How come K-pop fans don't branch out to AKB48 and J-pop in general?

I wasn't going to post in here again, but I liked the burritos example...because I also happen to prefer them over pizza, lol

But yeah, it's preference. The music is done differently and with different influences, also the production...everything really. You can say they both have scandals or both have some other similarities, or both go through stereotypes, but that doesn't make them the same thing or the situations the same. Also, they are foreign so anyone who becomes a fan would either find the music or some other form of media into their cultures, not going through their cultures and then learning about their entertainment industries, so most obstacles in terms of who they are don't really matter in the end.

Most people like K-Pop because it's following what's trending in music right now, and they're actively trying to expand their influence. This is where the conversation get's it's spin from mdo7, because the culture of the music industry doesn't change much for either of these groups, just the effort to appeal and how they are trying to appeal. K-Pop is trying to do what everyone else (on a global scale) is doing only better, harder, and with more promotion. When someone says J-Pop has different goals, then he talks about the fans not being as passionate, and if not that, then switch to how the groups are somehow vaguely the same because they're both in the media or music industry as if they share the same space and that somehow equates everything that makes them different. Then just recycle the impression that J-Pop has a problem based on the fans and lack of appeal to get the thread some attention. Just keep bringing up how they don't fit in with K-Pop.

So the answer can't be unchanged here, J-Pop isn't following what K-Pop does, that's why many people can't get into J-Pop, even for those who wish more for it. It's about popularity, so that makes them different even when you listen to the productions, there's a clear difference in how they compose and perform the music, no matter the formula or format. I can't put it in words but it's quite clear to me, and listeners would agree.

That's not to say J-Pop hasn't crossed over with some groups though, they have and it should still mean something even if it's not competing with K-Pop.

 

What is funny is this guy is trying so hard to troll jpop fans here, and all of us are like "um.. we don't care"

If you want to waste your time doing something useless, by all means have at it. But realize nobody gives a sh*t besides you.

And one more thing, if you are going to bitch and moan and whine again and again and again about how jpop doesn't have as much visibility in the west, then maybe your own twitter account should probably not be thousands of tweets exclusively about kpop. just saying.

 

As I mentioned before, this guy has been doing this same thing since 2014, starting up debates that pit kpop and jpop against each other. Whatever you say won't get through to them, and they'll always find a way to ignore or disprove your points (which is why i stopped bothering). If you want to continue having a conversation with someone that has kpop so far up their ass then go ahead, but just know that you're wasting your time.

 

Ahh.... I have now seen their posting history. Now I'm sorry I even bothered to reply to this thread...

 

At least he didn't give us links proving that AKB was part of a pyramid scheme run by the illuminati to destroy the Japanese population.

Planned by lizard men from space who consult with Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, and Donald Trump to brainwash Americans into invading a depleted Japan as a base of operations for WWIII with China.

Only to be thwarted from extinction by the rise of Godzilla, Japan's one and only savior from cosmic invasion.

 

Preference.

I just like k-pop visuals a lot more and the music is more tolerable to me as well. Prettier girls and longer legs.

It has nothing to do with not being open minded. Probably plays a larger roll the other way around actually.

 

lol... wasn't there a similiar thread discussing almost the same thing back then? under the guise of "seo48" or smt.
And even the poster is the same and most of the arguments are rehashed points from that thread.

Well.. IMHO, it is useless to discuss these things over and over
1. Jpop won't make it in Korea (or outside Japan.. mini buzz/world tour here and there doesn't count)
2. Jpop doesn't need Korea anyway. Or any other countries. there are alr thousands of jpop acts, some debuted indie and performs on crossways.
3. If there is something to sum up the discussion abt why jpop won't sell: there are nobody knows the real reason. Just like almost everything in real life, it is caused by mixtures of factors, not just by a single or even 10 reasons.
4. What's more, there is no use tbh in discussing these things.

One thing i agree with the poster is thou: Kpop act don't do well in Japan, they do bettter in China. Yes, it does seem they are selling like hotcakes in Japan. But it has been brought to attention that lots of the concert attendees (for example) are non-Japanese ppl who cant get to attend concert in another area, then they attended the Japanese tour. Lots of non Japanese ppl buy the single too. The Japanese kpop fans tend to he vocal just like any fans, so it creates illusions that kpop is still going....

 

Ok so basically i was waiting for the downfall. You know 10-20 years ago jpop was the thang but then came the downfall. So kpop would have a downfall too

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pfft suddenly this thread active again, okay an update !!! china just announce the ban for kpop and.. @phulolza you dont need to wait more longer bc the kpop downfall will come earlier than ever

 

I'm surprised how far politics can go.

Like... kpop and kdramas have nothing to do with the missiles shit.

The universe is facepalming at this.

 

Also rumors of all Korean plastic surgeons being expelled from the country and having to settle at countries such as... Thailand

 

Thats china for ya.... one wrong step and youre banned

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As a Kpop turned Jpop (just Zaka48, actually) fans, here are my few cents.

1. The emphasis on swimsuit gravure (especially non-adult) and ‘kawaii’. It's a huge put-off, and it's not a positive image in the public (outside of Japan, at least). Personally, that was also the main cause of my huge bias against AKB48 before I became a fan, and this was when I liked their songs as a casual listener. Even now, I much prefer decently-clothed photoshoots to bikinis and underwear.

2. Nationality or ethinicity isn't the issue. Kpop, while being an evolved version of Jpop, is distinctly different to the latter. The most evident being that Kpop idols sell on being ‘perfect’, while Jpop idols are a ‘work-in-progress’. The result is that while following Jpop idols require a lot of time investment to get into them (variety shows, radios, documentaries) to appreciate their growth, Kpop comes out as a synchronised machine. Also worth nothing is that Kpop songs are much more heavily western-influenced, hence they are more suited for ‘immediate consumption’ by international fans. (Also more subs!)

3. Too many members... isn't really as huge a deterrent as others, but OP comparing the largest Korean idol groups to AKB48 subunits is just twisting numbers to your favour. There IS a ridiculous number of girls in 48G and there is no denying that.

To be honest, there has probably been more than one occasion where a passyby dismisses AKB as ‘Japanese weirdness’ (not specifically to the group, but just the whole concept and stereotypical view of Japan), and it's very true that Japan just does it's own thing - the culture and national pride of the Japanese is very strong.

All I can say is, they just aren't very internationally appealing.

Probably, the only act that has managed to cross into although niche, but still international territory, is Baby Metal.





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Probably for the same reason why people wouldn't give zero about Panasonic's DX900 which outclasses Samsung KS9000 in many ways but was downplayed due to the KS9000 being more internationally available while DX900 is only available in Canada, Europe (as DX902 in UK, DX904 in Benelux), Singapore, Taiwan and Japan (as DX950).

Not to mention most Japanese boy groups are literally dance and vocal groups (mostly non-JE) - members are divided into dancers and vocalists subgroups. Some new fans are asking if all the members sing and dance at the same time, from what I've seen in the comments on YouTube. (so far, only X4, w-inds and Lead can execute it well).

Japanese female groups are much harder to get into, imo. One may appreciate the likes of Fairies, GEM, Faky and Happiness but it will be difficult for one to even try to appreciate the likes of Houkago Princess. Of all the girl groups in Japan, only the 48 groups are mixed bags.

 

show me one decent rapper in jpop groups who has THE FLOW!

what is this??!! X_X

if the video does not show watch the video here

seriously! DD:
this is why jpop is not recognized internationally. because of those shitty rappers! D:

Spoiler

if the video does not show watch the video here

 

I'm also a Kpop turned Jpop fan. I visited Korea in 2011 and before I left home I had a look online at the current Korean Billboard charts to see what sort of music I could expect to hear on my travels. I found it very easy to find MVs on YouTube and the acts all had names written in the Roman alphabet, likewise most song titles were in English. I quickly became familiar with the songs in the current charts, I heard them and recognised them while out and about in Seoul and I went into a record store where I quickly found and bought my favourites. I then spent the next four years continuing to listen to Kpop via YouTube as well as the weekly TV show 'Simply Kpop' which I could get on Arirang TV.

Finally I got round to visiting Japan for the first time in April last year and I tried to discover the local pop by looking at the Japanese Billboard charts, and then trying to find the songs on YouTube. Oh dear. That was rather more difficult. Firstly, although the Billboard charts had acts and song names in Romaji, it soon became clear that the Japanese alphabets prevailed. Secondly when I searched for the songs in YouTube using either Romaji or Kana I found very few (mostly Hello! Project acts) and often they weren't full-length versions. Fortunately I eventually found the Jpopasia site which linked to Jpopsuki and that made things easier, but not before I'd spent quite some time with futile searches. (Thanks to those sites I discovered the full-length MV of 'Green Flash' which was the start of 'something big' for me, you might say!)

One other point I want to make is regarding being able to watch Kpop and Jpop on global TV. I mentioned 'Simply Kpop' on Arirang TV which is a weekly hour-long show with about 10-12 songs all in full-length. For Jpop there's J-Melo on NHK World. It's only 30-minutes long, some weeks are repeats of earlier shows, and there's more talking than music (which is almost always short versions of songs). If they could instead broadcast a longer show with more music I believe it would help spread Jpop much better. In summary, I do think that Jpop has a global accessibility problem.

 

Decided to add something to this topic.
Recently a new rookie kpop girl group named "BONUSbaby" debuted awhile ago
and their sound is VERY Jpop inspired to the point where many Kpop fans began hating on them for no other reason than: "it sounds too much like Jpop."

Maybe they're not open minded to other types of music and just happen
to be strictly into Kpop, because I've met people like that before and that's nothing new.
For me though, I'm a huge fan of Kpop Girl Groups my favorites being: WJSN, Red Velvet, CLC, Dreamcatcher, BONUSbaby, and Laboum.

Outside of Kpop I also enjoy Babymetal, and now have started obsessing over Kobushi Factory.
Actually tried getting into Nogizaka46 but it was too overwhelming. So many member line-up changes, long history of singles to catch up on were some of the factors that made look for something else that would be easier for me to get into. Was kind of worried this post was going to hate on Kpop fans but I'm glad that wasn't the case at all.

 

Holy Crap you guys this discussion is lit.

You guys are so awesome. I read page to page but i'm so exhausted from all the perspectives.

But I already typed my own opinion (you know personal thoughts) before I read through the topic so i'll just post it anyway. I aint deleting my efforts after one boba drink and a Itano Tomomi binge "COME PARTY!!"

The first question. "How come K-pop fans don't branch out to AKB48?"
Why don't they? Its personal preference. The implication of this question seem like they have some previous obligation or knowledge of AKB48. Truth is, AKB48 isn't as popular in the entire world. I'm pretty ignorant about Kpop so until someone shows me something I'd probably go on without knowing that TWICE is pretty awesome.

Why...dont they explore Jpop though?
Japanese pop isn't similar. Apples to Apples they are both fruits. Its asian pop. But the sound, image and the total package is unique. I have friends that like Kpop to death but they do appreciate some Kpop time to time by selection. Honestly, Jpop sucks at this time. You guys can try to talk to me about it but cmon, it's been really stale for music for a while. I consider my self a Jpop fan and I haven't bought music for a long time (current releases). I'd say the better releases in 2016/2017 would be Utada, E-girls, J Soul Brothers, a couple of Enkas, and Nishino Kana. Jpop needs to step it up.

I came from a time (hooooo age showing here folks) where we have divas dukeing it out on the Oricon charts, rock bands releasing massive classics, Boy Bands dishing out the hits, creative artists recognized, and Idols still have a place meaningful in the industry. My mom thinks 80% of the industry can't even sing or deliver (I know she is so savage) after watching last years Kouhaku Uta Gassen. So! Dont go running around that unkowwn has defected and likes Kpop and is growing out of Jpop. I'm just saying that Jpop right now is a bit stale and could really use a new phenomenon aside from loading the profit train. And i'm not saying the artists today suck. Quite many of them don't get the warranted attention. Remember when Nana Mizuki got her first #1 album? That was something. Or Nishino Kana's to Love album slaying at 300K? opening. But since many are so used to million markers, total #1s, total editions accomplishments like these doesn't go celebrated. Actually AAA opening #1 not too long ago is totally remarkable but I saw they were getting bashed for beating SKE48's album. Like really? SKE48 is great but AAA totally has come a long way too.

And I always have to remind my many music friends;
AKB48 =/= JPOP
AKB48 is a group within the JPOP industry
Utada / Perfume / Bz / Exile etc etc and yes even some crossover Kpop artists like BoA = JPOP

I've appreciated the time where Japanese Oricon and forums had such a mixed plate of Japanese and Korean artists. The charts were so lively, people was always talking about music. AKB48 was at their prime, SNSD KARA too. And that was part of the reason why that era was so enjoyable. It felt we can be all under the same roof while still knowing they unique. Kpop has something to offer and I really miss that now. Now it's really marketed to the remaining kpop fan market left in Japanese interest.

In sum. I feel it's a understanding from both sides that we don't mix each others music around so frequently but when a good hit comes by, i'm sure the other will listen.

 

I apologize for the long absence. I've been out and paying attention to other stuff and the US election (which as a K-pop fan and as a 2nd generation Asian Americans, I find it concerning regarding the Trump administration). I can give my thought here:

Yes, sadly the THADD thing is hurting K-pop and anything Korean related as in this. They've already started to ban Korean stuff since late of last year:


if the video does not show watch the video here

And now it's already been escalating and it's not limited to K-pop and K-drama, have a look:

THAAD dispute spills over into classical music industry, concerts canceled

S. Korean-Chinese film co-production called off amid THAAD spat

China appears to block Korean film screenings in film fest

And now because of this, South Korea is forced to look at other market and no Japan is not a big cash cow like it was long time ago. South Korea is looking into Southeast Asia, Latin America, and maybe Australia as a alternative to replace the Chinese market:

Future of hallyu beyond China?

K-pop groups seek to explore non-Chinese markets

So Japan is not as lucrative as it was. It would make sense giving that KCON has already expanded to Mexico, and one coming to Australia this year. But a K-pop expert on Twitter told me that Southeast Asia may not be lucrative enough to make up for the loss of China. They may have to expand to North America (ie: USA, and Canada) and Europe to make up for the loss of China and Japan. I'm happy that K-pop is getting more popular and more well-known in the west, but at the same time I do have concern for K-pop's popularity could face a big racist backlash given the anti-immigrants sentiment in America and the Trump administration "legitimizing" and giving "carte blanche/free pass" for hate crime, discrimination against non-whites, and immigrants. But that's another story, if you want to talk about it, I'll explain it via private message.

Although I was absent on this forum for almost a year, I found some evidences that seem to confirmed to me that the J-pop fandom on a worldwide scale used to be much bigger then K-pop before 2009/2010. Have a look:

blog from 2009: J-pop/showbiz male idols fangirls are the worse

Are most K-pop fans "old" J-pop fans?

Remember when a lot Jpop fans were in denial when Kpop was rising in 2000s?

International K-Pop fandom 2016 reminds me of Jpop fandom in 2006

Also I found out K-pop was demonized back then on the same level as J-pop has gotten right now, and I'll quote:

So judging from these links and the quote from the article, J-pop used to have a bigger fandom around the world then K-pop before 2009/2010. Then around 2009/2010, something happened to the J-pop fandom that caused K-pop to go from demonized/hated to the most popular Asian pop worldwide. So here's the question: why did the J-pop/AKB48 fandom didn't raise an alarm/red flag when that happened? This is what I found out:

1. When J-pop fans started to branch out to K-pop and became fans, they never went back to J-pop after they became K-pop fans. I found out when I started to talk to some former J-pop fans that became K-pop fans. Some J-pop fans I talked to online (on another forum) when I told them about it, they were baffled and couldn't explain why these former J-pop fans that became K-pop fans never went back to J-pop. So nobody in AKB48/J-pop fandom were alarmed by the sudden decline in J-pop fandom when K-pop became more popular and more well-known.
2. When J-pop get criticized for looking so weird, these same audiences that criticized J-pop for being weird seem to accept K-pop no matter how weird it is, even if K-pop "out-weird" J-pop like in the case of Big Bang.
3. When J-pop have accessibility issues in North America and Europe, no one in the J-pop fandom raise hell like their K-pop counterpart did.
4. When IOI, Cosmic Girls/WJSN, and other mega groups (ie: Gugudan, Oh My Girl, Twice, Boys24, Seventeen, etc...) got a big international fandom, nobody in AKB48 fandom ever raise a red flag/alarm about why their K-pop counterpart are getting more international audiences then AKB48.
5. When K-pop fans started to branch out K-indies and K-hip hop, how come a fan of J-rock don't branch out to J-pop or why doesn't a J-pop fan branch out to J-rock. Why is it so easy for K-pop fans to branch out to other genre in Korean music but not for J-pop and J-rock. I mean a fan of SNSD/Girls Generation will end up branching out to a trot music, but a fan of a visual kei won't branch out to AKB48.

So you're telling me none of AKB48 and J-pop fans never raise an alarm amongst the fandom when this started to happen?

And there's another thing else I started to notice. I found out 2 Taiwanese artists has entered the Korean market, does anybody know Emma Wu/Gui Gui? She became one of the 2 Taiwanese artists to debut in South Korea:

2PM Taecyeon’s ‘We Got Married’ On-Screen Wife Gui Gui Signs With CJ E&M

Taiwanese singer to debut in S. Korea

The 2 Taiwanese artists reason for debuting in South Korea looks like it's a response to Twice's Tzuyu's popularity in Taiwan and in South Korea. So it looks like these 2 Taiwanese artists are pandering to K-pop fans by taking advantage of Tzuyu's popularity. If they're doing it because they think they can get international audiences in America and Europe just by singing in Korean, it wouldn't surprised me. I'm seeing Hollywood doing a similar type of pandering to South Korea like it does to Mainland China. Have a look:


if the video does not show watch the video here

If this is the case, then why doesn't Akimoto create a AKB48's K-pop sister group for the Korean market, I mean we already saw how IOI and WJSN/Cosmic Girls got accepted by a global audiences outside of Asia, if their popularity and fanbases are proof that mega girl group can get a big fanbase outside of Asia. Also let's not forget the Idolmaster getting a Korean/K-pop adaptation makeover which is getting a lot of attention from K-pop fans that never played the Japanese game. We already saw 2 Taiwanese singers debuting in South Korea, and now Hollywood pandering to the South Korean market. Why doesn't Japan do the same?

Don't give me the bad relation between Japan and South Korea as an excuse, China and USA already have tension in the South China Sea and over THADD deployment in South Korea and yet Hollywood still pander to China despite the tensions. So if Hollywood can overlook the tension and still pander to the Chinese audiences (it's unknown how long Hollywood will pander to China), why can't Japan just look pass the tension and pander to South Korea and K-pop fandom.

 

Who says kpop fans don't branch out? I was originally a sone and huge kpop fan before listening to jpop. I remember looking at akb as a needlessly large group back in '08 or '12 cause girls generation was entering the jpop market.

I still definitely think it's needlessly large, but I see the appeal of having so many members


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