1. Check the 2023 Stage48 Member Ranking Results, how did your Oshimen rank this year?

[GENERAL] The Sakurazaka46 / Keyakizaka46 Thread

Discussion in 'General Sakurazaka46 Discussion' started by ForrestFuller, Jun 28, 2015.

  1. Seele

    Seele Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2020
    that explains why she never appears in keyakake
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  2. valerien

    valerien Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2019
    • Like Like x 3
    • Winner Winner x 1
  3. Rev4

    Rev4 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2019
    After have watched the preview of documentary of Keyaki it's safe to say all lies created by anti as rumors and mngmt being silent for a long time all comes together now. The real villain and cause of Keyaki not getting out a single for a whole year is mngmt's fault.

    Anti and mngmt were foolishly believed Keyaki can't survive without Hirate. All lies about 1ki don't want new members and stay as "21" is actually mngmt who wanted that. They put themselves into this corner when they did not believed the group could survive without Hirate. It was them who wanted to cancel Budokan for Kanji and put high pressure on Hiragana members. All Kanji members wanted to perform even without Hirate like they proved for mngmt with 2nd annila but mngmt still didn't care.

    This lie about toxic environment between members created by anti and mngmt being silent. They never supported the girls when it was actually them who was toxic to the group but didn't wanted the truth to come out among fans.

    I wonder if some executives in Seed & Flower will resign after this documentary and they need to hire new ones who believe in a system where every member participate. I want to see Run-chan's drum solo, Endo's amazing dance track, etc. Individuality on the concert like Nogi with Keyaki's colors.

    One thing is for sure though, Hirate took "dark cool concept" with her when she quit Keyaki. No other member can express this hatred inside herself like Hirate had for mngmt's treatment of her and the group she loves. Kado wo magaru was her final goodbye to mngmt and anti. She wants to be free.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. Iamyoung

    Iamyoung Future Girls

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    I can only say one thing, that mgmt didn't expect it will get this far. But what were they expecting when they allowed so much hate and lies to surround these girls? All eyes have been on them since they put everything on Hirate's shoulder. It might not be true, but I think the girls were left alone to struggle with whatever was happening, something which, funny enough, was created by the mgmt themselves. Some good person might have gone inside to stir something up, hence making the documentary. Bringing out a documentary also make me think that there surely must have been some reshuffling in mgmt too. The trailer is short but lots of clues are in this short preview and the girls' blogs says it all.

    At this point, I can say I am proud I defended them. These girls are humans and are bound to make some typical human errors but I was surprised antis couldn't look behind some simple facts to know these girls are the one suffering.

    I remember replying to an anti who wrote the girls were not united, that these girls are definitely not faking the bond we see. I figured they might not have been fans for so long because then they will know that Aki-P wrote songs just to create some tension between them because he thought they were too close, there is no such competition between them like other groups. Now remembering this, I can say the girls were scolded and criticized by their own mgmt way back in their shining days therefore creating that bond which they never wanted to let go. I understand right now, why they all seem to protect Hirate because they knew she was the main victim here.

    Antis could have just seen a little truth in all these but they were blinded by Hirate's centering all singles and the lies from whatever sources. They allowed themselves to be manipulated when they could have seen that, the girl was depressed and yet she is being asked to do things she probably never wanted.

    A bright Techi in the beginning, so happy to live an idol life, suddenly fell into a dark mood girl who hardly shows her face nor smile and ppl thought she was selfish and such! Some even had the audacity to say she was autistic. Shame on them all!!

    My emotions are running wild now & I need to stop writing but I will say this again. I am proud I defended them and still support them because they were needing it all these times. I hope they are able to get some satisfaction that finally, for once in their career, what they want to say will be portrayed to us through this documentary.
     
    • Like Like x 8
  5. DelicateEmpress

    DelicateEmpress Upcoming Girls

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2019
    Oshimen:
    hirateyurina
    That staff said “Can’t Keyakizaka survive without Hirate? Everyone totally collapsed.” This sounds more like a reminder/encouragement (worded as scolding) that members were stronger and better than whatever performance they put on previously and they needed to get themselves together for their next performance asap. Mmg messed up so many things but I don’t think the staff in the doc should be criticized for sth he probably didn’t do. And I don’t think mmg would be that stupid (or brave?) to expose themselves in a group document. They have never protected the girls from any rumors and we’re expecting them to take all the blame for themselves? Nah, not gonna happen.

    Also the last time the Budokan issue came up, I went to check the translation of some members’ blogs about the issue. One reason that the majority of them had was that they didn’t have enough time to practice all the formation and setlist again to an acceptable/satisfactory level (since that includes changing formation/choreo for 20+ songs) in two weeks. How much of that was true I don’t know. Would it be better to underperform or was it better to not performing at all? I personally think that they should have still performed regardless but what’s done is done. I hope a more extended answer will be provided in the doc. Members seem satisfied with the doc-making progress (they said that the doc will contain what they’ve been trying to say but couldn’t) so I’m eager to see how it will turn out.
     
  6. Rev4

    Rev4 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2019
    Another thing that adds up and doesn't make sense when I saw some fans blamed Konno for this who is CEO of Seed & Flower. He worked with Nogi before Keyaki was formed. He is now working with Nogi, Keyaki, Hinata and Thinking Dogs. He was part of the Sakamichi Joint Audition who picked 19 new members for Keyaki because AkiP wanted Hiragana to become its own group.

    What actually makes sense is that there has definitely been a internal struggle in Seed & Flower since the shining days of Keyaki that never leaked out. AkiP and Konno picks members for three groups from the audition but something happened with their plans when rest of members who passed were placed in kenshusei prison. Keyaki was ready for new members and a change.

    Konno wanted a senbatsu system but mngmt was not ready to change yet. Still Hirate as the center despite her all injuries and even sitting in a wheelchair. These are decisions made by higher-up executives that are lower than Konno but higher up than staff. You will never be able to see them as they are always in the office.

    When Konno called out names during senbatsu announcement he had a finalized list from mngmt. When Hirate heard her name as center she looked dead inside. She was excited for new Keyakizaka as she said in an interview but not how mngmt wanted to keep going with current form of Keyaki.

    Even Real Sound who is bias towards Keyaki has brought up current form of Keyaki will never be able to show the good side of Ozono Rei, and has to change. It all makes sense now why Hirate changed her personality and AkiP tried to send hidden messages in the lyrics for fans to wake up what is happening inside Seed & Flower. From Jibun no Hitsugi to Kuroi Hitsuji. Hirate's dark mood towards mngmt.

    The way how mngmt has handled scandals had let to graduations. Keyaki won't survive without Hirate led to Zuumin's and Mon's graduations. It's not only about Keyaki, but also Hinata. Mao was also placed in scandal prison and graduated.

    We shall not blame the entire Seed & Flower but there is indeed a group of higher-up executives we will never forgive.
     
  7. Iamyoung

    Iamyoung Future Girls

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    It might be or might not be an encouragement and even if it was an encouragement, they shouldn't expect the girls to look all smiley and stuff, when their own member is pushed over her limit. The girls, in the early days, when interviewed kept saying they aren't allowed to do what they want to do and are often shut down or criticized when they do something out of what is wanted. Isn't if the same mgmt we are talking abt here? They've trained the girls to depend on Hirate so it's normal if they couldn't move on when she isnt around so trying to ask if the girls can't survive without Hirate is pretty mean, when they were the ones who made them so. I want to believe that those words are what alerted the girls but I know it isn't and the only thing that kept them determined is the sanity of Hirate and their love for the group. This is just a preview but the whole documentary is going to reveal a whole lot more. Really looking forward to it.

    Abt Budoukan, it's a lie they were told to say. We all know the answer to what happened. If they couldn't perform bcos of fear of imperfection, hiragana shouldn't perform too bcos they were alerted at the last minute and also had less time to rehearse. But at the end of the day, hiragana performed. I see three things here. It's either mgmt got lost in the cry from hiragana to shine too in their way, therefore allowing them perform and/or mgmt kept asking keyaki to perform & the girls rebelled bcos of Hirate's condition or they wanted to perform but mgmt wouldn't allow bcos Hirate wasn't well and in their eyes, they couldn't do it without her!
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2020
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. ryandtw

    ryandtw Next Girls

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2010
    Location:
    Seattle, WA, USA
    Twitter:
    ryandtw_jpop
    Pausing the saltiness a bit, Aeon Card web movie (7m30s):


    if the video does not show watch the video here
     
    • Like Like x 4
  9. Hunter

    Hunter Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2015
    My japanese level is not good enough to listen clearly what that manager told when the trailer first came and I'm quite confused everyone got mad at management for that scene. But when the sub came, I also interpret that sentence as the good-meaning warning to the member too. That what tutors usually says, sweet words doesn't come that often. That seems to meant members need to be stronger to survive, even without Techi, not "just focus on Techi for everything".


    I understand your love for the girls, but it seems you got too deep in your hatred for the management. I dont think they "trained" the girl to depend on Techi. It's always some problems pop up when there is an outstanding talent exist in a group and it's hard to deal with it the right way. I agree that something gone wrong since Kazefuka, but until Fukyouwaon, I loved the way management swapped 1st and 3rd row girls to give every girl the chance to shine and trying new themes for songs. Having Techi as center 4 times reasonable too, since talent-wise she's wonderful and marketing-wise, they need a constant girl to be the group's face. We should not deny their works, since with member only we can't have that glorious 1 year.

    And to say the girls are criticized when they do something out of what it is wanted is a little bit exaggerate. It's true that member are "scolded", after all they are all fresh in the industry, and need to be educated on things in order to survive in it. It's the professional working environment, so there are rules that they must follow, and we all know how clumsy our members are. It's of course they can't be allowed to do anything they want. The prob only lay at how they are scolded, if it's constructive.

    I too believe management is at fault for many things, especially the marketing department. Something is wrong with the higher-up managers too, especially at dealing with group direction after Fukyouwaon. But for lower managers, and the staff working closely with the member, I think they took care well of our girls, especially the designing, concept making and music department. From the making, we also saw how close members are with staffs, especially when Techi came to hug them and innocently smile with them.

    But let's wait for the documentary to be released, I believe it would explain things, so we should not assumpt anything at the moment. The director of this doc worked on AKB's best docs too so I have such high hope for this. Sorry for the long post
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  10. mayuri91

    mayuri91 Upcoming Girls

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2014
    Location:
    south east asia
    Oshimen:
    shiraishimai
    no, we should wait 10 more years, where at that time the ex keya girls will no longer feel connection and responsibilities with the group. they will spill the truth of what had happened on these days.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. Iamyoung

    Iamyoung Future Girls

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Lol.. You might be right. As of now, I am so angry at mgmt. Well, a year without anything to really connect with the group can make me think they are the worst. Gotta cool down and see how they will handle things now. After all they are the ones still giving us some rare contents.

    Abt my statement regarding them being criticized for doing what they aren't supposed to do, I know idols always have to follow the rules. What I meant to say was specific things which could have helped them now if only mgmt gave them the chance. Say Keyakake. Ppl complain now it is so boring. The girls are boring they say but we have seen in most individual activities they aren't. So why did it happen so? Turns out they were told to tone down their variety skills whenever they get into the variety & this made them conscious everytime there is one.

    Then there are the other ideas brought on by members in Keyakake's 'things I want to do' episodes. Clearly you could see the great things the girls have for variety but they get pushed aside. Some they add like Habu's request on how to greet in Keyakake. They did it once and that was all but it was a variety-like greeting which they could have easily continued with.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2020
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. Dill

    Dill Next Girls

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2017
    Oshimen:
    Techi
    I truly wish @Iamyoung words were only spurred by hate towards mngmnt, but too many wrong things happened in these years to not be negative towards them.
    I think we can wait to see the documentary, but for the worst or good, that may contain only a part of the truth, again.

    I read members' mobame translations and something that hit me in Fuuchan's (if I'm not wrong) is the fact she wrote how in the past there were so many things she, and other members, wanted to say but couldn't.
    This is already a great give away about how stuff was handled by mngmnt.
    But she also said that she hopes the documentary would be made in a way all that stuff wouldn't be cut out.
    Every translation I read seems to have the same message: they want stuff get out.

    My respect for keyaki mngmnt is near to zero, and I think if they will let "evreything get out" it will be for money and not honor or courage.
    What I don't want is for them to hurt Keyaki members even more, because now we know they wouldn't have the chance to speak up for themselves.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. Hunter

    Hunter Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2015
    If I remember it right, Yukka and Nen also mentioned that there were things they want to say but couldn't in this doc, but they also carefully mention that the girls hasn't watch the final version yet, and they "looking forward to see it", so I think at least these 2 captain and fuku caption is aware things might be cut and the whole story may not fully explained
     
  14. techizaka

    techizaka Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2019
    Oshimen:
    Oozono Rei
    • Like Like x 3
  15. Jsprite

    Jsprite Future Girls

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2018
    Location:
    Los Angeles, USA
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. ajma93632

    ajma93632 Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2019
    Oshimen:
    Shiraishi Mai
    I guess that's the difference between graduating and withdrawing a little but important last message for fans so they can feel they're saying goodbye to them.

    About this whole conversation about the documentary, I don't think management is fool enough to admit everything they did but probably there are things they agreed to share with the public. As @mayuri91 said, we should wait 10 years to know what really happened. I do think management is the only responsible here, no matter if anyone else did something, S&F is the only one to blame. I hope with this doc they admit their fault, and ask for forgiveness. In my opinion both Keyaki and Hinata should leave this messy company. But if they don't I still have a little hope S&F will finally do things right, so they better do what they need to do, otherwise I'll wish for both groups to leave S&F.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. miwa

    miwa Upcoming Girls

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2019
    Oshimen:
    Sasaki Mirei
    Why would Hinata leave? Seed&Flower is treating Hinata very well, they seem to have realized their mistakes with Keyaki and they're not repeating them with Hinata. Yes, Nao has been the center for all the singles so far (but Ikoma was the center for the first five singles) but Hinata doesn't seem to revolve around her and she doesn't center all the B-sides as well.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  18. Dill

    Dill Next Girls

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2017
    Oshimen:
    Techi
    I have another question: How a Sakamichi branded group, created/produced by Aki-p and Sony could actually leave by their own decision?
    I don't think it's even possible.
    And it would feel really.. awfull
    Also, yeah, Hinata is getting everything they want and need right now, there's no reason for them to wish to go.

    Nor for us.... mngmnt needs to change and be better.
    It's time to stop putting pressure, responsability and blame on the girls
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  19. ajma93632

    ajma93632 Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2019
    Oshimen:
    Shiraishi Mai
    Because I'm not so sure that Hinata will be fine in the long term, once I see Keyaki is being well treated I'll stop worrying about Hinata too.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  20. Rev4

    Rev4 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2019
    With so many new songs flying around on CM they should release a 2nd album in the summer to end the first chapter of Keyaki.

    A single is supposed to be a secret and start a new chapter with 9th single for fifteen 2ki members in the fall is a smart choice.

    Keyaki's higher-up executives and marketing department have a lot to learn from Nogi mngmt how to manage a group with individuals.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1

Share This Page