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[GENERAL] The Sakurazaka46 / Keyakizaka46 Thread

Discussion in 'General Sakurazaka46 Discussion' started by ForrestFuller, Jun 28, 2015.

  1. Dill

    Dill Next Girls

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    Techi
    Except for a few optimists - some of whom I respect very much and envy even more - there was no one here thinking the girls really wanted the change. It has been obvious since the announcement and evidence piled up everytime someone said something, from Tsuchida to members.
    I'm very loud in my criticism of mnmgnt. I try to not be so loud when it comes to stuff I dislike about some member, but mngmnt? Fair game. Always.
    And yet? Yet we are fans. No matter how much realistic and cynical we are, there will always be a part of us hoping for the best because the alternative is to not expect anything from and for the group we love. The alternative is to admit Keyaki is in the hands of unprofessional and incompetent people whom after having made all this mess can't even do PR damage telling the girl that maybe - MAYBE - giving this kind of answers is not the smartest decision.

    And where exactly is Konno? Everytime we talked about how Keyaki should be or should have been, someone dropped his name in opposition to Aki-P. So, for which part of all this mess is he responsible for?

    Most important, we are here freaking out.... how is j-fandom reacting? A part of me hopes the backslash will be so hard, mngmnt will wake up in Australia; on the other hand, this, once again, would affect the girls in primis and mngmnt would just laugh about the buzz.

    It's so frustrating.
     
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  2. keyak

    keyak Upcoming Girls

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  3. Philosophy Senpai

    Philosophy Senpai Next Girls

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    What really intrigues me to know is how exactly management reached that specific decision. Based on which facts? Were there any intelligence gathering, any market research data on fandom preference, any solid information on the equity of the name "Keyakizaka" and the pros and cons of losing it? I really cannot imagine taking such decisions within the confines of a small group of white collars inside a meeting room. Konno representing Seed & Flower (I guess), Aki-P and Sony are not the only stakeholders here of course... Where and how were the rest of the stakeholders represented? I am referring to the group themselves, the musical producers, Takahiro sensei, Keyakitte-Kakkenai MCs and all the rest of the staff, who have their own share (small or big) in contributing to the final "product" and invested their own time and effort for 4 whole years for that? And of course, the fans, the base of the stakeholders? How vocal were they? I guess not at all.

    Good decision-making is NOT defining good management: it is expected as normal and therefore not rewarded... Bad decision, however DOES define bad management: it is a recipe for disaster and therefore should be avoided at all costs.
    I wish, I really wish I am wrong but this is a TEXTBOOK CASE STUDY of bad management.

    The worst thing however is that even a bad decision on rebranding a shampoo, a beer or even a car model can be remedied (after damage is tallied and absorbed of course). What CANNOT be remedied is when a rebranding involves and hurts human beings, in this case 13 + 8 + 9 + 6 young girls...
     
  4. minaeshi

    minaeshi Next Girls

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    IA, unfortunately tho, the truth is that most entertainment companies are simply filled with incompetent management and staff teams who create more issues for themselves than necessary and never truly learn from their mistakes lol. Seed and Flower in particular have shown us time and time again how incompetent they are, the most obvious example being the Koukahu incident (and the moment i truly accepted that S&F really are just full of shite). Once you have that in mind, nothing they do surprises or angers you anymore..

    As a fan, I can only be content with the fact that the girls have, at the very least, found the resolve to continue on this unknown path and try to become even better idols than what they already are. Since they have this resolve, all we can do is support them through it and look towards the positives.
     
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  5. ryandtw

    ryandtw Next Girls

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    if the video does not show watch the video here
     
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  6. Maeda_Toshiie

    Maeda_Toshiie Kenkyuusei

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    It's always the JP managment calling the shots. Any claims uttered in official announcements on "consultations" and "input" are generally bovine excrement.

    Unlikely. Someone decided that it is good to re-brand the whole thing after Hirate left and the whole group floundering, and that's it. Eh, who knows, maybe Aki-P thought up some new idea of a group, and then the rest of the management took it and then decided to use the Keyakizaka remnants for experimentation...

    I don't think it's a matter of who says what (if they say at all). The top hierarchy calls the shots, and that's it.

    "musical producers, Takahiro sensei, Keyakitte-Kakkenai MCs and all the rest of the staff" don't matter a single whit on this.

    Pretty much. I've seen stupid, weird and bad management decisions from Kadokawa, Avex, Music Ray'n, and Bandai Scamco, because I know about franchises from these companies. They can make decisions to leave blindingly obvious money on the table or just kill off things without clear reasons. I'm sure the "JP management incompetency" affects a lot more companies too.

    The only thing I can be thankful about this is that, they are only re-branding and not disbanding.
     
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  7. Philosophy Senpai

    Philosophy Senpai Next Girls

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    That!

    At the end of day we have to be grateful that they did not kill the whole project.

    On a different note about JP management: Why is there so many incompetence and stubbornness on decisions-they-clink-to-and-refuse-to-reconsider??? I watched recently a Youtube video about the disastrous decisions of Nintendo along its line of existence throughout the 80s, 90s and early 2000... They never learned from mistakes and failures. Why this intelligent, elegant and ingenious people are (sometimes) so bad at management?
     
  8. EinhanderX

    EinhanderX Next Girls

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    Try working from the inside.
     
  9. Philosophy Senpai

    Philosophy Senpai Next Girls

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    I wish it did, but this did not provide any actual reply to my (in any case rhetoric) question. However, and please correct me if I am wrong, it carries a hint of justification as to what management in this specific case has decided to do. If so, I would welcome any elaboration from your part as to why it has been a not bad decision (I do not use the word wise, not even good because it doesn't seem to be as for now)...

    If on the other hand this is not the case, your reply does not make me any wiser. You see, I do work in a multinational environment and no decision is taken without proper evaluation and collected evidence that favors it. Of course there are cases where charismatic leaders (like the late Steve Jobs) are taking the responsibility to do things THEIR WAY or AS THEY LIKE because they had a revelation, vision or hunch feeling about the course of things. But we are talking about leadership driven decisions which is not the case here for Keyakizaka46. In fact the only leader we all saw was poor Sugai announcing the rebranding with a trembling voice backed by a bunch of tear-eyes girls.

    I do believe, actually we all believe, that the post-Tecchi era must be different and the group re-born again. Are they not capable to do it? Of course they can we all saw during the last live. Then what validates the decision to throw away a past of 4 whole years?

    I am sorry but I have no idea of how business is been made in Japan apart from what I see from various sources, series and drama. I guess there is a strict hierarchy and any opposition is doomed to lead to handling the resignation letter but apart from that, I'm not any wiser. And that is what makes me wonder and ask rhetorical questions like the one you commented.
     
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  10. Rev4

    Rev4 Member

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    This whole re-brand thing is mysterious to me. Pon's and Techi's previous idea on sword battle for a Japanese Keyaki Republic makes me think of Run-chan's true wadaiko skills she hasn't performed at a major live yet. Something about 2ki and new 2ki suits this re-brand if it makes sense.

    I wonder what higher-ups and Aki-P are cooking for this group in the future.
     
  11. too much idea

    too much idea Next Girls

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    No. The Japanese Keyaki Republic fan art is just, well, a fan art. Or more like a fan concept

    Yuipon and Techi discussing about sword fighting is something that Yuipon talked about in an interview sometime late 2019 - early 2020, i think?, though I can't remember from which magazine
     
  12. Jsprite

    Jsprite Future Girls

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    I just read Sawabe and Tsucchi's interview of their article on B.L.T. June 2020 edition (Translation by We Tried Subbing).
    https://wetriedsubbing.blogspot.com/2020/06/they-are-always-watching-over-them-4.html

    Interesting article that provides an insight on what the MCs of Keyakitte think of the current state of affairs on the group and some of the members. One thing to note is that they think of Keyakizaka46 as the group where you don't know what will happen next, and that is part of their charm.

    I certainly don't agree with many of managements decisions that that been done over the years, but I wonder if this perceived ineptness of management is done on purpose as a normal "trait" for the group?
     
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  13. techizaka

    techizaka Kenkyuusei

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    Rather than a trait, I see it more like an experiment. In the opposite of hinata whose concept and marketing is done in very carefull and 'orthodox' way, everything decision about keyaki is too reckless. They're trying stuff to see what's gonna happen.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2020
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  14. rdamon42

    rdamon42 Member

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    So its like throwing stuff to the wall and seeing what might stick?

    Doesn't sound like a good strategy for managing anything, let alone and idol group. Heck, that won't even work for a small town book club.

    S&F doesn't have to reinvent the wheel. Idols have been around for long time, there are things that work (put out consistent, good singles) and things that don't (too many to list, sadly).
     
  15. minaeshi

    minaeshi Next Girls

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    I loved reading that article, it seems like they really understand how the members feel so I'm glad they have been there to guide them throughout all of this in whichever way they can. Tsuchi's words especially, you can tell he understands the viewpoints of not only the members, but the fans, the management, and even the general public. They don't really go into whether they think the name change is the right way to go about things, but they offered outlooks that I as a fan didn't really consider (I try to see things from s&f's viewpoint but i'm ultimately not an idol group manager, just a fan who can emphasize with her idols lol).

    I like how they also spoke about past members contributions to the group and keyakake. And also how the current members are trying really hard both on the show and on other variety shows. What hit me the most however was how they commented on how they changed their style of MC'ing to accommodate the members shy and reserved characters. To hear them openly say they changed from the harsh/strict approach to 'pampering', letting them go at their own pace or pushing the members who they believe can take the heat (like fuyuka, nijika, akanen, habu) and praising the members to get a bigger and better reaction from them the next time (rika, she's improved so much!!), it really moved me haha. I always knew they were guiding the girls in their own way, but it's nice to hear them say it themselves, and you can really see the difference in how the general atmosphere in keyakake has been from the start of the show, the middle-when 2ki joined, and now. The mood is so much more vibrant and fun, everyone seems to be having a good time.

    I'm really thankful Sawabe and Tsuchida are the girls, and I hope they continue to remain with them even after they change the show to 'Tasukitte Kakenai?' lmaoo

    *what does Tasuki mean, when saying it as Tasukizaka46?
     
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  16. DelicateEmpress

    DelicateEmpress Upcoming Girls

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    Japanese fans found out new information about Keyaki documentary under this video’s description (the video is not related to Keyaki). It’s scheduled to be released on September 4, with additional footage to best reflect the latest stage of the group, including the rebranding.

    Edit: they set the video to private so I’ll leave the tweet with screenshots here
    https://twitter.com/pon_hirate46/status/1292219503107964929?s=21
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2020
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  17. Conjyak

    Conjyak Member

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    Nintendo is one of the most successful game companies ever. Keyaki in 2018 was the 10th best selling group in Japan at around $40 million give or take. (2019 sales were lower due to releasing fewer singles.) I think management and ownership has created major problems, but when you put that together with the numbers, what it shows really is that the most successful businesses (like Nintendo and S&F) have also had failures. If you look at S&F as a whole, Keyaki and Hinata sold $48 M in 2018 and $55 M in 2019.

    I think management and ownership have had major problems especially in the lead up to the end of 2019 and the beginning of 2020, but no one can deny the overall success of the group. It would have been a reasonable guess to make in 2016 that sister groups would be like sister groups. Yet in 2018, Keyaki sold more than 3 times more than the best 48G sister group, NMB. In 2018, Hinata/Hiragana sold around $7 million (less than NMB that year) and the next year sold around $27 million (3 times more than NMB that year). Again, S&F has major issues, but "objectively", this is an incredible success.

    Tsuchida and Sawabe's interview was done in March or April. Who knows if management leaked them the name change at that point, I don't know. Probably not, especially since Yuuka said that they were told that a name change might take place as they were preparing for the online live, implying that management was in the process of making a final decision at that point (May? June?) but hadn't decided 100% yet... I think, if we are to take management at their word. But who knows.

    I think the management teams of Aki P-style groups want to portray themselves as having to work very ad hoc, as if things are hectic, experimental, decisions made dramatically on-the-fly, emotions running high, environment like a reality show, etc. (Or to create and portray that to be the kind of environment that the members exist in and have to deal with from management. And I think this goes for all Sakamichi groups. Hinata began as Hiragana Keyaki in a weird limbo. Early Nogi sembatsu selections were brutal and later there was Ikoma's kennin.) So there is a certain amount of imperfection or "ineptness" from management that goes along with that, perhaps. IMHO the true ineptness of management and ownership is much more than that and completely surpasses the imperfection and ad hoc-ness that they want to portray for themselves. But I do believe that management wants to sort of portray themselves as an "ongoing project," where fans can feel like they're part of the action as well. After all, sembatsus and these documentaries are obviously also ways to get viewers feeling like they're there when the decisions are made and emotions run high and such. So even if hypothetically the true ineptness that I think management/ownership have doesn't exist - in other words if management was truly perfect and flawless, I think they would still portray themselves as very ad hoc/hectic/experimental/on-the-fly/etc.
     
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  18. EinhanderX

    EinhanderX Next Girls

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    To this day, I still on the side that such portrayal are intended to invoke consumer(read: fans) emotional reaction, "short-wired" them to take action(or if action already taken, double it) on premise that consumer message or demand must be heard. In short, fully-satisfied consumer rarely overspend, triggered consumer do.

    Since you mentioned NMB, I like to mention that despite their net profit above, their management still portrayed themselves as frugal and stingy. I'm personally chuckled reading their catering stories(which is embellished for comedic value) and how it compare to what was seen on Keyakitte backstage episode. This probably work in their favor, while otoh, no Keya fans will ever be concerned to gift a food voucher.

    Also, this need more in-depth research, but in reply to Philosophy Senpai, I never saw idol management/ownership looking perfect/flawless in their own fans eyes. It's always portrayed as partially or totally evil, unless during first year debut, where much is still unknown.
     
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  19. techizaka

    techizaka Kenkyuusei

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    this is ridiculous. Were they planning to announce it (the documentary) 1 week before release too? :hmm: September 4th is in less than a month
     
  20. gish0046

    gish0046 Upcoming Girls

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    In regards to management being perceived as inept, it is interesting that no one ever has anything bad to say about the way Hinata is managed (at least since the name change), despite both being S&F. I hated the way they were managed as Hiragana but I feel like every move management has made since the change to Hinata has been on point. So what's the difference? It could be on purpose, like what has been said above, in order to strike a chord with fans and make them rally around their idols. It could also be that there is a person (or people) in S&F who oversees Keyaki (but not Hinata) who has been making poor decisions. Perhaps the name change could represent not just a new direction for the group but a new direction for management (i.e. bad managers being fired).
     
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