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NGT48 Assault Case

Discussion in 'General NGT48 Discussion' started by Cisalpine88, Jan 9, 2019.

  1. primermicarrucha

    primermicarrucha Kenkyuusei

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    i think it really depends on how the whole thing was established and who was scratching whose back. i wouldn't be surprised if their ex-manager hooked them up with these guys in the first place.

    to clarify what i mean a little: aks/management could be protecting the attackers and the black idols who in turn protect aks/mgmt from exposing whatever scandalous arrangement they could've had with each other. even if (excepting the attack and thereafter covering it up) everything else they did wasn't strictly speaking illegal, it would likely be a lot worse if it came out than the backlash they've already gotten from playing dumb and waiting for maho to stop being a thorn in their side.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2019
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  2. eko p

    eko p Kenkyuusei

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    You've taken one case and treat it like it's a written law [hehe]
    That's not how it supposed to work

    For the case itself, it's clearly the management got greedy and choosen wrong strategy
    Judges are merely human and that's why we can continue to higher court if we are not satisfied with the result, one judge ruling is not law
    The important thing is the company make their rules very clear in their contract

    No dating rule are like any other rules that many company have, some have no dating rule between co-workers, some position need non-married person as requirement, some work need you to work at night, some work require you to risk your life for others etc

    Now for the case itself, the judge said he failed to see deliberate aim to cause damage to the company, maybe they are just focussing themselves to seek compensation
    If I'm the management lawyer, first I'll make my case by proofing that she have lied continously during half year she's been dating while 100% know that her act is forbidden in her contract which she signed
    I can bring up various occasion where she's avoiding her work suspiciously and if there are occasion in the past where she failed to do her work which cost the company money, that would be better
    Tie them to her lies and then moving to lies proof intent, she know that her act can be costly and yet she's keep doing it and keep lying, which latter lead to her sudden quit and messed up their group already scheduled concert
    If the judge can't see her intent in her first lie or her second lie or her third lie or her fourth lie, with so much lie during half year she's been dating presented in court, it just the matter of time when the judge will inevitably see her intent


    Again, one judge ruling is not law!!!


    *not native English speaker
     
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  3. wlerin

    wlerin Upcoming Girls

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    NMB has never been strong in SSK. In their first year, when the top 2 received 250k votes between them, Sayanee had less than 9k and no other NMB ranked. That pattern continued through the years, and Sayanee only made it as high as she did because she gained recognition outside of NMB. SSK just isn't where NMB fans spend their money. Also did Milky even scandal with fans? I thought it was industry people, but then I never really paid much attention.

    How could these...? Jurina's aggressive push is one of the reasons she did so poorly lol. It alienated existing fans. But it's not just that. SKE was the first sister group, and Jurina was competing against the OG Kami 7 in the height of their ascendancy. There weren't as many ways to vote, and SKE didn't have as strong a fanbase nor exhibit the kind of desperate rivalry that characterises their behaviour in the last few elections. They also weren't fighting against almost a half-dozen sister groups and a stagnant mothership to establish their own identity. Yes fewer votes were needed to enter senbatsu, but the competition was ramping up higher and higher every year. In her second year, and the second SSK ever, Jurina managed 4 times the previous year's winner, but that was only enough for 10th. How was her voting committee, if she even had one, supposed to know what they needed to aim for? Compare that to the present, where the votes required to enter Kami 7, or even just Senbatsu, have been decreasing since 2015. Both times she made Kami 7, Ogiyuka did so with fewer votes than the same rank had the previous year.

    Meanwhile competition in the lower ranks is getting harder, and half a decade of failed pushes and AKS leaving girls to languish or fend for themselves makes fans feel even more pressure to make their girl stand out, find any way to get her noticed. In such an atmosphere, with precedent like Sasshi's 240k votes, bulk fanclub memberships up for trade/sale, and voting techniques/strategies refined over 9 years of SSK, it really was only a matter of time before someone did what Ogiyuka's オレンジ団 and the other NGT voting committees did.

    But no, clearly the only explanation is sex for votes.
     
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  4. Ashitaba

    Ashitaba Rank 81-100 (Temporary Name)

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    Who said it has to be sex, though? There are plenty of things one as a manager can offer a fan to support a member over others to drive on their own narrative and most of them don't need to include sex. I'd imagine most of them would be less inclined to be mean to Mahohon if they felt like they were being used in some way or another. But these girls wouldn't really think they are doing anything wrong by inviting outsiders to their living spaces, would they? They genuinely might think that they are not doing anything wrong, and so anyone with a different set of morals shedding light to their transgressions would seem like an enemy, regardless of if they are right or wrong, and will perceive the call-out as a transgression by itself.

    That being said, let's not forget that the dating on its own is legally and morally not a bad thing, and could be shed from the discourse altogether. I can support anything that a person can do to search for their own happiness as long as they are not stomping over others willingly. The central issue has always been that Mahohon's safety was compromised without her giving any consent to the men who approached her, and as a result she was punished for bringing it to public light. To management, and to other girls who likely enabled it, whether intentionally or unintentionally, this is a transgression on its own, which fuels the animosity. If it was unintentional, doubling down on not having done anything wrong instead of trying to repent for what they did is bad enough as it is, if it was intentional... we can agree that's pure evil.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2019
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  5. Reveen

    Reveen Upcoming Girls

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    it's an interesting theory but I think they were quite aware what they were doing was wrong. Whether it was for SSK votes, presents, attention or just shits'n'giggles they were cogniscent that meeting fans in their apartments was wrong thus their defensiveness and callous attitude towards Maho.

    I think the only way they'd genuinely think they weren't doing wrong is if they were amoral.
     
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  6. Ashitaba

    Ashitaba Rank 81-100 (Temporary Name)

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    You're right, and we don't even know if they are even trying to think about what they are doing. For all we know they could be aware but are pretending to not know. You can easily throw someone under the bus and feel bad about it but never express it. Maybe I brought up a pointless topic in the end, but it's interesting to think that people doing bad things might believe they are in the right as long as things go along nicely for them.
     
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  7. tuxedo_gin

    tuxedo_gin Kenkyuusei

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    They cannot punish an idol merely for dating, but they can punish them for getting caught and negatively impacting the group's image. They can also punish idols for dating fans because while saying they can't date at all is clearly an overreach, the company is well within their rights to have a policy that prevents inappropriate relationships with customers/clients.

    Also, keep in my that that court case is only for adults. Things are lot more complicated when dealing with minors, especially when the minors are living away from home in the care of the company. Obviously not an issue in this situation but it is something to keep in mind.
     
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  8. Falx1984

    Falx1984 Kenkyuusei

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    You wrote the same nonsense on that other news blog.

    Even back then, a contract like that would have been a legal landmine, which is why it is almost certain that when Akimoto said it was never in the contract he was telling the truth. The man is not stupid and unable to see how trends are going.

    And as was painfully explained to you over there, the rules in business indicate relationships between superiors and juniors on the same department are not allowed in order to stop sexual harassment and if brought to HR's attention by the people involved they are not allowed to be fired or punished but one of them will be transferred to another department at the same pay rate.

    No job can require a person to be single. That is discrimination.

    Working at night? So what does that have to do with anything?

    Risking your life for others? How unrelated can you get?
     
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  9. sambelteri12

    sambelteri12 Rank 81-100 (Temporary Name)

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    But well.. it's happen. In my country, lot of company put that on their contract. At least for few of their first year. You dissagree, you don't need to sign the contract.
     
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  10. mickwserr

    mickwserr Kenkyuusei

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    i remember when Akimoto said that, but i also remember Sasshi, Shiichan and Yukirin said the love ban exist. Sasshi said on a tv show they had to sign a paper concerning the love ban rule, that prohibit "heterosexual and homosexual relationships". Shiichan said if you broke the rule you will be punished. Maho even liked a Yukirin article on twitter in December, after the assault happened, where she again explain the love ban exist.
    ofc other members commented on it and all of them said the ban was in the contract. Aki-P only gives elusive answers to this kind of topics bc he knows he's in the wrong and wants to protect himself.
     
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  11. rka

    rka Future Girls Stage48 Donor

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    Does this refer to dating co-workers? I think this is quite common. But i am not aware of companies that prohibits dating in general. I just read a book about Mitsubishi, and a former salary-man described how Mitsubishi actively encouraged its workforce to start families.

    Speaking of the RTJ, if i recall correctly, after Miichan-Gate there was quite the uproar in Japan, and some legal experts said a dating ban is not constutional. Since then, the way AKS handles RTJ violations has strongly relaxed, up to a point when the management merely stated they would let their fanbase decide what to do with Yukirin after being tegoshi'ed. Compare that to what they did to Masuda Yuka, who had to humiliate herselfs in front of thousands of fans.

    Also, this case is certainly not just about Maho being assaulted. If that would be the only thing AKS had absolutely no reason to cover the assault. Instead, they would surely used this to their own benefit. No, ber case is about AKS trying to hide massive corruption within NGT48, and going as far as forcing Maho to apologize for not "swallowing it down".

    But as i said before, a sincere discussion of this case requires a sincere discussion about idol business in general.
     
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  12. sambelteri12

    sambelteri12 Rank 81-100 (Temporary Name)

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    In some case, yes, no dating co-workers is exist. But most of it's just they are looking for fresh graduate (age max 25) and single.
     
  13. Cristafari

    Cristafari Stage48 Admin Staff Member Stage48 Admin

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    Okay, so on one hand I do agree that the subject of idols dating does relate to the subject matter. However, some of you are taking the subject on a wildly off-topic tangent. So be careful.

    I will say this however...

    Too often I see this subject discussed as a matter of legality. However, is the idea of idols dating fans a good practice? I would argue that it is not, for a myriad of reasons. Moreover, it is in the best interests of idols to keep their personal relationships private for their career's sake.

    In the case of NGT48, the matter was further complicated by the fact they were in a space technically shared by other members, forcing those members into a situation where their possible commitments to their own idol/fan professional separation were at risk. Moreover, they ultimately created a fan hierarchy, where certain fans were given "preferential treatment" over others. To me this goes against everything an idol is supposed to be. The fact that these members still haven't figured this out is part of the reason why people are still pissed off. So for those of you that say that the issue is solely about the assault, and AKS's handling of the situation. I disagree. It is also about how far so many of these members have strayed from what it means to be an idol. Until they figure that out, they are not idols to me.

    But I am not here to fall into the usual RKJ rabbit hole, been there, done that on this forum many times before.
     
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  14. DavidSorvino

    DavidSorvino Kenkyuusei

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    I sort of expected this thread (and the case itself) to die a bit, after the graduation. But, oh boy, whether it’s members or staff, they sure have been great at keeping it alive.

    That Twitter account of the manager is sure to keep the disgust directed at AKS for the foreseeable future. It is actually a good thing; the more they tweet, the easier it will be to detect lies and inconsistencies.

    No, but as we have learned, this group is perfectly set up for it.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2019
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  15. sscrla

    sscrla Stage48 Moderator Staff Member Stage48 Moderator

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    An apology for a misattribution.

    "The official Twitter commentary, "Sandejapon broadcasted on May 26th, reported the NGT 48's SNS turmoil," said former member Maho Yamaguchi's comment "3 for posting as it was posted on Instagram on the 25th. People do not want to have graduated. Please consider the meaning. "Was not Mr. Yamaguchi's post. I apologize and correct it. "

    https://www.sponichi.co.jp/entertainment/news/2019/05/27/kiji/20190527s00041000178000c.html
     
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  16. garnetjester

    garnetjester Kenkyuusei

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    I would love this, imagine the songs Akimoto would write for them! Warukii would be nothing for these girls. But seriously speaking, the fact that Maho was attacked and hurt won't let this happen ever, not to mention that if the bad eggs keep at their same deeds, serious fans will dismiss the group completely and even boycott it.

    I can't believe I've been a fan of 48G for so long and never realized that something this terrible could be happening behind the scenes.
     
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  17. WingsofAngels48

    WingsofAngels48 Kenkyuusei

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    what Maho did was absolutely not illegal and the word "threaten" is waaay too much of a stretch. All she did was try to uphold the rules. The rules say no dating, they were breaking the rules, she tried to report them for breaking the rules. Whether or not you think the rules make sense, they exist for a reason, and reporting coworkers who are breaking rules is absolutely the right thing to do from a business standpoint. You wanna talk about a management standpoint? Any decent manager who cares about their company will want their employees to follow the rules.

    get outta here with this "everyone was equally wrong uwu" bs

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
     
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  18. wlerin

    wlerin Upcoming Girls

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    The problem is that the rules don't say "no dating" (or "no connecting"). According to the third party report (under '"Connection" and contract') the contract contains only a vague provision against "improper relationships", interpreted by management as forbidding e.g. adultery or similar scandalous behaviour, not simply hanging out with fans. If Mahohon was reporting members for violating the "rules", she was doing so over an unwritten rule, not something actionable. It would then be a conflict between Mahohon's image of what an idol should be, and the reality in Niigata. I do think such a conflict played a part in this drama, but... I'm not sure there's primary evidence (as oppposed to anonymous 2ch posts) she actually reported them for breaking the love ban, so much as for disturbing other members with their activities. That is definitely something management should have acted on.

    Maybe they did. Maybe that's the reason Ayakani(?) moved.
     
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  19. WingsofAngels48

    WingsofAngels48 Kenkyuusei

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    either way, it's going way too far to say she was equally in the wrong as everyone else. She might not have even realized it wasn't officially in the rules since apparently it's very unclear and a lot of other members seem to believe there is such a rule.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
     
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  20. wlerin

    wlerin Upcoming Girls

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    I agree that Frans's post goes way overboard assigning blame to Mahohon as well as assuming a certain sequence of events, though I think some of that might be a language issue, e.g. using the wrong words to express what he means.

    But one would hope Maho would have had this conversation with managers and they should have explained their position to her at that point. If she kept pushing her interpretation after that... but again there isn't definite evidence of that. She had her personal code, but up until a week at most before the incident she seemed to still be on friendly terms with the members she indirectly accused. Thus, I think it more likely she tried to silently endure. Then came the assault and she decided enough was enough.
     
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