Single Sakurazaka 2nd [BAN] (2021/04/14)

Even though the main songs were pretty good in this single, I believe the current approach won't get them anywhere near the heights they were aiming for. New fans are not coming in droves, while the old ones are slowly losing their enthusiasm. I can see it happening even around these parts.
Unfortunately, 'pretty good' and 'playing it safe' just isn't working. First and foremost, as many mentioned before, they need a proper hit. The one that will get the group right back in the spotlight. And yes, I'm calling for more experimenting and less predictability. As @ukifune put it, there is no need for three Nogizakas to exist. Sakurazaka seriously needs to find its own core concept, around which they can build the group up. Something to distinguish them from the sister groups.
Second, they need publicity. There're no superstar members who can generate public interest by themselves, so the only option is to attract the masses using the group-wide efforts. Make a Sakubingo, I don't know... Listen S&F, if YouTube and SNS is not working for you, at least put your members' pretty faces and lovely voices on TV and radio. Do it the old-fashioned way. Hell, from the looks of it, Hinatazaka was practically everywhere in 2019 and it sure did help.
It pains me so much seeing Sakurazaka losing its momentum already. This is not how you restart a group. Either you do it properly or revert to Keyakizaka.

 

Agree with the comments about not needing 3 Nogi groups. Leave the elegant stuff to Nogi, and the happy to Hinata. Tone down all that pinkiness, and bring back the artsy, cool image back to Sakurazaka . Now cool and edgy don't necessarily mean "emo" (just in case so that some people won't get excited) . And S&F, give the girls THE hit song, Saimajo-level or above, we all are waiting for.

BTW, coincidence or not, in the the BAN MV half the costumes had a good portion of blue, and in Ten's MV all members are wearing blue. Let's not forget blueish/teal/greenish was the original color of Keya. I personally have no issues with dying those white dresses blue.

 

I think is a bit too late to go back even if SnF wanted to... and I doubt they'd want it.
Too late for members, who have already lost keyaki and are trying so hard to build Sakura (I felt Pon wasn't being smart with her declaration, but this doesn't mean the girls aren't doing everything they can to help the group).
Too late for fans who already went away, and the ones who are watching Sakura wondering if this is really what the group we love deserves.
Too late for a PR campaign which started well but looks like it doesn't have the strength to go on.

Sakura can only be Sakura. Finding a new path different from Nogi, Hinata AND Keyaki is the only way.... but I'm not sure mngmnt has the qualities needed to find it and build it up.

 

Wow, I see an avalanche of sincere thoughts and worries coming in... OK, so most of you think it's about time to address the elephant in the room: the whole thing doesn't seem to work (yet), eh?

Yesterday I went through and read all the posts in this forum thread about the 2nd single. The average feeling went from anticipation to enthousiasm to doubt to worrying. What a roller coaster of feelings! I myself took part in this (as I've read my own posts as well). To what extend most of us here showed signs of "bipolar disorder"? To what extend were we trying to persuade ourselves that everything is OK and Sakurazaka will rule the world?

I've already expressed my worries that we don't see Sakura girls a lot outside their own show. @turbogig mentioned that last year Hinatazaka were practically everywhere and yes they did, they were practically everywhere. The buzz about Hinata was and still is enormous. So promotion issue no.1 ? Check!

Single 2 is a "me too" just with stronger songs. OK, nobody was expecting a second Silent Majority to start with, but the reception and numbers for single 1 didn't seem to make any stir withing S&F. It seemed that nobody felt uncomfortable on their chairs.

Let me tell you a truth (my possible truth, at least): There will be no second Silent Majority guys! Just because the dark has gone. The novelty has gone. The originality has gone. There are no military uniforms, no aggressive formations, no sharp, abrupt and "ugly" moves in choreographies and finally... no unity (in the form of all girls on stage, no shichifukujin, hachifukujin, sakufukujin, saku8 bu$%^#$%t!).

There is no point going back to Keyakizaka, going back with what? With pink dresses and sakura petals? Going "guns and roses"? No, and I bet we wouldn't want it neither, the girls themselves wouldn't want it above all. Our interest has shifted. Yes, it happens to me, I see it too from the frequency and passion of posts in this very forum. Me, myself is spending a lot of time listening to "Atarashii Gakkou no Leaders" the big revelation just because they are so unique and... borderless! I got the same fresh feeling as when I first listened to Keyakizaka 3 years ago.

Keyakizaka was filling an enormous gap in the idol landscape: the gap of black, dark, deep, introvert, revolutionary, elusive, berserk, poking fingers in wounds of modern society and youth all with exhibiting a unique image like a semi-military unit of warrior maidens. This space is now become a new gap... but an enormous gap, a void, like the silence coming after a huge explosion: the silence is even more deafening! Keyakizaka was gone and its silence is still haunting us! Sakurazaka cannot and must not try to fill this gap. They have to move back again and they cannot do it smoothly and seamlessly, it would take time and effort (and even if achieved, it will be after too many graduations in the process). That will shatter both the legacy of Keyaki and the future of Sakura!

S&F must find a new gap. Sakurazaka is the imouto here, there are two older, competing sisters with similar characteristics. There is no place for a third. Sakurazaka should become the second child again (second in character not in sales - we're aiming for the top). And as most second children in families of three, it is the weird one, the eccentric one, the introvert-to-the-extremes (or extrovert-to-the-extremes), the aggressive, the PROVOCATIVE.

I have stressed the last word because this is in my humble opinion the road they must take. By provocative I do not mean sexy, not at all. I have in mind the image of a successive woman in life, sassy, authoritative, doubting, experimenting, hedonistic, enjoying pleasures in life. Taking into account the existing mix (pink and white, sakura petals etc etc) but also the age of the girls in the group I believe that Sakurazaka needs to draw attention NOT by being cutesy but through extreme "authoritative femininity". Atarashii Gakkou are 4 schoolgirls that mix jazz, acid jazz, Japanese folk and Showa-era tunes, punk, rap and blues together. Let Sakurazaka develop based on music (and choreos) outside the typical J-pop idol standards. Have them show BOTH: songs based on ALL girls again AND small groups (abandon that sakura8 idiocy ASAP). There is such a unique mosaic of different characters and personalities in the group - a real paradise for creative minds to build upon! And of course music is omnipotent. Try jazz/acid (moderns Japanese jazz is making miracles and are producing jewels), get collaborations with new emerging indie groups willing to compose for Sakurazaka46 and get aknowledgement through such a collab, take advantage of the AMAZING apparell they already have and use (their uniforms are without doubt the very BEST), their uniforms alone can give life to amazing presence on scene. But use all this in an aggressive and PROVOCATIVE way...

I am sure the girls are willing to try anything new (as far as it's decent) and go into extremes, IF offered. And finally, if S&F cannot deliver, then try "rebranding" the management team as well (pun intended)!

 

I signed up to offer my two cents. I think all their songs have been great so far. The last one is probably my favorite. Although it would have been better if it included the entire group. I guess that's one thing that made Keyaki special and is perhaps missing now. I do agree that they are playing it a bit safe. They need to do something that will leave the audience with their mouths open.

But it's hard to re-start. They were fresh faces when they started. Now they have a history behind them, and nostalgia (which leads to comparisons) will always exist. It's not as simple as changing the group's name. I still think they're great, and I love the new songs, but when I show them to people who have never heard of them, I can tell that the wow factor is missing.

 

What declaration?? If you mean the "Let's surpass Keyaki" from the name reveal then you might want to blame management instead since she's just reading off a script. Outside that, I think that none of the members actually used the word "surpass Keyakizaka" when talking about Keyaki

Edit: Also people should stop asking / hoping for management to give them "another Saimajo like hit song" because it's not that easy and there are a lot of X-factors involved

Right now Sakurazaka is in the middle of finding new identity, which is still abstract and hard to tell at this point because they release songs with so many differing genres and styles (Which is also becoming their style)

Even if they decided to go full emo and way more rock than Keyakizaka, there will be not that much shock factor because Keyakizaka taken that thunder already

Some people might be feeling impatient right now because Keyaki had such a meteorite rise at the start and then just continued to rise since then

 

It may be too late for some things, but for other stuff, it's never too late. It's never too late for fans who left and wants to be back. It's never too late for fans still cheering for them, and lastly, it isn't too late for the members as well as the stuff.
I am a fan of jpop, and looking at things, the industry is hit hard from the pandemic. For groups or artists who had things smooth for them, it can be seen that although things have changed, they still have it going well. So we see nogi and hinata at said position. Sakura wasn't lucky enough, given the situation, cos their activities are limited since they're being treated as a re-debut group. So while the rest are busy, we see them not so busy with outside jobs. Hinata and nogi currently have occupied most idol jobs and since hinata is especially also with s&f, it wld be difficult to relieve them from some of the jobs and put a sakuzaka member there. We can see that by the collaborating jobs that is going on now. In a more negative way, i feel favoritism is being played here too. This is why i really appreciate AEON and now summoner's war for continuing with them/picking them up. They still have their models. We are seeing Aeon and summoners war bringing out the acting from the members too. We are finally seeing members getting some jobs. It will all come out well. It's just slow for them at the moment

 

- “There’s no superstar members who can generate public interest by themselves”. Lol. That’s not how it works and that certainly isn’t what happened with Keyaki at the start. The hit song is what generates public interest followed by the individual. Not the other way round. Also this kinda comment is idk ...insulting.
- How do you re-debut a group? Especially in the middle of a pandemic????
- Remind yourself that Keyaki peaked in early 2018. They’ve been losing fans. 700k something was Kuroi’s first week sales? Correct me if I’m wrong. Yea it’s not a Sakurazaka thing where fans are being lost. They’ve been losing fans (2) and recent events I.e. the re-debut increased that.
- You need a hit hit song for fans to be coming in droves. You already know. Keyaki fanbase increased dramatically around 2017 not after Silent majority btw. To be more specific fans really started increasing around Futari saison era and then increased further when Fukyouwaon was released. So keyaki needed 3-4 singles to really gain traction with their fanbase and not become a one hit wonder with fukyouwaon. Although this is is still kinda fast, it’s helpful to have a hit at debut after all, it shows these things take time. I feel like a lot of you people are stuck in 2018.

 

Exactly. It seems ppl have forgotten that there is a pandemic and the world, not only Japan is reeling from it. Things are not as before. They re-debuted, but at a time when the world is at its worst. So how do you promote a new group at this point. When keyaki was dying, they went through the same treatment given to a dying group: no one wanted to pick them up. They went for the trending ones. AEON was one of the outside jobs, if not the only, that stuck with them. So they literally started with AEON only but now has more. That can also be counted. They ARE getting jobs but much slower given the situation.

Also, lets say its not the pandemic. Who is to blame? Surely not the girls, cos they're doing their job alright. Mgmt arent just pushing them out there. To start pinpointing, we will have to wait for after the pandemic. As a fan who loves the group, i cld have lost them, but very glad to see them alive again, and even if no one wants anything to do with them, someone definitely out there wld want to, & that time will surely arrive

Abt losing/gaining fans, before re-debut, their twitter account had around 1,110,000 followers. Looking at their number now, they gained almost 80000 followers after rename. Twitter is currently going through numbers again so we see some declining and rising. It might not be convincing but yeah, they lost followers , and gained followers and until their faces are put out there, it will be up and down

 

I agree that people are being naive when it comes to hit songs. Did Silent Majority really become a hit song because of the song itself or because it was their debut and it was an unconventional song for an idol group? Don't forget that they were also the first Nogizaka sister group and many eyes were on them so the fact that they debuted with a song that didn't fit with the Nogizaka style made Silent Majority's impact even bigger.

I completely disagree with including all members. I honestly think Keyakizaka should have been like Nogizaka from the beginning, with a senbatsu system. Management emphasized the whole "21" thing way too much (remember the negative reactions 2ki got when they were announced? 2ki have even talked about them.). I wish S&F was doing that with Hinatazaka as well but tbh I think once Hinatazaka gets the senbatsu system it won't be as bad because S&F isn't emphasizing the whole ~bonds thing as they did with Keyakizaka (yet another case of S&F learning from Keyakizaka's mistakes).

Of course the wow factor is missing. S&F mismanaged Keyakizaka but they seem to be doing an even worse job with Sakurazaka. I don't even know what the re-debut accomplished (I'm talking strictly numbers here, not the members' feelings). I feel like it would be less painful if they continued with Keyakizaka because at least they'd perform the old Keyaki songs. I see all the time people on twitter wondering if they'll ever perform those songs again (they obviously won't). Which is normal because Sakurazaka has Keyaki fans, not many (or any) new fans.

 

honestly 1st single sold really well considering the circumstances. If face to face hs was still happening they would’ve sold even more. I would say rather than hit songs or anything it’s handshakes that really motivate Japanese fans. NF stayed in oricons top 10 for at least 2 months or so. That is fantastic.

 

- I humbly disagree with your first statement. Both prominent personalities and quality songs contribute to the group's overall image, appeal and public recognition. Once a performer passes a certain threshold they are able to generate hype purely by participating in a single, with almost no regard to a single actually being good. This is what stardom is. This is what She-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named was. It was mentioned multiple times that any group needs that special crazy wota appeal to reach any real numbers. Besides, there is nothing insulting in stating the fact that Hinatazaka currently has at least 3 or 4 members who have more pull than any Saku member. And I'm not even mentioning well established Nogi divas like Saito Asuka or Hori Miona.
- How do you re-debut a group? Hell if I know! This stupid ass idea was not mine, to begin with. S&F decided to shake things up during a pandemic and here they are. Stagnating. The group has arguably the same amount of jobs/promotion it had in 2019, i.e not that much.
- Speaking of losing fans. Yes, it started soon after GaraWare, but despite it Ambivalent still sold over 1mil overall. Kuroi Hitsuji had a drop, but still sold over 900k copies. Yet they always had decent YouTube views. It's not tied in any way to handshakes, it's not tied to Corona. Now the situation has changed and to me it's more worrying than the slight decrease in Keya's overall sales.
- Yes Keyaki sales started to increase in 2017? Why? Starting with Fukyouwaon every consequent single had a new and completely different concept. People were eager to see what will they do next. I can't see that happening with Sakurazaka now, sadly they don't seem to have any aces up their sleeves. You might say they Nobofa and BAN are different enough. Even Sekai ni was more of a step in different direction than BAN has been so far. Never mind comparing Futari Sezon to Fukyouwaon or Kaze Ni.

 

Yeah you’ve lost me. You need to get over yourself. Techi didn’t reach that so called height you described until late 2018. Not in her debut year. In fact the good sis name is still mentioned with “Ex-Keyakizaka”. The keyaki brand helped her not the other way round. Don’t even go into the whole “but she was keyaki”. It’s always hit song > individual.
- hinata members ....lol. will leave that one because I don’t want to be negged badly but yea loooool.
- kuroi was the weakest era for Keyaki. It had to do well in the long run. You’re comparing a single that sold 750k first week to one that sold 1M. Heck Kazeni did better. And that era was not creating waves. Ambivalent followed garasu hype but doesn’t change the fact that early 2018 was truly Keyaki’s peak. A peak is a peak darling. Ask yourself why.
- No the sales didn’t increase because of your sweet little think piece. Fukyouwaon was just that big of a hit. The general public aren’t gonna look into things so deeply like you. You totally ignored the obvious and instead insist on romanticising your “reasons”. You either check in with reality or simply stop talking about sakurazaka altogether because everything you ever say on this forum is wrong. Also you’re a self proclaimed Hirate believer. Why should I take your essays on sakurazaka well being seriously? Serious question. Because all I see is pure projection.

The fact you used miona as an example shows how truly little you know or understand.

 

@too much idea no, I wasn't talking about that, I was talking about the whole "Sakura will be the most hyper great super national group" declaration lol
Something I felt very Pon-like in its lack of humilty. And before you all say I hate Pon, no, I don't hate her. I like her very much, I liked her very much since years and I hoped she would have got way more chances to shine and grow than she had, but she's also human and sometime she show it a lot. And guess what, I like her for that too.
Still disagree with some of her choices.

I said Sakura should be different from Nogi, Hinata AND Keyaki and I still believe so. I actually believe they should be very different from Keyaki, which is a close chapter by now. It doesn't matter the direction but it has to be a CLEAR direction.. something Sakura is lacking right now. I'm really surprised by this discourse, since it was the reason for this awful rebranding and more so from the misunderstanding about the hit song.
Of course we need it.
Not to play comparision with Silent Majority or Fukyouwaon, but to make more people outside of the fandom bubble notice Sakura and start following them.

@Philosophy Senpai Nice choice with Atarashii Gakkou lol I follow them too

Kuroi Hitsuji still sold 900k copies with the worst campaign EVER. Still a sore point for me since I find it pratically perfect.

 

The girls are saying what they want the group to be. They are allowed to dream bigger than before. We all do that and sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn't. One thing for sure is that those dreams don't just come true in a matter of seconds. They have a long way to go and they know it. They aren't oblivious to all that is happening. They know they lost fans. They know ppl are against them. They know the lack jobs. Yet still they say boldly that they wanna travel overseas, they wanna be bigger than before. They can make it happen. So saying Pon wasn't smart at her declaration is like stamping on her dreams. They are a mainstream idol group and we all know these wishful thinking normally happens so let them wish

 

Stamping on her dreams...
God!
I understand you guys think this is a battle by now, but try to not go too far with this kind of statements and the automatic dislike button. It's fine if there's a constructive discourse, but here it's getting quite ridiculous starting from Hikaru height onwards.
The girls are allowed to say what the hell they want @Iamyoung they could yell profanities from the top of Buddies building and I would still love them, and support them and pray against all the odds they'd succeed. But as a fan, and a paying fan by the way, I believe I'm also allowed to think somethings are better left unsaid.
Sometime there's no need for great declarations, not so soon at least.
Perhaps is to not jinx it? Maybe it's just matter of personality... it's my opinion and once again, I'm allowed to have it.
Shocking as it may seems

 

I'm really out of words reading what you just wrote. Really! Sometimes there is no need for great declarations? Really? REALLY??? Well, yeah, it's your opinion but im really surprised that someone with your understanding cld think something like that!

Anyway it's always like this on this thread. I just don't know what the girls can do to make most of us happy. Soon. Oh so very soon, some of us wld be back here either rejoicing or regretting

 

Idols always say stuff like let’s surpass xxx all the time. Heck nogi’s entire concept was based on surpassing akb. You are for real projecting or looking too deep into things that don’t exist.

 

Whew, and here I thought we were having a civilized discussion. My bad.
You win.

 

When did Pon say this? I only remember members, not just Pon, mentioning they'd like to become a national group because sakura is Japan's national symbol (in fact they repeated this so many times that it's obvious it's a management fed line lol).
You say you like her but I feel like I only see you criticize her (that's why I disliked your post).

As for Keyaki sales it seems to me like people are forgetting how much Hiragana was helping. Kyoko, Katoshi, Nao are members who rivaled Keyaki's top members in popularity without getting nearly as much exposure and they have definitely contributed to Keyaki's sales. It's naive to ignore that. That's why I really wished Keyaki had at least released a single after Hinatazaka's independence just to see how much of a change it would have been without Hiragana, but oh well, we all know what happened with Hirate and 10gatsu and management of course would have rather killed the group than to choose a new center. Besides, we also have covid that has certainly impacted sales. Nobody's Fault came very close to beating Kyun's sales without national handshakes that have a big impact on sales.