Keyakizaka46 x SHOWROOM

Discussion in 'Keyakizaka46 News & Releases' started by kanjo, Jun 21, 2017.

  1. hmmero

    hmmero Kenkyuusei

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    I see a lot people saying Neru's treatment of Sugai is her being disrespectful & "forgetting her place" since Sugai at the end of the day is still her senior in both age and position, I even see some people saying Neru is getting "cocky" because of her handshake results, popularity, and how much push she is getting in the group is making her feel entitled to act a certain way~~~
    i myself disagree with both those accusations.
     
  2. saekokuga874

    saekokuga874 Kenkyuusei

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    ^ I doubt KeyaKids care all that much about seniority within the groups as members. Sugai said this was their usual interaction and since she's a bit of an M, I feel like she might even like this set up :lol:. Even Fuu-chan, who is usually very nice and considerate, plays along with "ignoring Yukka". Well, that's how I view it, especially because they have mentioned a few times before in separate occasions that they like that Keyaki members accept their real character (I guess, that other people usually wouldn't? especially applied to Shida and Neru imo). Neru has always gone on about being glad she can be herself with the members... but I guess, if you don't know/think deeply of anything about the members, it would certainly seem like they're bullying the captain. I guess this is why creating and upholding an image is so important... just so people on the surface can grasp it. Ridiculous they robbed themselves of enjoying Sugai's SR bc they were busy being angry at Neru for interacting like a normal, close friend (I've had experience with one of these, but I was always the sideline, kinda like Satoshi this time around > laugh, join, just laugh more).
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2017
  3. hmmero

    hmmero Kenkyuusei

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    @saekokuga874 you definitely said what was on my mind~! i agree with this 100%


    http://sr48.net/follower
    seeing how slow to almost stagnant the 48 girl's increase in followers, looks like hirate and shiraishi will be in the top 3 in the next couple of days
     
  4. ukifune

    ukifune Upcoming Girls

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    There is still a lot of residual wota hatred for Neru left over from when she joined the group without having gone through the final audition (which as far as I can tell may be more just confirmation than audition). Almost the first critical post I saw went back to that, dredging up all the slanders that were hurled at her at that time. So I think a lot of anti's were involved. But it wasn't just them, unfortunately.

    Not that I have ever done this myself...but Yukka's affinity for suffering seems to call out to people to tease her. The look in her eyes is often: "I am surrounded by potential disasters and smile just to keep from crying." I noticed in the Hiragana group Showroom that Takase Mana, another high-class young lady, seems a bit similar.
     
  5. ariadne32391

    ariadne32391 Kenkyuusei

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    Exactly. That's why I was shocked. I thoroughly enjoyed Neru during the Showroom. It was a good contrast between Sugai's serious personality. It was really funny to watch Sugai getting frustrated with the playful Neru.

    My take on this is Japanese are manner-freaks so I guess that's why people took offense to Neru not listening to Yuka. That's just how they are wired. I think with foreign countries, usually the closer you are with someone, the worse the teasing is. So for me, rather than being rude, it shows how comfortable Neru is with Yuka. Yuka does seem like the type you would want to tease.

    It was all in good fun but I guess that's just not the norm in Japan.
     
  6. too much idea

    too much idea Upcoming Girls

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    Oh man don't compare Manafi to Yuuka they are totally different.

    Yuuka is teased by all the bullying (like Oda) and ignored, the girls destroying her 'plan' but makes it more fun in exchange. For me, in fact, it makes it looked like they want Yuuka to talk by herself then only call out to them if she needs help (Oda and Fuu yells in Fuuchan's SR when the other girls give short answer, telling them that this is a practice and they should elaborate their answer)

    Now, Manafi is... a different case.
    She's like that person in the group who are there in the background. Laughs and make comments but rarely heard or listened to.

    I can only hope that it's not like that outside the SR for Manafi
     
  7. ukifune

    ukifune Upcoming Girls

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    @too much idea -- No two people are exactly alike. I still see the similarity. You might say both of them are ojou-samas with an M side to their personality.

    And I think that Manafii actually is treated like that a lot of the time...and takes it, as Yukka does. Her little comments on the show, some of them ignored, were often pretty sharp. I think she's the sort of person who has a high IQ and is good in school, but has a low EQ and is bad at dealing with people. Yukka is clearly more capable, but both also have a certain awkward formality to overcome.

    I rewatched both the Sugai-Neru group show and the Hiragana group show, and I saw Memi-Manafii as a bit like Neru-Yukka. Memi was back there ignoring Manafii (but then making up for it with an intimate smile to her), telling people what to do, and making comments (some of which were inaudible because her voice is soft and she isn't as pushy as Neru). Like a junior version of Neru-Yukka. Memi and Mii-pan were a constant riot, with Memi's moues and hugs, and Mii-pan's shrieks and huge smile.

    By the way, I confirmed what I thought I heard the first time: early in the show, in a brief quiet moment (around 3:15), Memi looked straight at the camera and said: "Atashi wa genki desu." ("I'm fine.") I think she was replying to a comment on-screen, and that was her direct confirmation that she feels okay despite the handshake event incident.
     
  8. saekokuga874

    saekokuga874 Kenkyuusei

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    Yeah, Manafi is definitely in the background stage... hopefully, she'll grow out of it, though I think it'd be difficult to do within the same group of people she's with right now. Manafi's eyes are unsure and shy, but Yuuka is very sure of herself. The reason the members make fun of her so much is bc she's too serious and takes things literally - don't know how to respond to jokes without pointing out the obvious - that kind of person always gets poked fun of by more easy-going people haha. Watching that fake-crying-teasing moment, Sugai knows that's exactly how she is and plays along with the joke hoping to counter-attack when she grabbed Neru's twin-tails a second time [hehe] and failed.

    @ariadne32391 I hear the bullying culture is pretty severe in Japan (isn't it in every country tho)? Maybe there are people who are triggered, many of those types are idol fans after all. Those who get bullied probably haven't experienced the type of friendship they displayed on Sugai's SR.
     
  9. ukifune

    ukifune Upcoming Girls

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    Are you sure about that? I always get the sense that she can work so hard because she feels she has to battle to stay alive. And what I saw in her eyes in that show was the feeling that the world was collapsing around her. But she is determined and knowledgeable enough that she can choose a useful response in each situation.

    Fascinating idea that idol fans might tend to be bullied and would react strongly to any bullying they saw. Except when they were bullying Neru when she first joined K46. Bullying others may be another possible response to being bullied.
     
  10. Meiji Ishin

    Meiji Ishin Kenkyuusei

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    Does the Japanese language differentiate between teasing and bullying? That may be some of the problem here, bullying is typically used in a very negative connotation, whereas teasing can carry a positive to slight negative connotation (playful to annoying).
     
  11. ariadne32391

    ariadne32391 Kenkyuusei

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    ^
    Yes Japanese language actually differentiates between bullying and teasing.

    Bullying - Ijime
    To tease - Karakau

    Yes possibly. People got triggered. Maybe they don't see teasing between friends as a form of affection. I'm sure a lot of us have that one friend that gets teased by everyone in the group. Sugai is probably that type of friend. Even the other members tease her a lot on screen.

    I think Japanese are just too particular when it comes to manners. So there will always be that high expectation and probably Neru being an idol also plays some part on the reaction of the people. Well anyways I hope the hate just dies down. Wouldn't want Neru to stop being her playful self.

    (Wow I used to be just a lurker for years but Keyaki has me wanting to join the discussions lol)
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2017
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  12. Rurouni

    Rurouni Upcoming Girls Stage48 Donor

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    One of the problem is that some people want showroom as a tool to know more intimately about a member regardless of it will be boring or not. These group SR being dominated by the non streamer aren't helping that cause. This is kinda similar criticism that AKB (especially Miichan) for what they did in Music Day where I think a lot of people want to see their oshi in TV but instead got Miichan head. It is fun for the neutral, but for the fans of specific member, well....
    Personally, I'm fine with a few fun group SR, but I do want to see a personal SR from each member. Since I don't really have an attachment to any of the K46 member, I definitely find their group SR entertaining, but then if I'm thinking about what if my oshi stream and turns out that it isn't about her... I probably would be disappointed.
     
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  13. formula77

    formula77 Kenkyuusei

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    what a great performance of keiko in her appearance in radio show she was in 4 july as guest !!
    her cover of nagisa no balcony of seiko matsuda was superb !! keiko cute voice is great with this type of music !
    i like keiko knowledge of old music !!
     
  14. riduch

    riduch Kenkyuusei

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    I dislike neru's attitude in the last sugai's showroom. She needs to be quite when someone is talking... Especially I assumed it was something serious, e.g. making an announcement or doing group related promotion, maybe it was unintentional, but she needs to change that attitude.
     
  15. saekokuga874

    saekokuga874 Kenkyuusei

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    Ah, you're right, Sugai does have a nervous streak that she works to overcome but I never thought that meant she wasn't confident. In my mind, I was thinking that she was sure of herself as in in what she likes, her goals and her personality (whereas Manafi just seems shy and young. apparently she was a bit of a loner when she was young?). I need to English better.. determined is the perfect way to describe Sugai for this instance.

    Yeah, I guess... depends on the person/relationship. I hope the fans take Sugai's word for it, if they keep bother Neru I'm even sure Yuuka would address it on her blog or something. Knowing how Neru is very self-conscious, I feel like this type of teasing won't happen again on camera :(

    I never thought about that.. it's my first experience with Showroom. Personally, I'd rather watch group interactions because you can get information from the many interviews and radio talks they already provide. But I get it, for the fans it's kinda like one-on-one time w/ their oshi...?
     
  16. hmmero

    hmmero Kenkyuusei

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    sad to see this has not died down yet~~ the hate on Neru is still an ongoing topic on social media
     
  17. ukifune

    ukifune Upcoming Girls

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    This bothers me a lot. The wonderful thing about the two Kanji Keyaki group Showrooms has been how much like themselves they were, far more natural than in any other public setting. The naturalness of Keyakizaka46 is one of the main things I like about them. If they start censoring themselves, they will become like any other entertainers.
    Information is one thing, but a feeling of the presence and nature of a person is another. That's what the solo flights give us more of -- although it's true we have a much better sense of Neru, Sugai, and Mon than we did before those carnivals last week. Some people might think of quiet one-on-one Showrooms as boring, but to me they are more interesting in one way because they provide more subtle information about the personalities, who are running the whole show themselves.

    It was not unintentional. I understand why people didn't like it -- it made me uncomfortable, too -- but it made that show far more interesting than it would have been otherwise. Sigh. I know Neru will have to change, just for publicity reasons, but we will all be the poorer for it. We will not see the real, full-scale Neru. As we saw in the hidden camera episode of KeyaKake, Neru is pushy and provocative and a source of energy in the group. I don't want that to change.
     
  18. saekokuga874

    saekokuga874 Kenkyuusei

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    If Risa did a solo SR, I'd watch it to the end [hehe] I guess it really depends how interested you are in the person, even though I had wanted to, I couldn't sit still for other members' solo's. I watched Pon's SR tho and thought that it was really nice, a group of 2 or 3 would be the best for me.

    PS. I was happy when Shida said she wouldn't be able to do a solo SR, that means if she does a stream there's gonna be some fun group activities :blush:
     
  19. Meiji Ishin

    Meiji Ishin Kenkyuusei

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    Does she though? I guess if her HS sales suffer she does, but if not why does she need to change?
    It probably depends on both who her fanbase is and who is criticizing her.
    I noticed in the location shoot they did on Keyabingo she had girls close to her own age coming up wanting to meet her. If her fanbase skews younger and more female will being attacked by antis who skew older and male have the effect of actually increasing her support from her fanbase.
    Will an 18 year old female Neru fan feel an even stronger bond with her when a 35 year old male anti goes after Neru online? The nature of online commentary makes it unlikely an upsurge in support for her would show up there, but it might at HS events.
    Sometimes it pays to have the right enemies.
    Part of what Keya is doing is dipping their toe into the alt/anti-scene. The whole "Idols who do not smile" motif is part of this.
    Having someone who puts a finger in the eyes of traditional wotas may very well be a strength for a group that looks to expand it's fanbase beyond the traditional wotas.
     
  20. riduch

    riduch Kenkyuusei

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    overally I agreed with you, I just dislike her interrupting attitude, not her whole antics
     

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