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Have any of you lost interest in 48/46G?

Discussion in 'General AKB48 Discussion' started by Doodleboy, Dec 8, 2016.

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Have you lost interest in 48 G?

Poll closed Dec 12, 2016.
  1. Yes, I don't follow them anymore.

    9 vote(s)
    8.4%
  2. Somewhat. All of my oshis have graduated, but I still follow the group.

    19 vote(s)
    17.8%
  3. Not really, but I am losing interest.

    34 vote(s)
    31.8%
  4. Of course not, I have just as much interest in the group as I did when I started to follow AKB Group

    20 vote(s)
    18.7%
  5. No, I've gained more interest than I ever had before.

    25 vote(s)
    23.4%
  1. kanjo

    kanjo Stage48 Moderator Staff Member Stage48 Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2012
    Location:
    Ireland->Shimane
    Oshimen:
    Nishino Nanase
    @Reveen
    Rubbish. Give any of the 48-groups the same training, rehearsal time and investment that K46 and they'd have done as good or better. This idea that K46 members are better because they're K46 members is delusional.
    48g members are chosen at a rate of about 1/100 auditionees. 46g members are around 1/2000~4000 auditionees. Stands to reason that there might be difference between the members.
    But I don't like arguments like that so that's not what I would claim. My claim would be that 48g no longer put in the training, rehearsal time and investment. Nothing to do with the members, just management phoning it in on the 48g side.

    I guess the truism that 46-group fans are not interested in personality is accurate and pretty, bland un-genki wallflowers are preferred.
    I don't agree with every member listed but I disagree even more with the idea that someone can't be both attractive and have a good personality.
    Or that attractive, mature members can't have (/interesting) personalities.
    It reeks of desperation to find something to disparage members about.

    You hit the nail right on the head there. For years Sony (and the members themselves) portrayed them as whiter than white and complete Debbie Do-Rights and goody-two-shoes who only did "classy" gravure because they were "refined ladies" but when there's filthy lucre to be made from expensive photobooks they finally whipped out their ass-cracks and cleavage just like those muggles from AKB.

    They've been following the same rule for years. Bikinis can be seen in their first group PB and Maiyan's early first PB. Both 2013 iirc.
    Nothing about this dirties Nogizaka's image. This is the same rule that virtually all mainstream actresses in Japan use.
    If you google image search Nogizaka members who've done solo PB there will be one or two bikini shots, like all Japanese actresses, but it won't be dominating.
    Do the same for an 48g member who has done the same, but check make sure no one is looking over your shoulder first.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Cristafari

    Cristafari Stage48 Admin Staff Member Stage48 Admin

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2008
    Location:
    Saitama, Japan
    Oshimen:
    Iwasa Misaki
    Twitter:
    Cristafari
    Gee, I wonder why people are starting to get the crazy idea that some of the Nogi/Keya fans are acting like a bunch of elitists?
     
  3. Zerase

    Zerase Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Oshimen:
    miyawakisakura
    You know what talent is? It's not gained through training, rehearsal time and investment. Covers of SaiMajo have been made, and none of them have even come close to the original version. NGT and HKT might have cute girls, and its perfect and actually very respectable to like them if you're into that kind of music but K46 has completely obliterated any sister groups. ever. There is a reason why their 3rd single is already selling above 500k. You can be delusional and say it's all about the hype, but the general public seem to disagree.

    And "there was no way they could lose" is a huge lie. there was EVERY way they could lose. It was the girls of Nogi who rebelled against the management when the producers made NogiBINGO and made them go through those horrible pranks and stuff. There is also a reason why their image has changed so much since the first singles, the group has adapted their image to their personalities and that has been reflected on the music.

    And yes, some gravure has been made here and there, but other than that the costumes have nothing to do with 48G, the skirts are way longer, no breasts exposed etc Same for performances, no sexual innuendos, no sexual themes etc

    And I don't think it's elitism, I just think that the Sakamcihi fans value other types of music, performances, variety and idols
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. kanjo

    kanjo Stage48 Moderator Staff Member Stage48 Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2012
    Location:
    Ireland->Shimane
    Oshimen:
    Nishino Nanase
    For thinking they have a right to an opinion that something is better?
    Gee, how dare we.
     
  5. Rurouni

    Rurouni Stage48 Moderator Staff Member Stage48 Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2015
    One of the problem I see is that between 48G and Nogi + Keyaki, it seems the bosses has created a wall so they don't cross path in terms of styles. So even if 48G can do a Keyaki style song and choreo, someone will prevent them from doing it. It should be easy for any group to do the style of another group, since it should be just a matter of hiring the right people and a lot of these people that making the music for 48/46 have worked for both.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2017
  6. Cristafari

    Cristafari Stage48 Admin Staff Member Stage48 Admin

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2008
    Location:
    Saitama, Japan
    Oshimen:
    Iwasa Misaki
    Twitter:
    Cristafari
    If it is your opinion, then position it that way. I don't see opinion, I see supposed "facts" being declared, especially about subjective issues. Would you like me to quote you guys?

    Here's my worthless opinion...

    1) I don't care
    2) like what you like
    3) they are idol groups
    4) when you try to pass of subjective opinions as objective facts, you are killing your credibility
    5) Again, I don't really care

    I have nothing against these groups, I think Keya and Nogi have nice songs. I have tried to watch their shows, but none of the members have ever stood out to me in a way that makes me want to follow them. At the end of the day I'm just not drawn to their image, but I'll still listen to their songs. I am glad they are doing well and becoming popular. It's kind of the rule of law in the idol kingdom, groups get stale, new groups come in and take over. That's fine.

    But when we it starts becoming "everything 46 is amazing" and "everything 48 sucks", then it turns into a childish "my oshi is better than your oshi" internet battle. Nobody wins.
     
  7. Reveen

    Reveen Under Girls

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2013
    Location:
    Sunnyvale Trailer Park
    NGT and HKT had a couple of hours to rehearse Silent Majority, not months like K46. You certainly seem to have bought the hype which is job done from Sony's point of view for sure.

    Also....general public? The general public isn't buying Nogi stuff, it's wota. Nogi haven't penetrated the public consciousness like AKB did in 2010-2013, I haven't seen any Nogi versions of Kintaro or Uta Kohaku (don't google her if your at work lol), have you?

    Rebelled lol...you really have drunk the kool-aid eh, as they say in the wrestling business "it's a work!".

    And adapted the music to fit their personalities (what personalities?) ? Management get the best backing tracks that they think will be a hit, it's as simple as that. Idol fans really do over think things sometimes.

    Also I had to lol at "Horrible pranks" ...Meetan had more guts in a few AKBingo appearances than all of Nogi put together in theirs.

    it's a classic bait and switch, put them in boring costumes like a bunch of very fashionable nuns but when the time is right get their asscracks against the camera when they want to sell photobooks.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. kanjo

    kanjo Stage48 Moderator Staff Member Stage48 Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2012
    Location:
    Ireland->Shimane
    Oshimen:
    Nishino Nanase
    @Critstafari maybe you're right about that, I disagree in ways but I can see where you're coming from.
    However I don't see how that relates to elitism.
    From my perspective, calling certain people elitist for thinking their thing is better serves no purpose but to put people down for having a preference.
    And I also see it as petty name-calling, though you may disagree.

    If someone wants to say "that's subjective", that's fine.
    I don't see why treating something subjective as objective, even wrongly, is elitism.
     
  9. M4YUYU

    M4YUYU Member Stage48 Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2012
    Location:
    USA
    Oshimen:
    mutuotomu
    Twitter:
    tomutomutomuuuu
    If there's a segment of Japanese entertainment industry that is maybe the most subjective (with militant, uncompromising fans), it's probably idols :lol:

    Are 46 groups better managed? Probably. Are the members inherently superior to 48 groups? No way, and if you think so, it's purely subjective.

    AKB48 (eclectic mix of members, active stages and teams) has always been my favorite format of an idol group, but I have never thought that HKT48, Nogizaka, or whatever, as inherently, and/or objectively, inferior, it's just that their concepts are not my taste. I mean, I checked out 46 groups (performances and variety), I found their songs all right, but their image and group make up are really not my thing.

    I think the success of an idol group really rides on narrative, currently vogue concept, hype, and timing. AKS are really having hard time (or not really trying) to create a narrative for "new generation" members that they end up creating new groups for the origin story or just pick ones that organically gained fans (maybe changing with 16th gen, but who knows). Even in 46G they do this with Keyakizaka46. Does it mean that the more recent members of older groups are objectively inferior? I personally don't think so, but it's really tough for a group of idols to succeed as a group without a compelling narrative and hype, and for people to solely judge the members themselves instead of the group circumstances is really harsh on the "fail" members.
     
  10. Reveen

    Reveen Under Girls

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2013
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    Sunnyvale Trailer Park
    That's Stage48.txt material right there, you around Wil? :lol:
     
  11. kanjo

    kanjo Stage48 Moderator Staff Member Stage48 Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2012
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    Ireland->Shimane
    Oshimen:
    Nishino Nanase
    I literally think we just have wildly differing definitions of the term :/

    Edit:
    per my understanding, I would have to think liking Sakamichi more than 48g makes me superior to people who prefer 48g to be called an elitist.

    Or to you is it really just someone who thinks something is better.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2017
  12. paruchory

    paruchory Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2014
    In my opinion a part the formal differences (organization and so) when I see a concert it's just that 99% of N46 songs (sorry I m not yet aware of Keya) are ballads, fast, or slow almost all ballads. And ok, maybe just a little less fanservice during the concert. Said this I still watch tons of akb48 (80-90% of time) and of nogi stuff too (20-10%).
    Anyway I don't believe somebody that wasn't 48 fan can be interested in nogi. They do idol song anyway, that's the only true.
    For my friends that are not in to idols this is all the same. They keep say to me how you can listen and watch this over and over. Lol.
    I remember watching with friends N46 manatsu 15 tv live, and asking for differences, and they tell me the only difference between the akb is that Nogi are just a little less energetic. Btw I was asking this sort of thing because I was already reading comments and discussion about this topic.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2017
  13. trxsh

    trxsh Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2014
    Location:
    Canada
    The debate is fun to read^^
    I think this is more about understanding how trends and public image works, Sakamichi groups are successful in that sense at the moment. Btw I'd like if more people pointed out how silly that name is, I always thought the desperation to separate from 48g by using "Sakamichi" was silly, but I usually go along with it and try to suppress my propensity towards mean-spiritedness, ha.

    A big part of 46group or any trend or entertainment being successful is it having some aspect that makes people feel good about themselves. Pushing a "rival" group towards a more ~muh pure ojousama~ image at a time when people were getting kind of ambivalent towards the image of AKB (seeing them as entertaining, yet kind of common, unrefined, vulgar) was a smart and opportunistic move as I see it. Unfortunately, people do really get caught up in this instead of just enjoying entertainment for what it is. As Reveen aptly put it, "drinking the kool aid."

    That said though, I much prefer the content put out by 46 groups atm (well, not really the variety).
    I appreciate the more refined and fashion-conscious image and the music itself is much better, especially since the past year has been the worst for me in terms of 48g releases. The most prominent reasons will vary from person to person, but there are clearly many things to criticize about the current state of the 48 groups to the point that anyone reading this will know what I'm talking about without there being a need for me to go into it for the millionth time.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2017
  14. nobodywil

    nobodywil Upcoming Girls

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2009
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    From the Islands to The Bay
    You rang? :awesome:

    "I don't see why treating something subjective as objective, even wrongly..." and that's how "alternative facts" and "fake news" were born. :lol:
     
  15. EinhanderX

    EinhanderX Next Girls

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2015
    If there's anything I can point out objectively........

    It's 46G girls has better ratio in terms of gaining SO in HS result. This in turn, creating an illusion that these girls are easier to be popular.
    Sure it can be said that 48 has higher spread of HS application, thus harder to SO and only certain few could achieve it. That's how it is.

    This however lead to second implication, what about the rest? the lesser popular girl?
    This is the sector where I saw 48G are crueler. There's always a case of theater girls not participating in the single. Back then from Aka-Shirogumi era until today. Not to mention repeated report of different treatment between senbatsu girls and not. Not gonna put much details too. But it's obvious it has potential to shift interest as well.

    How should I put it subjectively as objective, even in wrong....Sakamichi girls are better treated than 48G girls.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2017
  16. kanjo

    kanjo Stage48 Moderator Staff Member Stage48 Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2012
    Location:
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    Oshimen:
    Nishino Nanase
    "Even if it's wrong, treating your opinion like a fact isn't close to what I'd call elitism"
    This one is a bit harder to take out of context.
     
  17. nobodywil

    nobodywil Upcoming Girls

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2009
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    From the Islands to The Bay
    "Even if it's wrong, treating your opinion like a fact..." thats how "alternative facts" and "fake news" were born.

    It works... :lol:
     
  18. Kiri

    Kiri Member Stage48 Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2015
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    岡田奈々 / 손채영
    Once you start treating your personal opinions like facts everyone else opinions become false by default. And if you have a certain group of people, lets call them A, doing the same thing you get elitism, because A knows that B and C are wrong not matter what they do.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2017
  19. marnchor

    marnchor Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2014
    Location:
    Hong Kong
    Oshimen:
    miyazawasae
    Just some random thoughts to serve up to my learned fellow forum members to have fun with:

    "Interest"

    1) Do you think you have lost interest based on the time you now spend (less) on reading/watching/talking about AKB stuff?
    2) Are you spending less $$ on the Group now? How does this compare to the $$ you spend on all idol stuff? (Is it wallet share that the Group has lost, or has the overall wallet shrunk?)

    "Interesting"

    3) Slightly different question: is there less now that you find interesting about the Group in general?
    4) If the product or content were more interesting would you spend more time/$$$ on the Group again, or have you had it? (Cos you feel betrayed, cos you have grown up, cos there is "better stuff out there", cos your oshi already left?)

    "She's gone, and it's not the same..."

    5) Was the Group interesting because of an individual, or a bunch of them? An oshi? A favourite gen?
    6) If you find the Group less interesting because of an individual(s) - is it really because of a lowering of interest level, or is it really because one is 'mourning'?

    "It's the music - it's not as interesting / good compared to before"

    7) putting aside subjectivism (it's hard) - what's the quality of music in general now and before (deliberately subject to how you might read it)?
    8) okay put aside quality (subjective) - how about the sheer variety of music styles - even on A-sides (Uza, River, Beginner, Flying Get... bye bye... welcome Tsubasa WI, Kokoro NP etc...)

    "Are they less pretty, more pretty, too pretty? Characterless? "
    "Are they taking less risk - therefore less interesting?"
    "Are they taking less risk - therefore more acceptable generally?"?


    9) do you observe a general trend towards homogeneity? Lots of ballads? 46G?
    10) Is there room for the generic/popular to exist alongside the wacky/weird? And is this balance recognised (if you think it's needed?)
    11) This is like Million-seller vs give-a-f*ck; Tokyo+Osaka vs everything else; senbatsu vs Theatre

    Might be worth a few seconds to contemplate?

    Or not - I have thoughts on this - not really answers. This contemplation on the origins and wherefores ("where are the stars? what made Yuko and Acchan special", etc...) gives me at least as much "interest" value as content and delivery. Maybe this is LOVE!!!
     
  20. paruchory

    paruchory Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2014
    Btw I wonder if in the future we'll see some collective big concert like was 48west vs 48east. A 46 vs 48 in tokyo dome or sbd. That should be very very cool imo.
    A collective kohaku too will be great, with Acchan as a judge lol :D

    vv [hehe][hehe][hehe]
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2017

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