Discussion in 'General NGT48 Discussion' started by Cisalpine88, Jan 9, 2019.
we've had our share of victim blamers in this thread.
yes, but we have to allow their opinions according to the mods!
This just poped in my timeline
Story about the tweet (I think it is the same one).
"Thank you for the handshake meeting.
At first, I was uneasy when I participated in the handshake meeting, but it was so nice to be able to talk directly with the fans after a long time, and it was fun and full of smiles.
There is a memory with each fan, and I think that time is already over, if I look at my face, the memories that I have run may run like a running light and tears may overflow.
It was a very painful five month, but I thought, "I was alive for this day." I was happy that I could meet you and talk about it.
A handshake event will be established only because there are people who will come to see you.
Not only time to meet, but also time to come to meet you.
If you are busy taking time, willing to take time from a distance, some will come from overseas.
Behind the time of one 10 seconds, there are many hours until it comes to meet, and I think that it is a handshake event including it.
The time I met was a moment, but the memories I met were lifelong.
A handshake event where you can meet so many people a day is a wonderful place.
Finally I talked with you directly and I thought, "I became an idol to meet my fans."
Thank you for finding me and for coming to see me.
Thank you for becoming a fan and becoming a fan.
I am happy to meet you and cheer you up.
I will do my best towards my dream so that I can see you again.
See you again at the graduation show."
I see already a couple of translations being circulating in different places. Don't mind if I contribute with the one I had prepared as well...:
Thank you for having attended my handshake events until now. I'd be happy if you would spend some time to read this.
Thank you for having come to the handshake event.
When the moment came to take part to this one handshake event,
I also felt a sense of uneasiness at first,
but being able to talk again directly with all you fans after so much time
felt so happy and enjoyable,
that it became spontaneous for me to be brimming with smiles.
There are memories that I share with each single one of the fans,
and upon thinking that such a time is about to come to an end already,
it meant that simply looking at their faces
made all these memories I had so far flash around before my eyes, like a carousel
and at the same time tears started flowing out, too.
It has been an extremely distressing 5 months,
but at the end, I could think how
"It's exactly for this day that I am being alive for".
This is how much blissful it was to get to meet and talk again with you all.
A handshake session only works thanks to the people who are kind enough to come an meet someone else.
There's not only the time spent actually meeting with me,
but also all the time spent to come all the way here to meet with me.
There's people who spared some of their own time to come here to me, although being busy,
people who used their time to come here to me from very distant places,
and among them, even people who every single time would travel here to me from abroad.
Behind these 10 seconds of time allowed per ticket,
there are actually so many hours spent coming all the way here,
I find that a handshake event also consists of even that part.
The time we get to meet is just an instant,
but the memories about this meeting last a lifetime.
What a splendid place it is,
a handshake event where I would be able to meet with such a great number of people in a single day.
At the end, after having had the opportunity of talking with everyone directly,
I couldn't help thinking
"So, it's to get to known everyone of those fans that I had become an idol"
Thank you for having found me,
and for having been kind enough to come and meet me.
Thank you for having grown to like me,
and for having become fans of mine.
It makes me feel fortunate that you have got to know me,
and cheered on for me.
I'll work towards my dreams,
so that we'll get to meet once again someday.
Until the graduation theater show. See you again.
I'm sorry guys, I checked my post and realized that I never mentioned it was a post I had just read on Twitter (not here)... but, my response still applies for the banned guy... I'm adding this picture to my reply to his/ her tweet yesterday...
Edit: went back to the tweet reply and it's gone...I guess many people must've reported it or replied to it that the tweeter was forced to remove it...
Since I see someone is interested, always on the matter of the civil lawsuit, I found out that on an episode of Viking which aired earlier the other day, about 15 minutes were devoted to the recent happenings about the case: the handshake event, footage of the send-off and the graduation theater show consisting only of the three graduating members, all of which they didn't hesitate to call an oddity (if you want, you can probably still watch the full program here).
In the middle of it there was a segment covering the court case, or better yet figuring out what they could be aiming for with it, since over a week later nobody knows what the management is wanting to do about it (probably not even themselves, as it wasn't even said what court the case would be filed). There were some interesting observations made inside:
"Rather than proceeding to file a lawsuit just for the reason that real (financial) damages have come up... After learning that she has been victim of harm, why did they still decide to act only now, I have to wonder."
Host: "The matter about the real financial damages is a secondary thing. That is to say, isn't Yamaguchi the victim? What must be done is taking actions on how to protect the victim, instead, yet..."
"It's a mystery to me why they didn't made that decision right at that time..."
Host: "On the topic of the lawsuit, we have taken a look at the main points of interest with lawyer Kiyohara."
"Right. The purpose of the lawsuit (according to lawyer Kiyohara) is supposed to restore the image of NGT48, along with clarifying the sequence of facts.
Moreover, the matter of contention (of the court case) could be whether or not there was any sort of involvement by the members. And in addition if the cause for this drop in image must be attributed to the assault by the criminal group, or rather to the management's response being haphazard."
Host: "Kiyohara, let me hear..."
Kiyohara: "There are actually two main points about this court case. First off, about whether the members were implicated or not in the assault incident, to clarify this matter it will make it necessary, in addition of course to Yamaguchi, even for several other members to appear in an open court and leave a sworn testimony, I dare say. (studio reaction) That will draw in quite a lot of public attention."
Host: "Hypotetically speaking, despite having filed a lawsuit and all, what about the chances of opting for an out-of-court settlement?"
Kiyohara: "There of course are also the possibility it will end up in a peace settlement. Except that, if they were to actually have a peace settlement, fans wouldn't absolutely forgive it. To explain why, going for a peace settlement will mean to leave the sequence of facts unclear, in a way to pretend nothing had happened. That would be the most undesirable way fans would hope for. So, if they really intend to go for a court case, they need to thorougly clarify on the related facts, otherwise it will really be far from recovering their image."
In that regard, I was wondering where I had read it before, and I remembered it was discussed more at length on this other law office site. I thought it was by the same person, but instead it turns out it's pretty much everyone's understanding that the management is looking for an out-of-court settlement right from the start.
Another thing to be brought up inside is that, although a choice like that would defeat the purpose of the operation, they can't do otherwise: none of the possible reasons for the management to file a damages claim of their own ("drop in image", "sponsors withdrawing", "activities being held back", "loss in potential revenue"), rather than in the name of Maho, can be blamed on anyone but on the management's mishandling itself, which will more than likely result into a case loss.
Then there's also the fact that by choosing an open court case, it will mean other (current) members might be required to testify in court just as much as the culprits, or alternatively let themselves be judged in absentia, and this time not anonymouly which is something they might want to avoid.
But anyway here's the relevant excerpt about how much an out-of-court settlement might be used for a show-off only:
4) The issue of how to lead the court case to a conclusion
This issue is maybe mutually interchangeable with the real purpose of the court case in question.
What they are going to do is probably take firm legal measures against the two culprits who have been sued, that would avoid charging them with compensations considered to be extremely costly, as well as preventing criminal liability to be reapplied again.
On the other hand, as told previously, with AKS suing the two culprits, there are too many risks that will accompany it.
For this reason, as a personal consideration, if the purpose is for the two culprits to be brought to court and clarify all details for the sake of
・Complying to the complaints from Yamaguchi's fans
・Showing a severe stance against the offenders, so as to dispel any sense of distrust from the other fans
・Restoring NGT48's image
Then I speculate this will be a lawsuit that will only have a boomerang effect.
For one thing, it's not necessarily true that the two culprits will be willing to speak about the facts in court.
During a witness examination in a civil litigation, they are free to deny making any testimony that could likely cause them to face criminal prosecution (Privilege against Self-Incrimination)
Putting it another way, there is no guarantee the two culprits will speak about truth, in a way that could get them a criminal prosecution.
On the other hand, in a civil litigation, there is also another method of resolution, that is a legal peace settlement.
Basically, it's a measure to try reaching a resolution and concluding the case by having a mutual exchange of opinions, regardless of the fact that a complaint was issued in the first place.
In case things will be over with a peace settlement, this will allow them to leave unclarified the points of the real sequence of facts and how it had happened, as well as who is liable for it. (In fact, in many instances of peace settlements, things are called over while leaving related matters vague)
Moreover, the settlement money can amount to 0 yen, without any problems.
Anyway, if anyone intends to do it, a legal peace settlement can be done even as soon as a court case has begun.
What's more, in a legal peace settlement it's highly likely that a confidentiality clause would be added to it, which states "The series of facts related to this case, the process leading to the settlement, as well as the details of such peace settlement are to be considered a secret. They are not to be revealed to any third party for no logical reason"
In case such a peace settlement is made, for the two culprits there's a significant merit to agreeing to it, if the settlement price to pay amounts to 0 or to a very low sum.
Meanwhile, for the AKS side, it will make it possible to publicly flaunt their stance of shedding light on the truth by initiating a court case, while at the same time mandating to the two culprits, who might be likely to speak about the truth, not to divulge to the outside anything about details of the settlement, or the facts about the incident.
That may as well let them kill not just two birds with one stone, but three or even four, as a result.
Should today's case be ended in a peace settlement, there are some aspects in which, as described above, AKS can draw benefit from, but there's no way to tell to what extent they will regain understanding from the fans this way, not to mention renewed support from the sponsors.
Just as an illustration of what can happen in a private prosecution for assault, the following is a (very) recent case from the USA where a weirdo SJW called Matt Loter attacked a Youtuber/Gaming-Journalist called Jeremy Hambly at a bar during a boardgaming convention called Gencon last year. Hambly brought a civil case against Loter which was settled out of court yesterday. This was done before the discovery phase so no details beyond what was already publicly known were disclosed, the case didn't even come near a courtroom. Hambly got a public apology and other settlement terms from Loter with everything covered by an NDA.
As Kiyohara-san said in the translation from Cisalpine, this is probably what AKS are looking for. A scripted apology from the two assailants and then the case gets swept under the carpet from AKS's point of view.
Okay, just when I thought that Maho had returned to a more relaxed mood with Twitter, as it was apparent from her liking tweets of Sanrio's Cinnamon and other friendly tweets supportive of her, I woke up to find out these two other tweets were added to the Likes just now. I wonder what's up with that, but I think I need to give a translation to them as well.
Note that the first two had been posted on April 22, which is the day after the graduation announcement:
What's up with that? "I/We have caused her to feel so much distress", and all that... How come everyone started saying stuff like "We'll strive on as we keep the feelings of Maho-chan and the others in our hearts" only now, right on the instant the graduations were announced? Were they instructed to do so? Why is it that they just sat back and watched in silence for this 4 months period, instead? And without anyone ever mentioning Yamaguchi-san's name once, even. Why didn't they take the initiative to speak up when she struggled on her most painful moments? #YamaguchiMaho #NGT48
Please do everyone a favor and don't use their graduation to make up an alibi for your own conscience.
It's way too late, when it's all over already...
"I have kept private communication contacts with certain fans. In doing so, I have betrayed the trust of everyone of you fans as an idol. I'm deeply sorry for it. I am prepared to accept any penalty. Also, while it's selfish of me, I still don't intend to give up on my dreams as an idol. Please give me once again a chance."
Bet they can't say that...
I hate to say it, but I think she may have just given up on getting justice and is just trying to avoid waves till she can GTFO out of that cesspool. It would explain the sudden mood change, to me at least.
I think it's more likely because of something upsetting that might have happened in private on that same day, enough to force her to react once again...
I haven't been translating many of the new mobame that Maho has been writing as of late, simply because even there the topic has switched back from thoughts and revelations related to the incident to otherwise normal communication with fans, so there was little reason for me to post all of it. However, there was something she mentioned in passing during the Mahome that was sent in right on the day after that brought people to connect the two things, so I'll report it here (this time including the pic sent with it, just for completion).
Spoiler: 2019-05-11 Mobame
Subject: Flower bouquet
I put on display in a flower vase those flower bouquets which I received at the handshake event.
There's actually two of them that have been donated to me.
Thank you so much.
Roses are the flowers I love the most,
and so that makes me especially happy.
Both the red roses and the light blue roses
are so cute, while being each of a different variety.
Among the light blue roses there were also some pink baby's-breath flowers,
that makes them the oshimen colors!!
They look so cute... and wonderful...
I went on to buy a new flower vase, earlier.
Today, I had the misfortune of learning about something horrible,
so I decided to take a look at these flowers in order to curb my emotions.
No matter how much stuff others say about myself, I'll be there to defend you all right.
I can never tell what's the right method to keep care of flowers.
If there's any person who was part of any floral club committee and is well versed in roses, please let me know.
Anyway, it's left unsaid who or what Maho promised to defend. Now, since she's the junior Maho arguably cared for and doted on the most (to make a point, after the last Twitter cleanup, Maho still kept this video of her despite anything but a few specific members got deleted 9:00AM GMT Time update: nevermind even that was removed), I saw some speculate it's about Fujisaki Miyu. This is due to the subject of a Photolog post on the same day, coupled with the fact some other Kenkyuuseis apparently wrote on mobame that she was crying. My experience from early December suggest however there is more to it that hasn't yet come to the surface...
Summary for 5/11 (Saturday) translated from http://40298ch.com/karakoro/kako/1548/15484/1548413013.html
Please let me know if I made a mistake!
From Maho's mobame "Bouquet"
Because I learned something terrible today, I am looking at flowers to calm myself.
Even if things were said about me, I will protect you.
Is the "cause of this terrible thing" in Maho's mobame? (It's uncertain for now)
A conversation from the recent handshake event
Fujisaki Miyu's photolog
Former Sankei reporter: "The metro police are working on Maho's case", and "The suspect's remark about the "laxness of the Niigata prefectural police" is wonderfully stimulating to the police authorities"
Story about a person that phoned in a complaint to AKS
A large reduction in the number of Maho's tweets and "likes" (*The number of followers was decreased by one after an HKT member's account was frozen)
Coverage of Maho's handshake event from Mezamashi Doyoubi
From Niconico: Broadcast of material about manager Imamura from Weekly Bunshun
They could not get directly in touch with him
Related officials: "we don't know where he went"
Resentment towards AKS's Matsumura
Was at Ise Grand Shrine (Ise Jinguu) on the first day of Reiwa
Imamura's trip to Ise was confirmed from his Facebook
Troll operation "F9" starts trashing the Inapoo threads on the 5ch NGT and Slot[?] message boards.
Daily Sports: "Net uproar about NGT "running wild" - search for offenders has gone too far" (flame war with over 5000 comments)
Sports Hochi: "It has become difficult to see the true nature of the "NGT case""
Maijitsu: "Fan's anger about Yamaguchi Maho's "unreasonable graduation" does not settle - Counterattack with ＃AKS許さない" [AKS許さない = don't forgive AKS]
Imamura's Facebook (a clearer image than that linked above)
TBS newscaster: "Yamaguchi Maho - Under strict guard - An unusual handshake event"
Bunshun: "The ongoing disappearance of NGT48's former manager - Mr. Imamura Etsuro "visits Ise at the start of the Reiwa era""
"Imamura's friends talk about the current situation."
"Imamura, being old friends with Akimoto Yasushi and Matsumura Takumi, was a perfectionist. He said he could protect himself. Being dismissed, he held a considerable grudge against Matsumura. I think he is suffering the consequences..."
Imamura's Facebook (clearer than what was posted before)
From Niconico: In Weekly Bunshun, "Kagioka" is now a forbidden word.
Video of an interview on street with Kato Minami from before she joined NGT
Well, well, I was just waiting for this to be brought up. There's more to it in the tweets in question that needs to be fleshed out, so I went through the trouble of translating them. I wonder what it could be all about...
The metropolitan police is getting working on Maho Yamaguchi-san's case! "No way!", I was thinking. Details to come in a few days.
On Yamaguchi Maho-san's case. The fact that the previously-released suspects openly told "The Niigata Prefectural Police are such pushovers [*]" has jolted into action the police authorities quite a bit. And I mean, the police doesn't consist of only the Niigata department. If I'll write anything more than that about the case, I'm going to cause an obstruction of investigations and ruin the possibility to build a case against them, which would be in turn pretty regrettable, so I'll stay silent for a while.
I think the verdict on it will come out sometime soon. Well, if you are acting haughty, thinking that yourselves enjoy some kind of immunity from territorial jurisdiction, you will end up having some rough time, that's what I mean.
To be honest, I think it would be best if Yamaguchi Maho-san herself would go ahead to lodge a complaint to the Prosecution Board, but this is something for Yamaguchi-san to consider about, at the end of the day. I understand there's people saying this and that, from the blind side , but one shouldn't forget that Yamaguchi-san is and remains the victim of the case.
Speaking again of Yamaguchi Maho-san's case. The tenacity of her fans, determined to not let it be faded from memory, is really worthy of respect. Can't help thinking how Yamaguchi-san is such a fortunate person. I never had any interest in idols, but I am struck with admiration, noticing just to what extent idol fans are being charitable.
[*] This one, for those who have missed it back in January, refers to a video originally found on one of the gang's accounts, in which Kitagawa Jo openly bragged about the Niigata's police being weaklings. Namely this one:
"So the cops of the Niigata Department, two of them came over to me, just like that. Even so, in the end they then departed without being able to say even a single word. So the Niigata Police in here is Kaisei [note: nickname for another one of the culprits in this case, identified as Man #3 in the third-party report, the only one not directly involved]. They are so damn weak."
Also, most importantly, near the end of the infamous AKS press conference back in March some latter-day hero, out of the journalists pushing questions, actually brought up exactly that video to the attention of a clearly dumbfounded Matsumura (his replies are for the most part empty weasel words, but I'm still including them for the sake of completion). The part in question is near the bottom, but the rest of the related questions are equally interesting.
All of this means that, yeah, if the reference didn't fly over their head like everything else, the management was definitely made aware of it at the very least:
Reporter #4: It seems that the text of such mails from Imamura were leaked to some media outlets [note: Bunshun]. Regarding the chain of events and the measures taken to address it. I imagine even Yamaguchi herself finds herself wondering, for sure, who could have been [to leak it], if maybe it was a member. If there are cases of consorting, I find that represents a cause of great uneasiness.
Matsumura: Excuse me, great what?
Reporter #4: Uneasiness. It has been ascertained that, inside of the criminal group in question, there have been instances in which they threatened members by citing this specific media outlet, and that this has been brought up on Twitter. Are you planning to investigate and check it?
Matsumura: About that, that such a thing took place, if the details are as you have described right now, I find it is extremely deplorable. I think it is a problem of self-consciousness, which I mentioned previously. So I think that it is urgent to work on improving self-consciousness in a steadfast way. Even the indications inside of this research reports, it goes without saying, we have received some extremely severe indication concerning our agency's managing structure, and in turn our "governance", I think. Right now we are in the process of carefully revising it, I'm not talking it only in terms of executive directors, or direction board. I think all of us need to work on sharing the same idea.
Reporter #4: Also, one more point. Sorry, but it has also been learned that, after being released without prosecution, one of the culprits had left a message on the Internet in which he was laughing at "How weak the Niigata police is", all the while showing no signs of repentance. With them completely ignoring the request when it came to collaborate in the [third-party committee's] investigation, coupled with showing no regret whatsoever, one can feel on the contrary that there might be even some kind of reprisal to be expected. What are you planning to do, regarding the aforementioned countermeasures?
Matsumura: I have to guess that, we'll proceed in a legal way as said before, even including that.
Also on the topic of "know your enemies" and why it is important, this is the real name of, a certain Gori a notorious yakkai wota who used to focus on Team 4 in the past years, and who got ousted as being the so-called "reporter Suzuki" that would appear on Bunshun's live broadcasts. Right after news spread back in February, he missed the following live because of "influenza", never to be seen again (at least not that I remember of...). On the other hand, he and his pals got notably spotted at a Nogizaka concert pushing their way to the front, only to end up booted out by the security.
We'll all miss you...
I was wondering about that very issue. I live in the US and if something like this were to have happened where the local police essentially scoffed at the assault complaint our national police (the FBI) could get involved (although very rarely) and overrule whatever decision the local police had made. It’s clear the Niigata police didn’t take this assault very seriously and the outrage the public has developed towards the authoritative figures should be heard by a national body such as the Japanese National Police Agency.
In Japan, due to the culture, the police's job is mostly seen as de-escalation. It is seen as a more preferable outcome on a macro-scale for a problem to be mutually avoided rather than resolved in favor of one party over the other.
A case in point, before I moved here I was on a longish research visit for a small personal project and the owner of the share-house I was staying at had a falling out with his crazy European on/off girlfriend which ended up with her getting hammered, trashing the kitchen and stealing a kitchen knife which she hid in her pillow in his room where she was staying.
The police ended up telling him they weren't going to arrest her, and actually made him pay the hotel and airfare fees to send her home. On a micro/personal scale anyone can see this is extremely unfair to the victim. But in Japan, at least for now, this was the way things were done. It seems things are finally turning around for individual protections and rights, although very slowly.
Just a note, I can't find any new summary posting from http://40298ch.com/karakoro/kako/1548/15484/1548413013.html for 5/12 onward.
I admit I don't understand the site, so if I'm missing something I'd be happy if someone can point me to the new thread.
Thank you @Cisalpine88 for pointing out the new thread. I'll try to catch up later.
At first, I don’t know English word for 検察審査会 so I don’t say anything about it
Thanks to Cisalpine88, now I know 検察審査会 = prosecution board
Prosecution board is basically a panel consisting random Japanese citizen that you can ask if public prosecutor decide not to prosecute a case. You then present your case in front of the panel and the panel will decide whether the public prosecutor should prosecute or not
Again, this is something that AKS can use if they want to
Here are my translations of the summaries from https://jbbs.shitaraba.net/bbs/read.cgi/music/29852/1553736787/
Please let me know if there are any mistakes!
For 5/12 (Sunday)
Maho likes tweets from Kado Yuria, Oguma Tsugumi, and Nishimura Nanako.
The story of Maho's handshake event is discussed on the TBS show Akko ni omakase!.
From Daily Sports: "Wada Akiko has sympathy for Yamaguchi "It's painful..." - with watery eyes she discussed the image of a child comforting Yamaguchi "I cried""
Seiji Reina likes a comment on a tweet that says [in part], "Only you and Mahohon are cute. Kato Minami, Ogiyuka, Nishigata, and Noechan are not forgiven."
On the show Sekai no Hate Made Itte Q!, Sōichi Nakaoka said, "The only regular program in Niigata is over."
From Zaikei Shinbun: "The AKS case and the uneasy relationship with Ohta Pro"
From otona x answer: "The confusion after the NGT48 incident was brought on by a lack of "sympathetic support" - What is required from a leader?"
For 5/13 (Monday)
Imada and Hakkou's Tokumori Yoshimoto! covers the NGT case.
Imada: "What kind of system is this where members and fans are living together in the same apartment building?"
A couple videos
Youtube (from 34:54) https://youtube/yhoqT20-sKg?t=2094
Nakai Rika likes a comment on a tweet that says [in part], "NGT is in serious trouble right now, but please don't give in to these evil members".
Inoaka's "boss", known as Jurio, locks his twitter account and changes part of the profile that showed a relationship with AKS to "former consultant to a certain national idol group".
(Sad news) The NGT case - The metro police department story surfaces - two people rumored to be ticket re-sellers lock [their twitter accounts?].
NGT handshake tickets are sold out again and again
NGT articles on Kakusei Nuckles
"(NGT's dark turmoil) With Yamaguchi Maho's graduation an explosion of, "again with the backroom deals"?"
From Yuukan Fuji: "NGT48's Yamaguchi Maho - the appearance of an unjust graduation - what will happen with the graduation stage on the 18th"
メン here is an abbreviation of メンバー (members) and 黒 here means like evil/criminal/wicked