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NGT48 Assault Case

Discussion in 'General NGT48 Discussion' started by Cisalpine88, Jan 9, 2019.

  1. Tuhis

    Tuhis Kenkyuusei

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    Furuhata Nao
    That was a business decision they did and next judgement is consumers’ decision on whether to spend money on their product or not. After all this, I find myself allocating plenty of money to AKS. (I’d prefer Zest but...)
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2019
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  2. Reveen

    Reveen Upcoming Girls

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    Sunnyvale Trailer Park
    Except Maho said it was in their contracts.

    Maho didn't do anything wrong (except perhaps trusting management to fix things) and by intimating Maho is guilting of wrongdoing then I think it shows people what you are like.


    Victim-blaming. nice.

    Maho was attacked and she trusted management to sort things out. When they didn't she took the initiative into her own hands out of desperation, not only could something have happened to her again but she worried for other members of her team who could have been preyed on by guys (and their consorters) emboldened because they had gotten away with the attack on her. I think she handled herself very well and showed a lot of courage and to see that be demeaned is pretty low tbh.

    Including the members in the group involved with the yakkai wota one presumes.

    Yeah I think almost everyone would be cool with that.



    That's a pretty good summation of someone spending 193 pages dancing around when they could have summed up their argument with "nishigata/tano/kato/noe/whoever [didn’t do anything]"
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019
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  3. Dill

    Dill Upcoming Girls

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    I have no words anymore.


    Thank you @Cisalpine88 for the endless amount of stuff you manage to find around and post becaue for me it would be impossible to check it otherwise.
     
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  4. wlerin

    wlerin Upcoming Girls

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    Mar 23, 2012
    Oshimen:
    Muto Tomu
    I don't think this directly reiterates what I've already said, so...

    It wasn't. There was only a vague clause forbidding "improper relationships", which usually means things like e.g. adultery.

    But the fact she claims it was is another point against the revisionists (who, btw, are revising their own past claims, not just the general consensus).

    It's like you don't even know what this word means and are just using it as a pejorative. Nowhere did I suggest that she was to blame for the assault, nor any other events where she wasn't in full control of the situation and could be considered a victim, like her coerced(?) apology. Being victimised in one circumstance doesn't make her completely free from scrutiny in all others. That's idiotic. It also doesn't make her infallible. And it certainly doesn't provide her with clairvoyant, saint-like understanding of all circumstances leading up to and following her victimisation.

    Why she did it doesn't change the fact that she did it. But you still seem to be missing most of the point--she didn't make things worse by spilling the beans on Showroom. She made it worse from the very first day by insisting that other members were at fault. That's all she talks about in the park, that's the only thing she says Imamura failed to fix, it's what Matsumura promised her would be dealt with after the third party investigation (though, in that case, she specifically refers to 繋がってるメンバー, seemingly not just those involved in the case but everyone who had consorted with fans). Through her own decisions she inextricably nailed her assault case to this cross, and she did so on the basis of what her attackers (the people now being sued) said or implied. She turned a case of NGT vs. Yakkai into one of Mahohon vs. NGT. This made it much harder for Imamura and the rest of NGT management to handle the situation to her satisfaction. None of those good things they still could have (and should have) done were on her short list.

    Courage yes, wisdom no. If the story of her pleading with a sponsor not to drop NGT is true, even she did not intend for this to blow up the way it did.

    Not if they didn't help plan the attack. Simply knowing the guys, even meeting them in private, isn't proof of guilt. No amount of bleating will change that.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019
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  5. gish0046

    gish0046 Kenkyuusei

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    Did you ever stop to think that the word of the attackers wasn't the only reason she implicated other members? That she had other reasons to believe that and the attacker's words just validated what she already suspected?

    You seem to be very certain that the attackers lied but I see no reason to believe that they did especially considering there's so much evidence to the contrary.
     
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  6. wlerin

    wlerin Upcoming Girls

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    @gish0046 I already addressed that in the last line of the post you quoted. There is no evidence outside the attackers' brief initial statements (made in an attempt to calm Maho down) to implicate other members in the assault. The two issues should not have been married to each other.

    Careless personal information leakage through wota <-> idol communication is a problem, but it's not unique to NGT, and it doesn't remotely justify the amount of hatred the "suspect" members are receiving. Much of 48G's business relies on selling a sense of intimacy to wota, through handshakes (especially lengthy matomedashi), private mail, back and forth communication through Showroom and Instalive, tiny cramped theaters where getting a single direct "レス" from a member can be described as "better than sex". The members who are best at this are also the ones most in danger of unwittingly leaking personal information that could be used by a wicked fan to identify their homes or otherwise expose them to risky behaviour. But that's almost... necessary? For it to work. Not all wota, not even most wota, are interested in stalking the members and pursuing them in their private lives. But I think most enjoy that sense of share and share alike in conversation, to the point of only going back to members who engage in it (or who are too good at faking it for you to tell) and avoiding the ones who keep their inner workings more private. It's dangerous, in the sense that old-style 2-shots and handshakes were dangerous, and the walls and tables help keep members safe from further attackers. But they also reduce the events' intimacy, and I think most people will acknowledge there was more value in the old-style events for the customer.

    Answering DMs or having private LINE conversations with fans goes beyond what's required in their work, but we know members of other groups have engaged in similar behaviour without punishment, and while it's certainly more dangerous I'm not sure it should be forbidden rather than cautioned against (or about) and left up to member discretion. Even further beyond, to members arranging to meet up with wota outside of work, e.g. in restaurants, or actually inviting them into their rooms... there's some hints these things took place, but nothing you can really sink your teeth into. If it did happen, it was unwise, even, if you like, a betrayal of their other fans (although I don't fully agree, at least not in the case of meeting in public places). I have a lot of conflicted feelings about these things, in regard to the balance of keeping the members safe and secure as well as preserving the draw of "idols you can meet", and what level of separation between an idol's work and her normal life is allowable or desirable. But that's not very relevant here, except that I see them once again veering too far in the opposite direction with some of the proposed changes in the latest NGT announcement.

    Anyway, none of that is evidence that the members who engaged in it are guilty of Maho's assault. For that we need much stronger evidence, e.g. one of the attackers repeating his confession under oath. Or a member confessing, or LINE messages, or anything concrete. It's too terrible an accusation to make on conjecture. The extreme Internet response is not justified in the slightest by what we actually know.


    These particular wota also shouldn't have been allowed to embed themselves in NGT, but that's management's fault, one that they claim they are rectifying with facial recognition software and other tools.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019
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  7. Cristafari

    Cristafari Stage48 Admin Staff Member Stage48 Admin

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    Itabashi-ku, Tokyo, Japan
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    Cristafari
    Well whether we agree or not, I'm glad @wlerin has finally laid all of his cards on the table. The main difference here is the interpretation of what constitutes culpability. And while I agree with wlerin that these members were not necessarily guilty of perpetrating an assault on Maho, I philosophically disagree that means they don't hold a degree of responsibility for it. This is why I asked that question a couple pages back; "What constitutes culpability?" Is this strictly about the assault itself? Or is it about everything that led up to it taking place?

    The way I see it, these girls made a series of poor choices that were instrumental in setting the stage for the assault to happen, and that makes them culpable.

    They were consorting with these guys, which was a poor decision regardless of what may or may not be in their contract.. Moreover, they were doing it in what amounted to a quasi-dorm for NGT48 members, an even worse decision. They selfishly put other members at risk, members who may have wanted to keep a professional distance from fans, especially those kinds of fans. That alone makes them culpable on some level. (And yes, I believe we have heard and seen enough to conclude this was going on)

    Ultimately it amounts to them "letting the fox get into the hen house." If it weren't for their essentially condoning these guys' presence in this apartment building, they may not have been brazen enough to pull the stunt that they pulled, regardless of how they ended up there. Personally I take with a grain of salt every explanation I have heard of how they ended up in that apartment. A lot of it sounds like damage control to me. But the one thing you cannot convince me of is that it was by pure coincidence. Nor do I buy for one second that it occurred as some sort of slip-up. If a member gave them that information, it was because they wanted to. Not by some farcical "Oops, I slipped up" scenario.

    So no, I do not buy that these members were falsely accused, nor do I buy that they were in no way involved. Even if they didn't condone the guys doing what they did, it doesn't absolve them of responsibility for what ultimately took place. And I say that even with the concession that there's truth in at least some of what wlerin says. However, what they were engaging in is not normal idol practice. It was highly irregular, selfish, and inappropriate.

    Oh, and I personally think that these guys are guilty of what they are being accused of, and should be held liable. Even with the series of poor decisions made by AKS in the aftermath, none of this would've happened if it weren't for these entitled little jerks, so I hope the book gets thrown at them.
     
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  8. Reveen

    Reveen Upcoming Girls

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    Sunnyvale Trailer Park
    I don't believe that you're that naive to actually believe improper relationships relates only to adultery, that's an absurdly narrow interpretation.

    Revisionists? :fp: The revisionist around here is you.


    Yet you seem to be jumping through linguistic hoops in order to find something to accuse Maho of to discredit what she has said and done.

    Maho is the one closest to events, one that shared a dressing room, travel and accomodation with members. This issue didn't start on December 8th, that's just the day that it culminated in a physical attack. She's stated that she was propositioned by yakkai wota to hook up 2 years ago and turned them down. Obviously Tano, Nishigata, Kato, Noe and others didn't turn them down over the subsequent time period and that set in motion the events that led to the attack. It's certain that Maho knows a lot more about those members contacts with yakkai than you do through personal contact with the members, observation, line group messages, members snitching on each other and other ways, no clairvoyance required for that but you couldn't help throwing an insult her way.


    They were at fault. Cristifari has written a very good explantion of why so I see no need to reiterate it.

    Maho (and her friends) has a very clear idea of how an idol should behave and of the boundaries between an idol and fans, again both here and in previous pages Cristafari has explained that very well.

    And one can presume that Maho correctly concluded that you cannot have a viable idol group where a small subset of fans get preferential private treatment that puts them above other fans. And also that getting advancement through SSK votes and HS sales by consorting with yakkai wota is a corruption at the heart of the group. It's telling that AKS abandoned this years SSK after the NGT scandal broke, presumably to stop the media having a feeding frenzy and looking too closely at this years event.

    It wasn't Mahohon vs NGT, it became AKS vs Maho after they tried first to ignore the problem, then suppressed her, set up a sham inquiry and then finally forced her out of the group after she made a fool of them at the press conference.


    Maho was loyal to the group, that's why she trusted Imamura to take care of the problem. The snakes in the group only showed loyalty to themselves and their own personal advancement, certainly not to other members of the group and that's why the group is in the situation it's in now.


    It's more than enough for them to be kicked out of the group.

    And you finish with an insult, I guess it shows how desperate you are to prolong your stance.

    You simply can't be naive enough to believe that the attackers found out Maho's info by asking a random member on the street, @Cisalpine88 has demolished that canard many times by now.
     
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  9. ysa73

    ysa73 Rank 81-100 (Temporary Name)

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    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019 at 12:24 PM
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  10. sscrla

    sscrla Stage48 Moderator Staff Member Stage48 Moderator

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    Takayanagi Akane
    Toughest ticket in town.

    "Prior to the opening of the court, the district court distributed a wristband-type numbered ticket to the applicants. The group's fans lined up about 150 people for 47 general seating seats, and the magnification was about 3.2 times.

     A man (50) in Murakami City, Niigata Prefecture, who has been supporting the group since its inception, said, "The activity of NGT has been a part of life, so the activity has been suspended and there is still a hole in my mind. "I came to the court for the first time, wanting to know the truth of the case."

    https://www.sponichi.co.jp/entertainment/news/2019/07/10/kiji/20190710s00041000211000c.html
     
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  11. lionel90

    lionel90 Upcoming Girls

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  12. patapataful

    patapataful Kenkyuusei Stage48 Donor

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    kashiwagiyuki
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    if they really make these pictures public... I think NGT is done... The pictures are read as very well playfully free...?:fear:
    I don't know how this will be taken by the public...
    And maybe they think this happen in the other sister groups too?
     
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  13. tuxedo_gin

    tuxedo_gin Kenkyuusei

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    onishimomoka
    I seriously doubt they'll make them public. That's likely a crime. But sharing them in court would destroy the case against them and essentially destroy NGT and cause further damage to AKS.
     
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  14. liah12

    liah12 Kenkyuusei

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    iriyamaanna
    I am worried about this... I wonder if NGT48 will be able to recover...

    Things are not looking bright...
     
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  15. sdn48oshi

    sdn48oshi Kenkyuusei

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    tanoyuka
    NGT absolutely won’t ever be able to recover. AKBG might but def not NGT.

    The fact that they still haven’t disbanded NGT yet shows that AKS is still too freaking up their own butts. They are so delusional if they think this court case will help their image in any way.
     
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  16. Jurinavenclaw

    Jurinavenclaw Rank 81-100 (Temporary Name)

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    At this point, I'm just honestly curious what AKS has been trying to protect or hide all this time that led them to do all these stupid decisions.

    Like they've let other girls go for possibly less scandalous things, so why protect the yakkai fans - fraternitizing members?

    So I guess this new development may pretty much confirm the allegations.
     
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  17. Reveen

    Reveen Upcoming Girls

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    Only if there were "revenge porn" laws in Japan and I'm not sure there are. And even if there were, a publication might make a "public interest" defence (or they could just redact Nakai's nipples lol)

    Remember, there was no legal action (either civil or criminal) over Sasshi's scandal pictures



    Agreed.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2019 at 11:17 AM
  18. Sooyoung

    Sooyoung Kenkyuusei

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    Who are all the girls alleged to be involved in this?
     
  19. Ashitaba

    Ashitaba Rank 81-100 (Temporary Name)

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    I am pretty sure that in a world where sanity is upheld, those pictures should be illegal. Remember how SKE's Tsuji Nozomi's career was destroyed before it even started?

    If NGT is done for, then it's their own fault, though. This should not be NGT's case. It should be Yamaguchi Maho's case, and she should stand to benefit from winning it, not AKS.
     
  20. flutterbyu

    flutterbyu Kenkyuusei

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    yamamotosayaka
    Yeah, I think it's sadly time to disband. Girls who are innocent should be given the option of transferring to another group if they'd like. I feel especially bad for the 2nd gen and most recent draftee members who have barely had a chance to start their idol careers.
     

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