproval of Miona being prominent seems to be spawned from your personal (maybe even unconscious) dislike toward her rather than from you being objective and that invalidates your arguments. The most absurd idea that you keep trying to advocate is that Miona is "pushed" AT THE EXPENSE of other 2ki and she is in turned hated for that.

For the sake of argument, let's just pretend for a minute that what you said is true and Miona is being "pushed" by the management because and only because they want to give 2ki a representative (I believe Miona being the only prominent 2ki does help her somehow but that is not a main factor). At the result of your so-called "push", Miona is basically stealing the chances of other 2ki to be in the spotlight. Now let's us pretend for a second minute that the management wake up one day and decide they should stop "pushing" her. Do you really think that they will save that chance for other 2ki? Do you think that they will give her spot to Kiichan or Maichun or any other girls? I highly doubt that. They will just ignore 2ki altogether. Therefore, Miona is not stealing anyone's chance. The idea of 2ki representative only works because they have a relative strong member like her. If there is no Miona, there is no 2ki representative as well. Using 2ki as a reason for your bias against Miona is ridiculous.

@No thing : I agree with you regarding that we should consider multiple indicators in order to identify how popular a girl is (my line of work has a lot to do with data analysis that's why I'm 100% for using empirical data). However, firstly, most of data are not available to us fans therefore, in many case, it's pretty much just a guessing game. Secondly, given the scarcity of those data, when someone present to you with a set of data available to fans which is the Nikkei Talent Chart (this is totally relevant as one of the indicators that you look for), you just dismissed it. Does it seem hypocrite to you?

In fact, if you have a hand on other indicators, I would be really glad if you can share them with us. I am not challenging you to provide evidence or anything. I am just personally interested in those data myself.

@Halyup : Now that Maiyan had graduated, 1ki aces only have Asuka and Ikuchan left (Manatsu, Kazumi and Sayuri are all invaluable members but they are more of supporting roles now). Many believe Mizuki and Yoda are still at the same level with Miona. Personally, I think they are pulling ahead though not by a very big margin. But let's just be generous and consider that they are way ahead of Miona. So there are 4 members who are ranked above Miona and let's assume that she will have absolutely no chance catching up with them.

Now considering the next tiers, you seem to be of opinion that even Kubo and Umezawa should be ranked above Miona which is really absurd. All things considered, I still think they are still one level behind her (handshake is the only thing they can beat Miona but it's not like they wipe the floor with her or something). But once again, let's be generous and put them slightly ahead of Miona for now.

Lastly, let's throw in Sakura and Kaki in to the mix, assuming the management want to keep 4ki present among the aces. Surely, you don't think Sakaura and Kaki are also above Miona, do you? So I will be very generous again and put the slightly behind Miona.

So in a typical Senbatsu formation with about 7-9 front line member, if 4 spots are already occupied by default (Asuka, Ikuchan, Mizuki and Yoda), it's a fair game for 5 girls (Miona, Kubo, Umezawa, Sakura and Kaki) to fight for the last 3-5 spots. In that kinda race, if Miona gains a little edge over other girls just because she is the sole 2ki member. Is it such an utterly atrocity? Does the management commit such an absolute crime if they pick Miona, who btw has been through much more than other girls and thus has contributed much more to the group?

And tbh, I don't understand the Kubo hype at all. I don't want to judge because I don't know much about her. Maybe she is a real talent (although I can't figure what her talent is about) but I am pretty sure that she is not as good as her fans make her out to be. You act as if it's an established fact that Kubo is more popular that Miona and she deserves to be ranked higher. I am completely confident that most of neutral fans will laugh at that idea. My take on her is that Kubo is not only ranked below Miona but also some other girls as well (Monoko and Umezawa). Heck, I would take Sakura and Kaki over Kubo any days and nights (but this is just me being biased). Kubo ISN'T above Miona, SHOULDN'T be above Miona and SHALLN'T be above Miona FOR NOW. She is still young, I don't deny her potential. In one or two years, things may be different but not NOW.

 

@tpt13: Such data is quite common on 5ch and twitter, it easy to search. If you are a fan of hori and nogizaka, find out for yourself before you complain. send you some links
https://aknog.github.io/srdata/
http://itest.5ch.net/subback/nogizaka
Go there and find out for yourself, if you don't know Japanese, you can use Google Trans.
Ah, it seems some people think I'm hypocritical? So is it good when trying to force an idol up and complaining when it's not as expected?
I'm lazy to keep arguing
@sambelteri12: sorry about that. That's my familiar habit, and I don't like to read a long paragraph full of letters

 

The 5ch site is literally filled with porn. Is the data you found there credible/ officially provided by Nogizaka46 or were they just baseless assumptions created by fans of Nogi?

I know for sure that there's no way the official records would be publicized by the company handling the group. So the "data" you found in there are also just guesses. You can't analyze that and use it to scale Miona's popularity.
_______________________________________________
This is just my opinion, but I think a lot of Miona's fans are women and I think she's purposely targeting them judging from the contents of her IG and her blog being very female oriented (e.g. makeup, fashion and such). Maybe this is also why she's not being "pushed" by nogi's mgmt compared to other girls because they know Miona is not that popular to the majority of Nogizaka46's fans as a whole whom are still men, and Miona herself is not interested in doing things just to attract them... like, you know.

I think she'll get the real "push" from the group's mgmt once she decided to become a daring girl capable of amassing a large fanbase filled with men (they bring the money after all).

 

If you think like that, I have nothing to refute, it's pointless.
Like I said, wait a bit longer, and the results will be there. Not for long, only 2-3 months.

 

if we based it on the nikkei surveys, actually Hori's trajectory is improved, but so did zukki and yoda--well, most of nogi did.
2020: http://stage48.net/forum/index.php?attachments/nikkei-current-jpg.276004/
2019: https://twitter.com/maiyanee/status/1135054175174299648
2018: https://twitter.com/maiyanee/status/990294016351723520

one thing is that: it didn't directly translate as PB (or merchandise) sales. girls like Ikoma(in the past), manatsu(recently), Kazumin, Matsun(post-scandal), Reika are always high in that kind of list but they didn't that big as sellers.
the sales-based thing I believe is reflecting interest within the fandom; like singles sales, more internalized; which that besides the amount of loyal fan one can gather or established, but also the community's hype. relatively I believe the PB data sales can be overlapped. a person can buy one but multiple regardless of who is her/his oshi, the variation of that.

but if Hori's fans here worry that PB sales will have a certain impact regardless of the circumstances and COVID apparently affecting the economy, from what I can see and I guess other has resent, she will and still remains an important member in the group. And actually I believe the sales not that bad and still can improve--it's just, again, a can't be helped situation.

While the competition has become fierce, especially the front row, and the new, fresh girls keep coming, she already established a kind of comfort zone(good eyes with mgmt; fair enough loyalist; generally positive vibe within the fandom). Ask other seniors like matsun, ask kazumin, or hoshino, manatsu, or even shinuchi for how fun is that, unless something happens that prevents it, they'll remain stay as regular.

if anything, maybe the bite goes by saying her case right now is a bit stagnant while the attention and interest for young gen are running amok.
this goes by concluding that maybe realistically one should burn the dream of seeing Hori as center except, probably for the graduation(?).