[GENERAL] The Sakurazaka46 / Keyakizaka46 Thread

Discussion in 'General Sakurazaka46 Discussion' started by ForrestFuller, Jun 28, 2015.

  1. Iamyoung

    Iamyoung Rank 81-100 (Temporary Name)

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    Definitely Risa lol. Habu too. These two are sure to get one if they could lol
     
  2. MasToppu

    MasToppu Upcoming Girls

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    I think about Yuuka. She has a small one behind her ears, either symbol or a word. Or, maybe Miichan.
     
  3. Philosophy Senpai

    Philosophy Senpai Kenkyuusei

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    If there would be a Keyaki member with a tattoo, as unlikely as this is for a Japanese person, my bets would go on Mon or Mona.
     
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  4. SteCola

    SteCola Kenkyuusei

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    Aren't tattoos uncommon in japan cause it's a yakuza image thing? There are even onsen or public baths where is forbidden to go in if you have tattoos.
     
  5. Jsprite

    Jsprite Kenkyuusei

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    One or two (relatively small) are probably OK. The ones that bring up that yazuka image are those full-back and or full-body tattoos, in all colors.
     
  6. Maeda_Toshiie

    Maeda_Toshiie Kenkyuusei

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    Suga-

    joking



    As many will know, having tattoos is stigmatized in Japan (in fact in many parts of East Asia too), being mainly associated with the underworld such as the Yakuza (male dominated organizations). Secondly, the legal age for tattoos in Japan is 20. Even after the age of 20, it is a very big sign of rebellion that crosses the line in Japanese society. When seen in public, it invites the rest of the Japanese society (note: if you are clearly non-Japanese looking, they may view it as simply a gaijin thing, but there will be people who will still stare) to judge you. Many places require them to be covered up (long sleeves, etc). You will get rejected at onsens/baths (unless they are run by Yakuza and probably used by other Yakuza). Even tolerant firms will usually require employees with tattoos to cover them up (many will simply reject you if they know that you have). With a tattoo, even if you are not a current or former member of the Yakuza, you can be viewed as a potential troublemaker because you are viewed as someone who cannot follow social norms.

    That said, if the agency forming an idol group want to form a group with a clean image, I think they will require aspirants to declare or even screen them for tattoos. Besides, I doubt Japanese wotas, let alone casual fans will accept an idol with tattoos. Mind you, these are not chika idols but mainstream national idols that appear on prime time TV.

    Yes, you can't cover it up in the baths (no swimwear allowed). Even gajins don't get a free pass on this.

    Unless those small tattoos are in positions that are covered even by swimwear (I'll leave it to you to figure out where), >99.99% no. As an idol who may do modeling and gravure shots for PBs, tattoos are simply not allowed, unless they are doing it for some highly unconventional magazine on tattoos (which I highly doubt will happen for mainstream national idols).
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2020
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  7. too much idea

    too much idea Upcoming Girls

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  8. Dill

    Dill Upcoming Girls

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    What I got from the interview, is that Takahiro sensei is someone Keyaki should not lose in the change, no matter what INTL fans think about him. He's a pro, he likes Keyaki, raises Keyaki quality with his work, and he'd never step back from helping every single member who needs it. Even getting angry at them when it's needed, like he did with Techi.
    It's what teachers do. We had been very lucky to have him.

    It's quite absurd to me that members still do not know anything about what will happen after last concert.
    Not the name, not the concept, not how much time it will take before "debut", nothing.
    It's fine for fans to not know. A little less for whom has to work on it.

    It also worries me that there's still a division between generations.
    2ki doesn't talk about this with 1ki and from Fuuchan/Nijika interview it seems there's a sort of space between 2ki and 2-2ki as well. Hopefully in time it will disappear. Meanwhile 2ki are obviously more in synch with our doubts and pain. They were fans before being Keyaki, as Pon said herself, they feel things 1ki can't.
    Or a part of 1ki.

    It's not lost to me it's been a while we heard from Nijika, and while that word won't be said, the thought is there. Hopefully just another worry that will soon be shut down by her return.

    So far, no interview I read or mobame, made me feel there's a good reason to change name. It doesn't matter, since it's gonna happen anyway; but everything happening this year made me believe the exact opposite. That the girls could have pull off a bright Keyaki future and had to accept a change no one of them really had any say in it.
    Once again, mngmnt didn't even gave them the chance to prove themselves. And yet, in the last months of Keyakizaka, they are demostrating they could succeed.

    A little ironic.
    A little sad.

    The show must go on, anyway.
     
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  9. SteCola

    SteCola Kenkyuusei

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    So Koike basically said that the name change was decided cause the "Keyakizaka" name would just be "bad publicity" for the girls at this point, and it's better for them to not be still associated with it.
    How is that? I've never followed them that much, but it didn't felt to me, that "Keyakizaka" as a brand was so badly considered by the public. Sometimes I even felt they had more general public support than Nogizaka, so what I am missing?
     
  10. STS

    STS Kenkyuusei

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    I couldn't say that people like them... They are like emo-girls. People who like their style like them, people who don't - dislike... (Mostly dislike) They are strange and abnormal, un-normal group. This isn't a good point at all. Their performance always had WTF reaction from public, not WOW reaction. They are a very niche group. Not for all like Nogizaka or AKB
     
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  11. Iamyoung

    Iamyoung Rank 81-100 (Temporary Name)

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    People really shitted on keyaki a lot. Evident can be found on even any keyaki forum (as well as others) here. It was actually bad. Otherwise Yuuka wouldn't have said she wanted to cover her ears everytime the name is circulating. Haters, Bunshun really came all out for the group. Hiragana leaving didn't help either. The scandal, Techizaka, bullying, disrespect and lack of harmony between members, etc, they kept saying. Even though there are facts that says otherwise, haters and antis just kept going with it. Everyone saw. Everyone knew. When they stated the rebrand, everyone understood. Their own mgmt did nothing to ease it. I for one, am glad they could move on from all that. I always say, what goes around, comes around. Keyaki might have been the one mocked here, but it isn't far from other groups. Until it happens to our favourite group, you will never understand

    EDIT: imo I have always felt the members had to fight this fight themselves. They were left alone at their most painful time in the career. Say whatever about the group, I still see & believe in their bond. People on Twitter are now complimenting it when some time ago, they are the same ones listening to Bunshun and saying their relationship is fake. That bond is what made them survive this hardship. If it wasn't for that, they would have totally crumbled. I am glad ppl notice it now thanks to the documentary. It has always been there. F*ck Bunshit.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2020
  12. too much idea

    too much idea Upcoming Girls

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    The way I take it is this

    As unfortunate as it is, Keyaki is too strongly associated with "Hirate Yurina". Going forward, they will continue to be compared to the "Keyakizaka when Hirate Yurina is still there / Old Keyaki", heck even now they are already people who are comparing Darekane with 'previous styles', imagining "If Hirate were still here..." (In Weekly Playboy interview, Yuuka shows determination that if in the future there are still people who are thinking so, that means they lose). In the future, there is no doubt that the new group's rival would be "Keyakizaka46"

    Remember how Yuichanzu received negative comments when they centered Garasu (Personally, i still think of them as Garasu's true Center) and Mou Mori, how members like Yuuka and Yuipon are criticized for not suiting Fukyouwaon and Saimajo's vibe. If people are already acting like this to 1kisei, the "OT21" members, then how would people react to 2kisei or future generations? The "Keyakizaka46" that we know and come to love might and probably will indeed change something else. And as Koike said, we might even come to dislike it.

    And as for the scandals or the "bad image", I think everyone knows what's what.

    I was against renaming as well, but I now think that this is a win-win for everyone involved.

    1kisei will be truly released from chasing after Hirate's ghost, her "ideal" performance. If you look back to their blog and interviews from 2018, you'll find them talking a lot about wanting to emulate Hirate's performance. They grown out of it already (as shown in online live), but this decision would fully free them to pursue their own ideals that suit their own strengths.

    Wiping the sheet clean, 2kisei too is also freed to express what they want. They are now going to participate and contribute into the creation of the group's world view, no longer need to feel scared or anxious like how they initially felt about Keyakizaka46's world view (scared of ruining it). And surely, the future generations to come will also benefit from the same way.
     
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  13. Philosophy Senpai

    Philosophy Senpai Kenkyuusei

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    Takahiro sensei is the key factor that, right from the very start, transformed Keyakizaka46 from just another top idol group into an artistic entity of contemporary pop culture of global caliber. Him alone together with the composers of the music of the various songs (and to a lesser degree Aki-P's poetry, because most Keyaki lyrics are not just lyrics but poetry).

    I read with great surprise that the girls have no idea about what is going to happen after the rebranding. Even when they are about to RE-DEBUT: (What???)
    Unfortunately (and this is my very personal opinion - surely influenced by the way Keyakizaka has grown in comparison with their Sakamichi senpai), our beloved group managed to tie their destiny with a series of events and decisions that resulted in an immediate, ultra-fast, skyrocketing course into the bright blue skies of success, only to find itself over-passing the atmosphere to the darkness of space, where it lost its path and perished...

    It is sad that the group we love flew too high and too close to the sun and - like Icarus - had its wings burn. Keyakizaka46 is committing seppuku, my friends, this is what the mechanisms behind all those decisions that lead the group to this specific path, has finally decided. And the slaughtered lambs here are the girls themselves. I only wish that ALL OF THEM will have the strength and willpower to face whatever new lies ahead, together...

    P.S.1 Meanwhile, in a parallel universe, Keyakizaka46 are being born, 4 years after a successful idol group recipe and follow a SIMILAR path to that older group of senpais, only with darker songs, gloomier lyrics, fiercer dance, girls with more weird personas - different branding - the one we know. But with senbatsu right from the very beginning, tougher tasks for the members, in general, a way to the top much harder for the girls... What would have happened? Some of you may have already understood what I am trying to say...

    P.S.2 I was always opposite to the senbatsu system. How stupid I have been... But then, Keyakizaka46 was the only group I knew well...
     
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  14. miwa

    miwa Kenkyuusei

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    That's absolutely not true. Keyaki has 7 out of 9 songs certified gold from the RIAJ. Silent Majority is hands down the most successful song out of all Sakamichi groups, it has over 150 million views on YouTube (and it's region blocked), it's followed by Fukyouwaon and only then by Influencer. They have b-sides that have more views than other groups' A-sides. Keyakizaka is most definitely not a very niche group lmao.
     
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  15. Iamyoung

    Iamyoung Rank 81-100 (Temporary Name)

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    I would say most of the people who didn't like them are wotas of the generic jidol girls. Akip thought of a group who won't be totally like the generic idol. We now have the coin lockers (don't know if they are even idols). There is also Last Idol, who went through the vocal selection. You could see that they are trying other ways. Because of that, non-wotas were drawn to keyaki. The general public did love their songs which was one of the reason why they shot up on the success ladder like that. Although ppl say they fell from glory, imo, they haven't. They are still claiming glory even though there has been nothing for more than a year.
    Also their songs actually made people go Wow @STS. Check their performances. Their songs get covered a lot. Their Kouhaku performances are always talked about positively and fall under exciting performances. People do look forward to their performances. Even some 'wotas for cute concept only' can't help but be wowed by it. H!P idols even claimed to be jealous of keyaki. The only people that complained & went WTH are those conceited kidol fans who called them weird.

    So there is nothing wrong with their choice of songs. Again, it's becos of the fixed 'jidols shld only be cute' mentality which caused this whole depression. But still, people are hoping they don't do cute concept. That is how much they are liked
     
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  16. STS

    STS Kenkyuusei

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    They are a very niche group. I don't understand where you saw their popularity among people. Saimajyo was quietly popular, yes.
    Every time when I heard that "some idol girls group" is so popular, I'm just ... :fp::fp::fp::fp: What reality do you live in?
     
  17. Iamyoung

    Iamyoung Rank 81-100 (Temporary Name)

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    Well, define 'popular'. Maybe your definition for 'popular' is different from mine. All AkiPs idol groups are popular, no matter how small they are. 48, 46 idols are the most popular idol grps in Japan now and keyaki is no different. Even in their introduction on music shows, popular is added in their description. So I don't know how else you want to believe the popularity of the group
    And I don't know why you keep stressing that they are niche, cos we all know they are not
     
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  18. Dill

    Dill Upcoming Girls

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    I'm not gonna get in the discourse because it seems to me both @Iamyoung and @miwa gave right answers, even though I'd put the blame of Keyaki "bad name" also on those fantastic people who left, s*it on the group, and now are gonna come back (OH JOY)
    just a question... why this kind of discourse always starts with Nogi's fans? lol

    I don't even know where to start with this.. it may be a first.
    I'm actually glad you can't understand Keyaki at all.
     
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  19. STS

    STS Kenkyuusei

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    I think you need to learn a lot about japanese music industry. And may be you could understand why every time when 46&48 to get some prize or even good time slot it's so annoying for japanese.
    I didn't said anything bad about keyaki @Dill I actually didn't said anything about keyaki. And your comment sounds like a fanatic's comment. That's creepy.
     
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  20. SteCola

    SteCola Kenkyuusei

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    Keyakizaka IS popular, we're talking about 46 groups here. They're invited on Kouhaku, they have big concerts, and are on CMs, popular tv shows etc. 46 brand is even bigger than 48 by far these years.
    Calling Keyakizaka a NICHE idol group, like we're talking about and undeground idol group, just cause they had that strong "emo" image, seems delusional.

    However, here's my interpretation, but surely could be wrong.
    Keyakizaka image was good cause different and attired a different type of interest, but it started to happen that the "emo, dark" feel, which suited well for Yurina and few other members, was too suffocating for the rest of the group, captain included. With that kind of image, you can't do what other idols do: in fact they were called less compared to Nogizaka when is about ironic commercials, funny things etc. Cause the Keya image was so focused on the "dark, emo members" one, and MCs, tv variety shows, commercials, always prefered other girls.
    So these girls really felt like being "Keyakizaka" limits you to do many other things that other sakamichi groups are doing.
    Especially if you are a middle/high popular member, being in Keyakizaka is so much inconvenient to being in, cause that image is so strong and limits you on various thing, and of course the Techicentrism was all over the top. People associated Keyakizaka to Techi and never cared much about the others.

    So the name change is needed for the members to have a group that is no more associated to that image, in order to have the possibility to be more flexibles on things they can do or the type of songs you'll sing, where all the girls could shine and is not symbolized by just one.

    That's the feeling I got from all this, I don't know if it's totally correct but I think I got some points.
     
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