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Matsuoka Hana (Hana)

Discussion in 'Team TII' started by ForrestFuller, Jun 27, 2015.

  1. daniel trajano

    daniel trajano Kenkyuusei

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    someone in the comments was telling hana-chan that she is disgusting and she should die.
     
  2. rendizzz

    rendizzz Kenkyuusei

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    just some idiot d*ck, but still this is very annoyed me most
    glad Hana will never found this comment
     
  3. nigamushiotoko

    nigamushiotoko Kenkyuusei

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    omg... that is the worst...
    but don't worry, I believe our Hana is strong enough.

    she can read the comment too
     
  4. Mayoyo

    Mayoyo Kenkyuusei

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    some people really hate her ,
    I really like Hana to pull a 2013 Sasshi this year
    there will be mass suicide if Hana able to do that :XD:
     
  5. RedBug

    RedBug Kenkyuusei

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  6. EinhanderX

    EinhanderX Stage48 Moderator Staff Member Stage48 Moderator

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    Perhaps. Some people could forget the bad word they said in the past and pretend never said that months after anyway.

    Human nature.
    -----
    Top 16 eh? The push she's getting ain't cheap indeed. If only HKT fandom were stable with the fundraising....
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  7. theworldofwindow

    theworldofwindow Kenkyuusei

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    I don't understand the hate for her.
    The staff decided to give her a little push, it's not like she begs for it or something.
     
  8. Iizuka-Tengu

    Iizuka-Tengu Kenkyuusei

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    Little?...

    You just aren't being honest there. The very fact that you have to be deceptive with your language indicates you know well what it is all about.
    This is the single biggest push anyone in the company aside from Maeda Atsuko or Matsui Jurina has ever gotten. And in this case, it isn't even like they are trying to sell a new group.

    She gets drafted into the group and immediately gets her own solo song and made center of the whole group out of the blue. And not some one-off "let's show off the new girls" single HKT song as a coupling song on an AKB48 single... but made the unshakable permanent center of the whole group. And not just on the songs alone, this has meant dozens upon dozens of opportunities that she gets. Opportunities that everyone else has been working for years to try to get.

    And this is completely out of nowhere. She didn't work for it, she didn't pay her dues, she didn't do anything spectacular that made all fans stand up, take notice and the company would just be leaving money behind by not using her in absolute everything. Rather instead, it seems as though the company is intently locked onto her, they are actually throwing away money by deciding to continue to blindly shove her to the forefront of everything rather than capitalize on the talents that have broken out with less than half the opportunities Hana has gotten. If Sakura isn't going to be center, why can't Madoka or Miku have even just one single chance when that is clearly what the majority of fans want?....


    And every unearned opportunity that it just handed to her is an opportunity that was taken away from someone else in the group who has actually earned it. Every time she gets to do anything, that is something that someone else could have done and would no doubt have done a better job at it and done more with it-- and it would have done more for them.

    In last year's election, Hana got rank 80. Tanaka Natsumi pulled of a miracle and got rank 50. Yet Natsumikan didn't get to be in a senbatsu all year long. In fact, forget not even getting to be in a senbatsu-- HKT48 put out an entire ALBUM with lots of new songs... and she didn't even get to sing on a single new song at all. The company spits in her face (and by extension the faces of all the fans who paid so much with the promise of her getting a chance after her years of hard work), tells her that no matter how much support she gets she is just garbage in their eyes-- telling her she sucks, she is ugly and she should just go graduate and die because they really don't want or need her. And they do this on behalf of Matsuoka Hana.


    And you claim that she doesn't beg for it. Or rather that nothing corrupt is happening to pull the strings for her. But you have absolutely no proof of that. That is just your own stubborn opinion in the face of all evidence. It looks like a duck, it sounds like a duck, it smells like a duck, it feels like a duck, but you are insisting that regardless of all that, it is actually a goldfish because that's the reality you want to live in.

    Given how unprecedented and really foolish this all is, the fact that the company refuses to backtrack on this at all indicates that Hana does have some agent working on her behalf on the top levels of management. And she almost certainly DID ask for this. What member has ever not asked to be center? What member has ever said that they don't want to appear on TV shows or be in the AKB senbatsu or be the main focus of marketing campaigns?

    Of COURSE she asked for it, she no doubt did beg for it. Every member has. Kodama Haruka was center because she asked and begged and cried to be center until they took it away from Meru and gave it to her. That was revealed in the HKT48 Documentary. I am sure you would be in denial of that until we got hard video evidence. The difference here is, someone in the management who has the power to do so is actually listening to Hana and more than happy to work tirelessly on behalf of promoting her regardless of what it does to HKT48.


    It is not so much a matter of hate. If Hana were to be packaged together with Bibian and Maria and they went and did a 3-person unit with Hana as the main center and they did it as a coupling song, even if they got their own little unit CD if the song proved popular enough like AKB48 used to do and she just didn't enter the senbatsu until she earned it, or if she was in at all, it was in the back row where a rookie belongs, then no one would "hate" her.

    The fans of the group have been told that every girl in the group should be aiming to be center, and if not within the senbatsu and as in it as they can manage. And, furthermore, the fans were told that the girls' hardwork, but far more importantly, fan support measured by election results and handshake events would determine who would get those positions. That is how AKB48 group has made 90% of its money-- over fans throwing away every last yen they have to try to buy opportunities for their favorite girl as was promised. That is AKB48 group's entire business model.

    Matsuoka Hana stands singularly as the absolute pinnacle of evidence that all of that, every bit of it, was a complete lie. Instead, the management is intent on eroding, collapsing and bulldozing the remains of the group if that's what it takes to make their favorite daughter as much of a star as they can manage.


    Now, I expect you to react to all this with stubborn denial. Just hand-wave it away and claim it isn't true... not because it isn't true, but because you don't want to admit how true it really is. Because if you admitted to yourself the truth about the situation, it would undermine no doubt quite a bit of flippant claims you made to the contrary. But try not reacting with flippant denial. Because even if you can invent within your own mind some justification for how this isn't 100% true... understand that if one wasn't a crazed Hana fanatic, they wouldn't be willing to double-think their way into a justification. That this is how people who are not Hana Oshi feel about the situation.

    It is resentment, not hate. Actually think about what I have written here and understand-- naturally this is how the people who care about literally any other member of HKT48 who isn't Sakura, Haruka, Mio, Meru or Nako sees Hana-- and should see Hana, because regardless of how much you might like Hana, the careers of other girls who have been working their rear-ends off for as much as the last 6 years are being destroyed and thrown away on her behalf. That no matter how much the spend in time or money, no matter how tirelessly they work, no matter how hard they cheer... Matsuoka Hana stands as proof positive that their favorite member isn't anything, doesn't ever get to be anything and will never get any opportunities or chances to improve her standings.


    And, finally, it doesn't matter if "it isn't her fault". Hana has been the beneficiary of all of the chances, opportunities and exposure that has been stolen from other members. She is the reason it is being and will continue to be done. Would you say that because a Mafia boss's son didn't commit the crimes his father committed, he should nonetheless be allowed to keep all the illicitly gained wealth his father has given him and continue to live in the lavish luxurious lifestyle that he has become accustomed to? I certainly imagine you wouldn't. I imagine not, I imagine you would want that illicitly gained wealth to be, as much as possible, returned to the victims of the crimes and for that son to have to live like an average person, start from square 1 and make his own way in the world.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 17, 2018
  9. DeJure

    DeJure Kenkyuusei

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    Don't generalize me into your hate delirium for a 18yo girl, you sad man. (Oh sorry, resentment)
    I guess it will also be Anna's fault if people start to resent her due of the actions of some other guy(s) that isn't her. Not pointing fingers.
     
  10. Reveen

    Reveen Rank 81-100 (Temporary Name)

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    I see soothingearthdragon is still busy grinding axes.
     
  11. marioworldakb

    marioworldakb Upcoming Girls Stage48 Donor

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    Geeeeeeeeez yeah sure it makes it real convincing by covering yourself up by saying no hate or resentment in that wall of text.

    Whatever you say man, but the saltiness I taste from every single word from that post is only next to the dead sea.

    Sent from my VTR-L09 using Tapatalk
     
  12. Iizuka-Tengu

    Iizuka-Tengu Kenkyuusei

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    The fact that someone would need to resort to Ad Hominem fallacies to try to defend Hana is pretty much an admission that everything I said is pretty much true.
    I did not once mention Anna during my argument. Anna's career was half sunk because she is half-foreign which was already a major strike against her and was fully sunk when she decided to sneak off in the middle of the night to go eat ice cream and hang out in the park with a boy from Johnnies Jr.-- something 2 other girls in AKB48 did and who were more popular at the time of doing, yet still threw away whatever career they had to escape the hate.

    In fact, really, if you listed the handful of people who Hana seems to like and who seem to like Hana, and you crossed out those who are really good at being puppets of the company in general (Sashihara and Sakura), Anna is really among a small handful of people who could even be called allies of Hana. So why drag her into this?

    There are 35 other HKT48 members who have been working harder and longer than Hana, never got caught dating a member of Johnnies Jr. and yet get passed over by the company in favor of Hana.

    Specifically, I mentioned Madoka and Miku-- both of whom deserve to be center more than Hana-- and Tanaka Natsumi-- who deserves to be in the senbatsu more than Hana. Your digging into my background to try to figure out who I care about and attacking that person who wasn't even involved in my argument is kind of an admission that I was right.

    I didn't say there was no resentment. I said there was so much. My goal was to show how anger towards Hana is 100% understandable if one were to get out of the mindset of full focus on her and consider the position and feelings of anyone else in the group.

    The only thing I dislike about Hana is that she got her hooks into someone in management and is abusing it, in someway, somehow, to not allow anyone else to have a chance. And perhaps also that she is too lazy and dull to really do much with the unearned opportunities she gets. I just want to see someone else get a chance-- specifically whomever does amazingly well in the metrics that AKB48 group set up and said is the metrics by which they judge who gets opportunities.

    And even if the person who wins those contests isn't my favorite, I am quite happy to concede defeat and graciously allow the person who won to have her place at the top. I am not completely cool with the way Miku won people over, but she won people over none-the-less and for that-- if Tanaka Miku got the center position that she earned, that she deserves, that would boost sales if she had it... I wouldn't really have a serious counter-argument to it.

    Just like no one can have a serious argument in favor of why Hana is currently center. Everything points to the idea that certain secret backstage favors were exchanged, that certain promises were made and certain deals were done. Because while in the past HKT48 tried to do with Tashima Meru as center, and people very much disliked her at the time because it felt like she was cutting the line in order to get that position-- she was actually demonstrably more popular from being center than Matsuoka Hana is, and the company gave up on her far sooner than it has this time.

    But, perhaps far more importantly, Matsuoka Hana gets the reputation of being a spoiled, entitled, creepy, sociopathic little brat because of her fans. Just look at this...

    Fans of Matsuoka Hana literally want people to be killed. They want to see corpses as this would in some way in their psychopathic minds justify the unearned opportunities she has been handed on a golden platter.

    Of course, given exposure alone, Hana's rank will no doubt raise from being #80 in the election. At the same time though, all metrics have shown an actual decrease in her overall popularity and acceptance. The fact that Toyonaga Aki beat hear last year demonstrates that she has already lost the glamour of being the new girl. Moreover, I no doubt imagine that the spoiled, entitled, psychopathic fans of hers have no doubt realized that they don't actually need to spend a single yen towards supporting or promoting Hana thanks to her having her hooks in the management. And who knows how deep those hooks really go.


    Here is the thing though-- despite her morbid and evil fans, I am not at all opposed to liking Hana. I can tell you that I like Tashima Meru now a lot more than when she was center-- at that time she really didn't have herself or the idol game figured out at all, now she is a quick-witted and clever girl who totally has people won over at handshake events and is far more dedicated to handling tasks and communicating with fans. The Tashima Meru 5 years ago shouldn't have been named center-- the Tashima Meru of now would actually be a good head representative of HKT48 if she got the chance... instead everyone is forced to deal with Hana.

    If Hana stops being center, maybe loses the senbatsu position or at least gets pushed to the back, gets the chance to figure herself out and develop better, more positive relationships with the other HKT48 members, falls out of the sight and therefore ire of fans and then properly earns her way back to the top-- all the "hate" for her will disappear. Just like no one says much negative about Meru these days.

    But that's the whole thing-- HKT48 has over-extended her. And until they pull back and stop giving her the opportunities that others are more deserving of, she is going to be the #1 target for all hate and all resentment... and that is going to take very unreasonable forms. And mostly because of all those "TLDR" illiterate idiots on the net who are incapable of comprehending or lack the attention span and short-term memory capacity to quite grasp anything longer than a bumper sticker, those who have negative feelings towards how Hana has been unfairly favorite for so very long are not willing to write upon it at length enough for someone intelligent enough to say 'okay, even if I don't fully agree, now I know where this is coming from and can think on how to properly argue against/mitigate this'.


    I don't actually know to what degree Hana is responsible for her getting unprecedented opportunity after opportunity. And neither do those who want to claim she did nothing at all. But the fact remains that these opportunities are in fact unprecedented. This shouldn't be going on as long as they have been. Maybe agree that the company should stop pushing her as the center of everything to give those who have made it to nearly the top without getting a major push from the company. Kind of like the way Okada Nana finally gets to be center despite the company treating her like a background character for years... Maybe agree that she could take a senbatsu off to give someone else more deserving a chance, with the understanding that she can make it back if her real fans, as opposed to those who just get infatuated with whomever the "new girl" is, just give her enough support.


    Now, if you want to dismiss it as "saltiness" that I think that the AKB48 group should follow the verbal contract it made with fans to give those who were voted on more opportunities and support rather than letting backstage politics and favors determine someone's placement in the group. But you should really think about that-- even if you like who the corrupt backstage favor exchange is favoring at the current moment, that is very liable to change in the future and I imagine you won't be very happy being invited to play a blatantlyy rigged game to try to get Hana or whomever else back to where you think they belong when that isn't even a remotely realistic possibility because some new girl has her hooks in whomever Hana has twisted around her finger right now.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 17, 2018
  13. DeJure

    DeJure Kenkyuusei

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    Now my slight anger has changed into pity.
    Probably shouldn't have even reacted. Oh well.
     
  14. marioworldakb

    marioworldakb Upcoming Girls Stage48 Donor

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    The more you type out your reasoning the more delusional and out of reality you are getting yourself into.

    I suggest you to oshi to another 48G or perhaps the 46G where you can find some friends because everyone has about the same passion as you into hating that one girl whom you guys don't even actually know in real life.
     
  15. fluffy

    fluffy Kenkyuusei

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    Bruh what are you doing?
     
  16. Cristafari

    Cristafari Stage48 Moderator Staff Member Stage48 Moderator

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    @Iizuka-Tengu

    If you think you are going to sneak back on to this forum and pull the same nonsense that got you thrown off the forum in the first place, I will throw you right back off. Stop trying to "out-word" people. Explosions of text don't win arguments, they just make you look unhinged.

    Consider this a final warning.
     
  17. The Pum

    The Pum Kenkyuusei

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    I like Hana-chan, yayyyyyy y(^ー^)y
     
  18. rka

    rka Rank 81-100 (Temporary Name) Stage48 Donor

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    Peak stage48.
     
  19. Mr. Take It Easy

    Mr. Take It Easy Kenkyuusei

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    100% Agree with you
    She could easily reject senbatsu or center, she's harming the group, she is selfish.
    But most importantly, she doesn't deserve her push.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. DeJure

    DeJure Kenkyuusei

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    You should take it a little bit more easy.
     

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