@Cisalpine88 You'd find a way to complain about and misrepresent ("allowed to stand") anything she said. Even if she said nothing. It wasn't for you.
Couple things I do not understand, apologies if they have been answered before: 1) Do we know there was intent to rape Mahohon? 2) How were 2 adult dudes unable to hurt one not exactly large woman? Were they either completely useless and thus unable to use force, or not aiming to actually hurt Mahohon and therefore unwilling to?
My reading was that they were there to coerce Maho to stop complaining to management about members consorting with the yakkai wota. However given that they were already versed in stalking and allegedly blackmail then sexual violence wouldn't be much of a stretch for these guys imo. Didn't sound like it got that far. IIRC They pushed her into her room, covered her mouth to stop her screaming and pushed her to the ground. Then the elevator started making noise and a non-involved guy came out and disturbed them. We simply don't know what would have happened if "elevator guy" hadn't come along but things have a way of escalating when aggression is involved. I don't know if the original aim was to hurt her but I don't get the impression that these are the type of guys that give a shit about anyone but themselves.
Bunch of articles from today's summary, mostly fallout from the performance: https://saitowinterstar.com/archives/828 Spoiler: From 8/19 The day before their performance, a parent information meeting was held, and AKS president Yoshinari confirmed their previous explanation that, “There is not even one of these so-called black members” https://i.imgur.com/GTSG5PJ.jpg [From Sponichi Annex: “”There are no black members” says operating company president — Parent meeting held a day before the performance”] https://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20190819-00000068-spnannex-ent Tokyo Sports interviews a management executive (Regarding Nishigata’s speech) “I think she wanted to say that she wasn’t at all involved in the incident” Regarding the “For some time there had been intermingling such as eating and messing around with each other” from the legal complaint, the management decided that this was insufficient to deserve punishment They assert that, “In the event further evidence came up regarding relationships (with fans), members that gave us incorrect information about that will be punished” https://i.imgur.com/CNiDtQA.png From Tokyo Sports Web: “The true meaning of NGT Nishigata Marina’s “big flare-up” speech — Management executive takes it head-on” https://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20190819-00000034-tospoweb-ent Was Ogino also interviewed by the police? REAL LIVE: “Those that were being considered the anti-Yamaguchi faction, such as Nishigata Marina and Ogino Yuka, etc., were interviewed by the police regarding the incident” https://i.imgur.com/2oinpKG.png From REAL LIVE: “Tearful “excuses” from NGT member that had ignited public anger — Reasons they feel compelled to resume their performances” https://npn.co.jp/article/detail/31451990/ Techinsight: “Since Nishigata talked about “things that are untrue” at the theater show, manager Hayakawa ought to have given consent to such discussion. Management should hold an open interview and point out the basis for “these things that are untrue”.” https://i.imgur.com/UfwHtqf.jpg From Techinsight: “NGT48 theater shows resume and disclose “inconsistencies” — NHK points out that there hasn’t been a press conference to lend some understanding to their “troubles”” http://japan.techinsight.jp/2019/08/maki08190953.html AKS official reporter and AKB newspaper writer Setsu writes an official article for Sponichi “(Eyes of the Reporter) You could see the change at a glance. In the dancing of all 16, from their fingertips to the tips of their toes, there was a beautiful unison” https://i.imgur.com/KEJVhdc.jpg https://i.imgur.com/pu9g0BN.jpg Pages from Sankei Sports, Daily Sports, Sports Hochi, and the Niigata Nippo Sankei Sports [Headline: "NGT — Theater performances resume after 3 months — Nakai and the 34 members sang!! and danced"] https://i.imgur.com/Vu6GCt3.jpg Daily Sports https://i.imgur.com/rNHYpii.jpg [From Daily Sports: “NGT — Denials of involvement with the confrontation and assault of a graduated member, “These untrue things are spreading””] https://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20190819-00000005-dal-ent Sports Hochi https://i.imgur.com/zCAnB1O.jpg From Sports Hochi: “NGT48: After 3 months, Nishigata Marina cries during a theater performance, “This untrue information…” on her “antagonism” toward the graduated Yamaguchi Maho” (more than 1000 comments) https://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20190818-00000329-sph-ent Niigata Nippo [Headline: "NGT has a normal performance after 7 months — Management believes the members' explanations — Fan feelings are complicated"] https://i.imgur.com/8fZtTAy.jpg NGT-related articles From THE PAGE: “The NGT48 restart — “All the members suffered”” (over 1800 comments) https://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20190819-00010001-wordleaf-ent From EntaMEGA: “NGT48 Nishigata Marina’s suspected “crocodile tears” — Denies involvement in the incident — “Why so much crying?” “She’s really hamming it up”” https://entamega.com/21828
I know this was probably discussed or mentioned before but may I ask, what exactly did each "bad members" do, that can be backed up with tangible evidence, that put them on a bad light? I'm just sure with Katomina, which was the totally careless and insensitive IG MyDay post. How about Nishigata, Ayaka, Ogiyuka, M̶o̶e̶ Noe, etc? With M̶o̶e̶ Noe, wasn't it about mocking someone using a duct tape or something? Not sure about the details on that one though. Thanks to anyone who would answer.
No, it was for people exactly like you, whom after everything that happened and could have happened if Maho wasn't strong enough to stand up, still believes NGT is the real victim. It's for the people still going around defending NGT mngmnt and members, those who just want their show go on and their little fantasy still fullfilled, uncaring of everything else. I couldn't care less about those men, "fans" is not even a word I'd use for them anymore. But because of this, because they aren't out there asking for real answers and pretending real protection, real measures against everything rotten inside NGT, the girls who are part of it are still in danger. Nishigata's words were manufactured exactly for people like this.
Ayakani acknowledged comments from some of the bad wota, including indirectly one of the attackers ("Joe-kai", referring to a meeting of wota led by Joe, though she seems to think this meant "a meeting at Jojoen"), on Showroom half a year earlier, as well as during recording time at a concert. They were big spender fans, however, and I don't think she has that many in the first place, so her giving that acknowledgment isn't as suspicious as some insist. Most of these streams were immediately after handshake events as well. She also made two photolog posts talking about how she doesn't think being majime equals success the day before Maho revealed the incident to the world. It's possible this was also the day Imamura tried to sit the two of them down to talk out their differences. Besides that and Katomina's instagram story? Nothing that stands up to scrutiny. Which makes posts like the one above this even harder to comprehend. She did a stream with Ayakani, about 7 hours before Mahohon did her reveal stream. In that stream, a commenter mentions that NGT had too few managers (17:46, comment was 「マネージャーさんが少なすぎるんじゃあ！」), to which Noe agrees and they start reminiscing about Kitagawa-san: After talking about her for almost three minutes, around 20:20 they decide to change the atmosphere with a "YouTuber" skit, and Noe left to find props. She found a roll of duct tape somewhere, and came back with it to do the skit everyone lost their minds over. Then they spend a while messing around with the tape and talking about random stuff before continuing the stream. Later when the witchhunt began in earnest, a cut of just the skit was spread around on the net, and someone found a tweet by Inapooh saying he was happy the manager was gone because she hadn't liked him. From this, an unsubstantiated rumour started that the manager had been threatened by Inapooh's gang and tied up with duct tape. At least two days after the rumour had been circulating online, a tabloid (Tokyo Sports) printed an article (on 2019-01-17) that seemed to say just that... except they had no actual evidence, and seemed to just be going off the Showroom clip and the anonymous speculations. The online version of that article has since been deleted, no other publication has come up with anything to support the story, and NGT48 officially denied the rumours--but of course that won't satisfy the True Believers. This is also the stream were Ayakani commented that she lost 4kg in a week (8:20~). A clip of just this statement was spread along with Maho's tweet about losing 4kg in two weeks--changed to one week to match what Ayakani said. However, that statement is a part of a ~6 minute conversation (07:00~13:00) about weight loss--how hard it is for Noe to lose weight, and how easy for Ayakani. Shortly after Ayakani's statement, Noe refers back to her own weight loss and gain before the last SSK, where she lost 4kg and gained 8. If Ayakani was referring to anything other than the simple fact she can lose weight easily (see: any of her gravure shoots, also her diet), it was more likely to this.
I don't trust any of those girls. They have been consistently antagonistic of Mahohon from day 1 of this ordeal in their own ways and the fact that there is no solid evidence of direct involvement doesn't distract from the fact that they did not protest for the safety of their peers or even their own, which to me is an admission that they are part of the problem. I've felt so disappointed in them, since I rooted for them individually and they had also sold us on their solidarity and friendship as a group, only to turn down like this.
Can you please share how were they antagonistic against Maho? Just want to clarify, I'm not siding with them nor am I defending them. I just want to know exactly what they did that put them under the "anti maho" side. One thing I can remember pointed out before was that Ayaka and Gatanee are supposedly friends with Inapooh's gang, though I can't remember what's the basis for that. Is Ogiyuka part of that circle as well? If I understand correctly what I remember reading in this thread, what many fans find wrong was that these girls were hanging out with fans, specifically, fans who were known to be of shady character. Management was ok with it and just ignored this. This resulted to these fans being emboldened which lead to them wanting to talk with/hang out with Maho who refused to. Am I correct? Can all these be backed up by any source?
For one, Noe's lack of sensitivity with a former staff member, katomina's snarky instastory (the fact that she was demoted is huge on its own, it was a big shuddup woman we're trying to make it die out here for your sake, plus the fact that it was destined to appear in a private account which I wouldn't doubt is reserved only for a few members to snark on others), the way they instantly made their distance instead of worrying about a peer who went through a traumatic event; the way only a few girls volunteered to attend Mahohon's graduation, when a grad stage is an event where at the very least, there is a whole team worth of people attending, sometimes even with guests from other teams or groups, and even if some members can't make it for one or other reason, the graduates aren't forced to stand on stage alone. Mahohon risked her career for her conviction and they wouldn't do the same. I'm sure if the whole group had reclaimed, even in private, they wouldn't be in the position they are now. If management had taken the issue seriously in private, they wouldn't be where they are now. And now girls who have supported Maho in some way are leaving one by one. What does that tell you of the girls that remain and management? Like I said, they have done nothing to show their good will, scared of repercussions or not, Mahohon has shown no signs that they have been kind to her, and I do not trust them. Out of them all, Katomina made me the saddest because I liked her the most. For me, it's not about proving they're guilty for the remaining girls; it's about proving their good faith. We are unable to see what happens behind closed doors and we might never have but we can get our conclusions from the consequences of those events that we do see.
I did but I left out some details about why Ayakani and Gatanee are suspected (because they aren't "tangible evidence" of any guilt), and also the first bit is like, the basic facts of the incident. But maybe I shouldn't be assuming knowledge. Ayakani and Gatanee were unfollowed by Maho on Twitter immediately after the incident, and they confessed to being interviewed by police and having their phones searched. Most likely they were the first two (well, two of the first three) members named by the attackers, one of whom was an Ayakani oshi. Several of the problem wota also lucked into Gatanee's bowling team. Joe rented an apartment near Gatanee's home, as well as across from Maho, and one other location, but again... these are guys who brag regularly about stalking members, that doesn't prove collusion with him on her part. As far as I'm aware there's nothing else specifically on Gatanee, and no proof of her involvement either in the attack or even with the wota in question outside of official events like handshakes and the aforementioned bowling tournament(s). Ogiyuka chose to stand by Ayakani and Gatanee after they were accused. Gatanee is a fellow D2 and Ayakani was one of the members she hung out with the most before this, and both are on her team. I think it's also similar to her attempts to redeem Rika's image in the past when Rika was receiving a lot of hate. As for her involvement with the problem wota... Inapooh has recently expressed interest in her, taken 2-shots with her at a recent official event, etc. but there is nothing to show she reciprocated this any more than would be expected by an idol to a fan. Some people are quick to draw connections between her rapid rise in SSK and this group, but the timing is way off. He hated her in 2017, and only gradually changed his mind after getting into N I don't disagree with that account of the situation, except that a) the extent to which they met with fans in private is unclear, and b) it's not actually that rare. The Third Party Report confirms that there were "connections" between members and fans, though this term could mean anything from LINE contacts to meeting up at a restaurant to parties to dating. The report even uses it to refer to the conversation on the street between a member and an accomplice that inadvertently exposed Maho's return time. How?!? ... Which is completely BS. Not a private account, Instagram allows you to post stories for friends only. While this incident was antagonistic, it was far from "consistent". If it were just about Maho having "gone through a traumatic event", this thread wouldn't be at 198 pages. Stop pretending it was that simple. What makes you think she would have let them attend? (Or that management would have.) You're blaming this all on the other members, but Mahohon has been "antagonistic" herself, starting from her first tweets after the incident. That is true. But would you believe it even if she had? People are already crying false about Mofu apparently getting along with some of these members.
The evidence against Tano Ayaka is that the yakkais came out from her apartment. AKS has indirect admitted this. Why would an apartment on a floor where lots of underaged girls lived could be rented of anyone and compromise everyone safety. If this is true the parents should take their daughters home and let the complete thing rot away
If it was that simple AKS wouldn't be making a process on what happened to Mahohon.... after she won't stand alongside them and she can't stand to receive any kind of compensation. Almost 200 pages of management doing it all wrong and members being shady and we are to assume Mahohon is responsible for all that? It was as simple as management not forcing her to apologize for "causing trouble" and taking care of its assets, separating itself from the attackers immediately, being honest, but now it's spiralled out of control. If you're not a bully, how do you prove people you are not? Genuinely befriending or at least treating others decently, not making jokes at the expense of others, going straight up and talking to the person who is accusing you and setting things straight. How do you do not endorse what the yakkai did? You break ties with them, even if it costs you earnings. If you're scared of repercussions, management is supposed to protect you, right? Even if it's for your own convenience, the general public does not need to know that. They only need to know you don't have the potential to hurt others. When Bunshun is on your side you kind of need to get nervous. When every single sponsor is jumping ship you kind of need to get rid of your pride. That way even if you have antis, it won't be because they think you're a bad person. Isn't that more comfortable?
The sad thing is that Tano is pretty in-the-know about these yakkai wotas and -- far from being the little unwitting (better saying unintelligent?) angel who doesn't know what she's doing, what they mean, or what goes around herself as you are excusing her to be -- she seems like she's pretty content and obliging, one can say pandering, with having the entire gang of them buzzing around herself as flies would buzz around a piece of ...well, you know how it ends. Oh, just bringing this one up because you gave me the opportunity, but this is actually a tip I received from outside before you cut myself off, since someone let me know about this little glitch in the Matrix sometime before, long after I stopped caring mysef (yup, it's not due to me looking in your SR backlog illicitly so there's no point in getting mad, the AKB Eizo Souko serves the same purpose if you know how to use it). In fact, it would have entirely flown over my head before, if it weren't for this someone...: Spoiler This is, spoiler alert, 9 solid minutes of Tano rambling nonstop about having finally recovered her cellphone data after much trouble and nothing else, but this is not important nor interesting. What's to note is that the discussion doesn't deviate from this topic the entire time, except once. The only time she ever stops to change discussion to any extent is when, at about 5:30 in, she notices that a certain "Hiroyoshi" had arrived and left a comment asking her about "something white". Then as if on cue she promptly answsers by showing what is a bunch of paper plates she had next to her as if they already knew what he meant, then she puts them back again and goes "Now, where was I...?". Now, who is Hiroyoshi, you may ask? Well, just an innocent yakkai friend of a certain guy (Inaoka)... What is the "something white" part even referring to? Well, this is a tweet (posted by Inaoka) from just two days prior to the stream in question which answers the question. And that's what happens when you act fast and manage to connect the dots just in time before those dots are erased away. Does it seem a normal interaction to anyone? Does anyone see this happening in a normal stream? Mind you, this is from the same period in which you were saying that Tano was inadvertently *acknowledging* only a couple of comments from those subhumans, except this suggests at something going beyond that. Because after all what's the point of sending these private dogwhistle signals (this is the only explanation it can be given to) on a public stream, that everyone in the entire chat room is oblivious about, apart from those in on an inside-reference that is only popular in that yakkai gundan? Excusing these dubious behaviors that surface from time to time as *just jokes* are only fine up until an incident involving these people and their cohort happens, after which it becomes legitimate suspicions and for a reason. Management only focusing on the "no conspiracy in crime" side of the affair this entire time, while leaving the matter of consorting "a private matter" upon which they refrain from taking measures, specifically retroactive ones, doesn't even begin to answer these suspicions... Regardless of these meme articles which ToSpo is known for since forever I adore this logic: "If the management says something officially, it means it's the truth" (because they never eschewed their answerability duties so far) Anyone who still takes the management's words at face value after all this time is either too naive or too stupid at this point. Since NGT48 also told that to me, guess we'll have to think that attackers figured out where Maho lived based on the time schedule provided by that other member, or that the Maho ever said she wanted to go back on theater, or that the teams dissolution was a decision taken by the members themselves, and I can go on with it. I guess as long as it gives you the sweet placebo effect you will take their words for it... The truth is that the management's believability is compromised, same goes for every once-normal entertainment news outlet connected to them (Sponichi just destroyed what little it had with their creative report of the handshake event send-off of Maho, Riko, and Rena, then continued digging down), and members themselves are too weak-willed or ball-gagged to admit to their own wrongdoings. Oh, by the way, it's shame NGT48 never had the guts to send out an equally strongly-worded communication regarding the hogwash that at the same time went around on Bunshun and whatnot after all these months, which contain allegations (one of them, I have already cited it before, many more for me to cite off the top of my head which I had always refrained from posting) that are absolutely more serious than this joke of an article you are getting so worked up about. What gives for them to react so strongly about it but to stay silent about the rest? Ask AKS if they will ever give you a reply.
ooh yeah, it's not like thinking you're co-workers set you up to be attacked where you live is anything to get so antagonistic about? especially after those you expected to help you did fuck all... but they must have know that, as you once put it, her attack "barely even qualifies as an assault" huh, cowboy?
Calling Maho "antagonistic" for exposing all of this the way she did isn't just deeply bloody stupid, it's ostensibly victim blaming. It's a real scumbag's take.
What AKS has actually admitted is that it was her former apartment. She had moved out months earlier. The man who came off the elevator and interrupted their scuffle was also likely a resident of that floor. "Lots" of underage girls? Last I checked Mahohon, Tano, and Mofu aren't underage. They're some of the oldest girls in the group, and the only ones we know were staying there at some point (well, Mofu is just a strong guess, but...). Some think Rena lived there as well and she would have been underage, but she's a Niigata native and this residence area was supposedly for girls from other prefectures. Of the full members, only two of the non-natives were under 18 at the time of the incident. There seem to have been several different apartment buildings used for this by AKS, so even that doesn't mean they were living there. That said, yes, management's failure to be aware of the potential safety issues and take measures to prevent them is a problem. Of course not, but she's also not to blame for none of it. I'm not saying she definitively isn't... but I am saying what you've passed off as "proof" of her involvement comes up ridiculously short. This 9 minute stream you've written a wall of text over is a perfect example. So she told Inapooh some joke over the weekend's handshake event, and this wota, who you already know is in conversation with Inapooh (and based on his Showroom comment history, is the sort to always be trying to include himself in other people's jokes), references that joke in the comment and Ayakani waves a plate at him. Shocking. Absolutely horrific. ... Yeah, sorry, no. Being a victim in one situation doesn't exonerate you from all the actions you take from then on. It also doesn't change the nature or the effects of those actions on other people. Victims shouldn't be blamed for being victimised, but that's not remotely what I'm doing.
