1. We have new admins and are making big plans for 2019 and beyond. Please read the state of the forum here and support if you can!

NGT48 Assault Case

Discussion in 'General NGT48 Discussion' started by Cisalpine88, Jan 9, 2019.

  1. shinra94

    shinra94 Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2015
    I can imagine some old bought-and-paid-for judge not wanting to 'rock the boat' and either siding with them or passing out some do-nothing judgment.

    The public know though. Nobody is being fooled here.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Creative Creative x 2
  2. Cisalpine88

    Cisalpine88 Upcoming Girls

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2009
    Location:
    Italy
    Twitter:
    speranzom
    Just for good measure, there's another translation of a public document from the Prefecture archives, which the people at Secret Night have sent a request for information disclosure for, and which they released today. This one is dated January 17, some days before AKS reportedly coming to their offices to offer an apology.
    Funny how it's made evident how they clearly don't trust a single word of what they are saying. At this point, I'm really eager to see if they can request for the briefing document of the other apology visit to the Prefecture, the one which had Yoshinari and her entourage personally visiting it after the third party report conference and the fallout in terms of advertisement deals. That would be even funnier, I can only imagine.
    The showcase of the document can be watched here on YouTube, along with the rubber-stamped notice of request approval.
    Cheers.

    [​IMG]
    On the apology visit by AKS, pertaining the controversy sparked by the assault incident on NGT48's Yamaguchi Maho
    Summary of the lecture by vice governor Mizoguchi

    Date: January 17, 2019 (Thursday), 15:30~40
    Hosts: Assistant advisor Shinoda, Policy Planning member Ogasawara

    (Assistant advisor)
    ・ On the 15th a document arrived by way of [blacked out (3 characters)], which is entrusted with PR duties.
    ・ Given how they say they want to come here to apologize by the 21st, we'd like to make arrangements, in a manner that the Chief director and the PR supervisor will be meeting with them.

    (Vice governor)
    ・ When there, which way are you going to address them?

    (Assistant advisor)
    ・ "Make yourselves clear here at this point in time", that is.

    (Vice governor)
    ・ It's necessary to go with a firm way of stating about it
    ・ "Do you mean to continue with that, are you renouncing on it, should we put it on hold?" [note: referring to the contract deals, especially for the National Cultural Festival], I'm referring to that part.
    ・ What wordings should we use to tell that?

    (Assistant advisor)
    ・ Considering how there are many critical opinions, we may want to have a consultation with the Chief director and the PR supervisor while also using those opinions as a reference.

    (Vice governor)
    ・ Once they'll come here to apologize, from what standing should we tell that?
    ・ "Alright, we understand", like that? That would be difficult.
    ・ What's written on the document states the obvious. But that's not what the general public is seeing as a problem.
    ・ That they didn't commit any illegal act isn't what is being treated as the issue.
    ・ Who is supposed to come [note: from AKS]?

    (Assistant advisor)
    ・ It is yet to be decided.

    (Vice governor)
    ・ We cannot tell them "Don't you dare to come apologize", but how do we intend to cope with them when they arrive?

    ---

    ・ I mean, if we accept their apology and say "Alright, we understand", we'll make a public laughing stock out of ourselves.
    ・ Anyone is fine for dealing with them, but the matter is still that it's going to affect the prefecture as a whole.
    ・ The most terrible thing of it is that if only they come here waving around what trifling infos are written inside the document, go on to apologize with that, and then the AKS side comes out saying "The Prefecture accepted our apologies", it means we'll find ourselves in a predicament.
    ・ They are speaking in a way which is all smoke and mirrors, that's why. The people on the other side...
    ・ What I'm saying is -- what things must the Prefecture speak out regarding the matter, and from what standing? It all depends on that.
    ・ So please have an exhaustive consultation with everyone, decide with what face to go on about it, settle clearly on a course of action, and then go have a discussion accordingly.
    ・ It's truly deplorable, I say.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2019
    • Like Like x 6
    • Informative Informative x 2
  3. wlerin

    wlerin Upcoming Girls

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2012
    Oshimen:
    Muto Tomu
    • Dislike Dislike x 4
    • Like Like x 3
    • Informative Informative x 1
  4. Cisalpine88

    Cisalpine88 Upcoming Girls

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2009
    Location:
    Italy
    Twitter:
    speranzom
    AKB48, where everything is nobody's responsibility, and everybody but the victim is a poor unwitting victim. Maybe they should make Passing the Bucket a sports discipline for the next sports festival they'll hold, the higher-ups can join in too if they want. ┐(´ー`)┌

    Next time you take material fresh out of the court -- which only the two parties involved (either plaintiff or defendant) can access this easily and early -- and use it as gossip fodder (because that's what it is meant for ultimately, to be recycled for this purpose in the most lowbrow and obtuse way), show us rather the real names of who wrote those pieces anonymously and who are the "informants" giving you info if you care about transparency.
    This way people can find out on their own how some unusual convergence of interpretations and wordings was all ~coincidental~, too. Like it sure was when Setsu tweeted on the "message" allegedly behind Sekai no Hito he at Mofu's graduation show ("stop insults to muh NGT members on social media", nothing of what Mofu really told), just before that Sponichi article on it wrote the same, with in turn the same oddly specific phrases as Sponichi echoed again by him on AKB Shinbun, sans the aspersions on Maho.
    Can you? You aren't a gossip magazine, why hide?
    And for one thing, yes, AKB Shinbun's Setsu does write pieces on Sponichi as well, when they do care to sign the articles, claiming no links between the publications is useless.

    And how fucking rich of AKB Shinbun to be the ones that are trying to invoke their "hurt reputation" and complaining about "denigration" on themselves (!) because of it. Who do you think you are? What do you think your generous ~distributor~ was attempting to do for months on end, without you saying a peep? And mind you, you are disassociating from it days later not because of Sponichi having wrote that piece (no words of condemnation says more than enough), but due to the media/Internet reaction that sparked afterwards (bad netizens, bad!) and caught you in, as it's clearly stated in that communication. If you were so offended, you'd break your contract with Sponichi tomorrow.

    Always thought so, but why in a civil litigation of AKS against the defendants, an AKB-aligned newspaper who has played the "yes man" game with AKS all along is passing along the excuse of the defendant side unfiltered and unchallenged, while calling into question a long-graduated member with wrongful insinuations instead?
    Some of the most mind-numbingly egregious excerpts out of it, note that it's all stated as if it were done conclusions, not allegations:
    加害者と被害者が同じマンションの互いの部屋番号を仲良く“隠語”のように示し、しかもその意味は2人しか知らない“秘密のポーズ”。これは一体、何を意味するのか。
    «The victim and the perpetrator friendly show each other's room number in "secret signs", in addition this is a "secret pose" whose meaning is known only to the two of them. What could this possibly be meaning?»
    今回入手した写真では、山口は同じマンションに住む男性ファンの部屋番号を知っており、自分の部屋番号も伝えていたことになる。しかも、この男性ファンが自分の部屋番号を認識していることも承知した上で“秘密のポーズ”で撮影しており、同じマンション内で2人の私的交流があったことをうかがわせる写真だ
    «In the photos we have obtained today, Yamaguchi is shown knowing the room number in which the man lives inside the building, while she was communicating to him her own room number as well. Anyway, by taking a shot of this "secret pose", being also conscious of the fact that the male fan knew that it was his own room number, this one is a photo that lets it show there was a private interaction between the two in the same building.»
    事件は「ファンの暴走」である一方で「私的交流があったアイドルとファンのトラブル」という側面が浮き彫りになった。
    «While this incident being a case of "fan's reckless behavior", another side is also highlighted that it was a "spat between a fan and an idol who had private interactions"»
    https://www.sponichi.co.jp/entertainment/news/2019/10/30/kiji/20191029s00041000396000c.html

    And I'm keeping myself strict with quoting that trash from Pravda Sponichi, but I can keep on with more. I'm sorry, but who the fuck are you even doing information distortion for, and who's paying you for this? Sad thing is that someone was even dumbly defending the intention of the article as if it were innocently neutral. Even standard gossip rags have the decency to add "it seems" at their end of their sentences. :rolleyes:
    Not the first time it happened either, even then using the same derisive remarks. Who's at fight with who here in that civil case, after all? Keep in mind all I have said in the previous posts.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2019
    • Like Like x 8
    • Dislike Dislike x 3
    • Winner Winner x 3
    • Creative Creative x 1
  5. wlerin

    wlerin Upcoming Girls

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2012
    Oshimen:
    Muto Tomu
    Good job, you found the one article he wrote for Sponichi. I guess in your world that's proof enough, just like those 2-shots were for people desperate to see a connection between Maho and the criminals.
     
    • Dislike Dislike x 9
    • Like Like x 5
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Creative Creative x 1
  6. Cisalpine88

    Cisalpine88 Upcoming Girls

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2009
    Location:
    Italy
    Twitter:
    speranzom

    Congrats on Sponichi for having their article publicly ridiculed on evening television yesterday, I guess this is what they were aiming for right? ┐(´ー`)┌
    Along with Maho's debunking, they also went around asking wotas to show what other similar poses they have themselves requested for members to do at past events, for any which reason. As a matter of fact, days earlier the Jouhou 7Days staff even asked people on Twitter for permission to use for their coverage the photos they had posted in objection to the article, like in this guy's case.
    [​IMG]
    Cheers.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2019
    • Informative Informative x 5
    • Like Like x 4
    • Winner Winner x 2
  7. primermicarrucha

    primermicarrucha Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2019
    by "desperate people" you mean AKS and their lawyers/anyone on their payroll? oh, you... :1st:
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2019
    • Winner Winner x 5
    • Like Like x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  8. Cisalpine88

    Cisalpine88 Upcoming Girls

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2009
    Location:
    Italy
    Twitter:
    speranzom
    Oh, anyway, the latest news is that the November 25 court session came and went without so much of a mention on decent media (and with the AKS lawyer literally hurrying away from the courtroom's backdoor), which is curious compared to the fanfare I saw from a certain side until the last session. And the funny thing is, the next court session won’t be until January 29, 2020 (!) -- given how they are apparently now in no hurry anymore to claim their 30 million yen in damages (the spurious reason to get a civil litigation going in the first place, about which they basically admitted "It never was about the money" anyway), to "find out the truth on the incident" (the purported reason, a mantra ofter repeated by the AKS lawyer throughout this time), or to dig up any dirt about Maho that they could recycle as gossip fodder against her as a payback, by using court material only available to defendant and plaintiff (the actual reason, or what used to be at least).

    All I gotta wonder is; once the whole operation, a defamatory one to boot, of trying to establish an intimate association of Maho with her own assailants fails as expected, what with the AKS-yakkai joint team already scraping the bottom of the barrell in terms of "proofs" as it is now, then what happens next? Who pays for the media smear campaign on Maho enacted since around the end of August by AKS-aligned publications, like Sponichi and Tokyo Sports, which banked it all on this narrative and helped propagate it also with their own fanciful stories from "AKS-related informants", fictional or otherwise?

    More to the point, is AKS going to hold a conference after giving up on the court trial, saying "Guess we couldn’t determine the troof, despite our best attempts. I assume that to regain trust we’ll now have just to ganbaru on with ~the power of music~. ┐(´ー`)┌"?
    Do they roll out yet another black member to put up a crying show, just like they did last time with Nishigata that "untruthful stories are being spread out"? Except that AKS and the AKS-friendly newspapers have since dirtied themselves with the same guilt that they accused random people of doing and have completely lost any right to do so. Crying out of pain while you try stabbing a former member in the back -- I sure wouldn’t put it past AKS to be this slimy, anyway.
    Do they repeal the pardon on all consorting members given by Matsumura at the AKS press conference (by Matsumura’s own admission to the journalists, without even first looking into how deep this association with fans went) and finally probe into their relationships past to see what comes out, the same way they tried and failed with Maho, instead of just limiting it to "there’s no criminal collusion found, they are clean, nothing to see here" (That was also AKS's very narrow definition of "(no) member involvement" all along, by the way. It took them until last month's preparatory papers to make it clear...)?
    Because, although media isn't relaying this part unlike others, the defendant’s latest statement paper sure does admit about a lot of members whom the yakkais and their friends had private associations with (and others, unnamed, that they did consult with on what way they might "meet" Maho), when confronted about their own utterances: Otsuka and Hagiri; Tano just with "some other fan"; whoever G is. Also, Nishigata with the third man, Kaisei -- yeah the two, about which they especially claim Maho knew of their consorting since before; those are all the members whose letter notations could be figured out by comparing the trial docs and audio transcripts.
    What's more laughable is that they have recordings sitting around of current members admitting with their very own voice to have had interactions and relationships with the perpetrators since who knows how long. And while being surely aware of these statements coming out of the member’s very own mouths, Hayakawa still had the nerve to _lie_, as she did on Twitter back in May, that the only episode of consorting she heard from the members was sending a thank you message to a crepe vendor who just so happened to be a NGT fan. Yeah, I’m not kidding. Go check.
    Or rather, does the management run away even this time without either them or their allied media cronies ever publishing so much of a notice, a rectification, or an apology (not to mention holding a press conference, that's already a given)?
    I hope they’ll pay their 4 (!) lawyers this time, because I’m sure that the third party committee is still there waiting for their compensation since March...

    Just so you know, since this civil case turned out more of a farce than I had prefigured, I guess I might at least say that the defendant's papers are so retarded that this is literally their new version of the story now:
    "I asked Yamaguchi at one handshake event if I could directly deliver to her presents without going through the management, maybe it was early 2017, maybe it was late 2016, I can’t remember and keep changing dates all the time, silly me. And since she couldn’t resist to my inviting proposal she eagerly agreed on my first try and gave me her building’s name, apartment number, AND telephone number for texting, there all at once" ...and the hagashi staff standing right behind me and listening didn’t even pull me out of the booth and curbstomp me on the spot because this is all an alternate excuse that I’m trying to push now, all with the tacit consent of AKS (irony added).

    And last month the AKS lawyer, who certainly was never in shortage of loopy declarations to make, even looked so content with it that he needed no further investigation on its veracity before accepting it, which is both perplexing and unprofessional at the same time. As he puts it, 2:13 into this video:
    "Anyway, as for the [defendant's] statement papers -- about this member who was living in front of Yamaguchi-san ... and that she might have informed the defendants about Yamaguchi-san's apartment number and was thus 'involved' in the incident, which was a rumor that was causing a fuss on the Internet [*] -- about that part the defendants denied too, saying it was none like that. Well, I find it relieving in that regard..."
    [* note: in reality that was what the perpetrators themselves were recorded letting out in the audio data; that the lawyer lied in this video claiming it to be ~Internet rumors~ says a lot on the intellectual honesty behind this whole operation]

    So yes, that's the excuse that the plaintiff is willing to concede and flow uncontested right now, since to actually contest it, it would then beg the question "Then who’s responsible for it?" and for the millionth time AKS would find themselves with fingers pointed at them, both the management and the consorting members they have foolishly pardoned, AKS will have to admit it is a result of their malfeasances that the stalking and the resulting assault happened, and the civil case will end there with an own-goal from the plaintiff admitting their own fault.
    Because, you know, this is a trial meant to save each other’s asses, not for each to admit to their own criminal neglicence/misdeeds, after all.

    Anyway, I'm going to have some nice rest until then, y'all.
    Post over.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2019 at 5:15 PM
    • Like Like x 10
    • Informative Informative x 4
    • Dislike Dislike x 3
    • Winner Winner x 3
  9. wlerin

    wlerin Upcoming Girls

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2012
    Oshimen:
    Muto Tomu
    Of course nowhere in that farcical wall of bile do you mention that AKS has buckled down on an assault occurring, despite the defendants trying to claim none occurred. What else are you leaving out because it doesn't fit your narrative?

    Legal cases take time, especially considering the whole country practically shuts down this month. So sorry it leaves you with nothing to do but twiddle your thumbs until January. Maybe you should find a more productive hobby.

    Yeah, the trash bin liner that invented (or rather, stole from 5ch) the story about a manager being tied up with duct tape is definitely "AKS-aligned". ... This Us vs. Them mentality you have going here is unhealthy and irrational.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2019
    • Dislike Dislike x 12
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  10. Cisalpine88

    Cisalpine88 Upcoming Girls

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2009
    Location:
    Italy
    Twitter:
    speranzom
    >Of course nowhere in that farcical wall of bile do you mention that AKS has buckled down on an assault occurring, despite the defendants trying to claim none occurred. What else are you leaving out because it doesn't fit your narrative?

    This?

    25日は、AKS側が再反論の書面を提出。被告と山口さんの間でドアの引き合いなどがあり、「暴行はあった」と改めて主張した。
    On the 25th, the AKS side submitted a written paper with a counter argument, asserting again that "the assault did occur", such as in the defendant and Yamaguchi-san actually yanking the door back and forth and such.
    https://www.niigata-nippo.co.jp/news/national/20191126509533.html

    LMAO, just LMAO. AKS needs to downgrade the definition of the assault to simply mean yanking a door back and forth now just to keep the other side friendly. If I'm leaving this out, it's just out of pity for the sheer stupidity of it, and also because I have yet to see any memo reconstructions of the document's content since media is untrustable on this.
    This isn't doubling down, this is "pulling your pants down" level of appeasement, my dear. Neville Chamberlain would be proud of this shit.
    Also, as expected, turns out these idiots are completely locked (and they forever will be, legally speaking) out of the police and prosecutor records to make any judgement: They never thought of wanting to request them (or somehow just "the defendant's statement report"...) until now. In case anyone wonders if this is based on an educated research (it's not).
    Lesson learned: never count on AKS to guarantee your rights.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2019 at 5:37 PM
    • Like Like x 11
    • Dislike Dislike x 3
  11. minaeshi

    minaeshi Rank 81-100 (Temporary Name)

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2014
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Twitter:
    minaeshit
    He's giving us relevant information, alongside his interpretation of the events, and leaving us with points to come up with our own opinions on the case. Why do you constantly try to pick at every little point or opinion he gives that seems to go against AKS? Being the devils advocate is one thing but at this point you just look like a AKS supporter.

    Even though this thread is filled with informative posts from Cisalpine, to whom you have clearly shown your discontent for, we are 203 pages in and you still come back to debate Cisalpine's posts with a counter argument supporting AKS in some way, every time. Maybe it's you who should find a more productive hobby.
     
    • Agree Agree x 12
    • Winner Winner x 5
    • Like Like x 4
    • Disagree Disagree x 4
  12. wlerin

    wlerin Upcoming Girls

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2012
    Oshimen:
    Muto Tomu
    His posts are close to 100% "his interpretation of events", with what little relevant information they contain either skewed or distorted so badly that they remove any chance of readers forming accurate opinions without doing their own research, which many of you sadly aren't doing. It's not like this is a new thing, either, he's notorious for doing this with his translations and updates here since forever ago, promoting his girls and turning people against those he dislikes (e.g. Rika). I was fooled by it myself in the past because I was too casual a reader.

    Because his hatred for them is unjustified. The fact is, if you look at AKS's behaviour overall instead of myopically zeroing in on this one incident and its aftermath, they are one of the better agencies in Japan as far as treatment of their talent is concerned (less so for actually getting them jobs, but...). They handled this incident with extreme incompetence, but there is no malice in trying to protect the girls who are left from the daily slander perpetrated by people like Cisalpine. Said slander perhaps even being why things turned out the way they did, Maho's own suspicions being continually strengthened not by anything that actually happened to her, but by the online rumour mill--which we know she was reading--until continuing as a member was simply no longer an option. It's damaging and should be opposed.

    He still believes they are responsible for leaking the 2-shots to Sponichi, because of course the defendants denied they did it. They've never lied ever, so it must be AKS. (I'm not saying their denial is proof of anything, only that it isn't disproof.)

    How much time do you suppose I spend responding to one or a handful of obvious errors that stand out to me every few weeks, as opposed to Cisalpine who spends seemingly his entire life on Twitter spamming this or that conspiracy theory only to come here once he's gathered enough material for another 5+ paragraph rant? What I do here can't be dignified as a "hobby". I wish I had the time and interest to respond to them properly, but I don't.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2019
    • Dislike x 8
    • Disagree x 3
    • Agree x 2
    • Like x 1
    • Winner x 1
    • Creative x 1
  13. minaeshi

    minaeshi Rank 81-100 (Temporary Name)

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2014
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Twitter:
    minaeshit
    So you've cured yourself of Cisalpine's brainwashing and now you want to be the savior of S48 who rights the wrongs of their posts that have defamed the members of the group?
    Looks like I may have misjudged you. :flower:

    Thing is @wlerin, you haven't actually written anything in support or defense of the actual ngt members in a while, but you have for the organization that clearly doesn't care about these members, as shown by their actions. So it makes me wonder whether you're truly even interested in the members well being or if you just enjoy coming here to nitpick at everything he posts. Also interesting to note that you don't do this when other people post relevant information with their own biased opinions attached, just Cisaplines. It's almost always directly after he posts too. And you only do it to others when it's in support of his. If any other user did this to someone for almost a whole year they w̶o̶u̶l̶d̶ should have been banned by now.

    :)

    If your posts are to make people aware of this so called distortion of events that turns people away from the members, you would post actual productive points to counter his points and lead us to a well rounded discussion, but you don't. Instead you come on here to make a snarky comment or two, while throwing jabs at the same few users views or anyone who says anything bad about the company, because "they're one of the better ones", even though there are many events in AKB's history to disprove this belief.

    You don't have the time to make interesting posts that lend to the discussion, but you do have time to make these annoying comments that don't lend to the discussion at all but only mocks the efforts of posts that do. Now, any sane person who understood the severity of this incident and the affect it's had on the members, would not find enough joy to come back to this thread time and time again to post something in support of the management who mishandled the event, suspended the members activities, and allowed for the group to rot. So what is it exactly that you "do" here?

    thanks again to those users who do actually post information or opinions that lead to the discussion, i lurk this thread for information and I read and appreciate them all even if i don't agree with some of them.
     
    • Agree Agree x 9
    • Like Like x 3
    • Disagree Disagree x 3
    • Winner Winner x 1
  14. wlerin

    wlerin Upcoming Girls

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2012
    Oshimen:
    Muto Tomu
    Because no one has attacked them in a while? (At least not in this thread.) Why are you suddenly acting like my posts exist in a vacuum? Cisalpine (and those parroting him) is the one going on and on about AKS this AKS that. There's not really anything else going on right now, as far as this thread goes. As for what their actions show, they clearly do care, or they wouldn't be burning their entire empire to the ground to protect a few girls from hate and slander.

    I don't think that's accurate, not over the history of this thread. Recently, sure, because he's the only one posting anything that merits a response or rebuttal. Arguably I shouldn't even be responding to your posts, since this discussion is entirely tangential and Cisalpine's posts are on topic, even if I find them reprehensible.

    edit: If you're talking specifically about the way I respond to others vs. Cisalpine, then yeah, sure. Because of the way he posts. I still have enough respect for his dedication to try to do more than just Dislike, as opposed to certain others. It wasn't as bad when Maho was still active, at least then his updates about her were respectful and accurate. He has turned increasingly bitter, however, and I... well...

    I tend to respond in kind. AKS, Yoshinari, etc. aren't actual posters here, but his walls of text about them are full of thinly veiled insults, disparaging remarks, and belittling--much more so than anything I've written--and with a dearth of actual reasoning--in part because that reasoning was done months ago and he's just rehashing the same stuff over and over again with every post, but still.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2019 at 2:18 AM
    • Dislike Dislike x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  15. Cisalpine88

    Cisalpine88 Upcoming Girls

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2009
    Location:
    Italy
    Twitter:
    speranzom
    >He still believes they are responsible for leaking the 2-shots to Sponichi, because of course the defendants denied they did it. They've never lied ever, so it must be AKS. (I'm not saying their denial is proof of anything, only that it isn't disproof.)

    Cute, but don't speak on behalf of me before asking.
    I'll clear up just this one: one thing you forgot to add is that both AKS and their yakkai pals did, actually: the former by having their statement released on Tokyo Sports (oh, lookie, they chose it as their official mouthpiece now!) and the latter following up by doing that on his friend Buntoku's Showroom (to quote him, even empathizing that he got permission from his own lawyer to show up in the public just to deny that, and adding he never shared those anywhere or to any acquaintance before, mind you).
    The problem still remains that these evidences don't grow legs of their own and go wherever they want without someone taking them there. Especially not without that explanation attached to it as they did, since by then the civil case documents didn't even become available for public viewing yet for anyone but the two sides in the litigation, and any court session except for the first one took place privately without any audience present to hear.
    For that matter, Paragraph 1 and 3 of Article 91 in the Civil Procedure Code tells me the following:
    1) 何人も、裁判所書記官に対し、訴訟記録の閲覧を請求することができる。
    1) Anyone can request to the court secretary to view the trial documentation.
    3) 当事者及び利害関係を疎明した第三者は、裁判所書記官に対し、訴訟記録の謄写、その正本、謄本若しくは抄本の交付又は訴訟に関する事項の証明書の交付を請求することができる。
    3) Only the participating sides [note: legal term for plaintiff and defendant] or any third party who could prove to have their interests connected to it can request to the court secretary to have a copy of any of the trial documentation, the original, or for the delivery of a transcript or an abridged summary, or otherwise of a certificate of the matters relative to the trial.

    I doubt that a little Sponichi journalist who is too shy to even put his name at the end of the article can ever claim to have their interests directly at stake in this case to ever be personally granted the permission to use it for his little piece, so that leaves us with just the plaintiff and the defendant.
    With Bunshun we can still play on the speculation that they may also have yakkais providing them raw material through their "clandestine activities" ("ura-katsu", to use their jargon) -- even though you think at the same time Inaoka and their pals are just jokesters, which contraddicts your notion of it, I don't know. But with that shit ending up on Sponichi especially at the conclusion of a long paper trail of AKS-pandering articles and already several months of passive-aggressive articles on Maho (poor Mofu never got the graduation article she deserved, thank you Setsu)? All you have to wonder is: who is that newspaper historically closer to, out of the two sides?
    Court material leaking out this easily and for the most frivolous of reasons should be taken as a serious issue, however laughable this is as an "evidence", but once again we find ourself in a proverbial situation of throwing the stone and hiding the hand, everyone shrugging and saying "it wasn't me" but nobody claiming responsability, much less even pledging to look into the source of the issue, or ever formally acknowledging it as such. A common leitmotif in this whole story, I shall say.

    And the most hypocrite things of all about it is how the AKS lawyer went on for months about him accepting to have the court proceedings private, saying it's also out of respect for the privacy and reputation of Yamaguchi they are agreeing to (awww...), saying after months that they are still "considering" whether they need to have her as a testimony (that I know of, they aren't even contacting her for confirmation on what the defendants say about her, it's media like Sankei that does once it's already out), only to have shit like Sponichi publish this right on the day after because someone got a little too excited. Cowards, backstabbers, and dishonests don't even beging to describe this company.

    By the way Yoshinari seems genuinely convinced, going by that infamous recording of the parent's meeting, that the yakkai must know the troof. To quote the harpy herself saying it to the very respectable families of the NGT48 members:
    実は私は第三者委員会の呼び出しに応じてくれなかった2人の被疑者の男性に対して、彼らが本当の事を知っていると思ったので、訴える前に、内容証明じゃないですけど『本当の事を知りたいので、是非話し合いに応じてください。応じてくれないのであれば、裁判にします』というふうに出していました
    To tell the truth, before suing them, I tried sending out a letter to the two suspects who didn't comply to the summons of the third-party committee because I thought that they must be knowing the truth, it wasn't a certified mail or anything but it was to the effect of: "I want to know the truth, please agree to having a discussion together. If you don't agree, we shall do it in court."
    ...the rest, I have already translated it before.

    So don't disappoint her on this one just now by calling them liars... At least I don't have to pretend anymore that AKS isn't a company with the same level of governance as Somalia, one which has their inside informations leaked around since the beginnings when you think about it, just because the members I care about are unfortunately still signed up to it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2019 at 8:06 AM
    • Like Like x 1
    • Dislike Dislike x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  16. EinhanderX

    EinhanderX Stage48 Moderator Staff Member Stage48 Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2015
    You folks don't mind to close out argument soon?

    I get the point of both side, at least trying to be.

    First, I think none of us here are fully satisfied with how AKS works. Everyone has that disappointment.
    Second, I think none of us here are AKS representative. Which means throwing that disappointment to each other face is misplaced.

    I don't really have to talk about rules, you folks get it. What I'm gonna say is, you guys are indirectly the representative of this forum. So yeah....

    On light note, this is why female idol group doesn't last really long, but football club does despite having typical Somalia-ness managerial.
    Somehow I have to respect those Juventini during and after Calciopoli. We idol fans (or former fans) have much to learn.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. wlerin

    wlerin Upcoming Girls

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2012
    Oshimen:
    Muto Tomu
    As it says in the article itself, AKS gave this information to "some sports papers" (一部スポーツ紙, including at least Tokyo Sports and Nikkan Sports, and probably excluding Sponichi). Tokyo got their article up first by a few minutes and because of that it's the most quoted, but that doesn't make them anyone's "official mouthpiece". This interview also reiterates what they said immediately after the Sept. 28th meeting, that the evidence provided by the defendant was insufficient (something Tokyo Sports got wrong, to AKS's detriment, which error you then spread here). Note that they first said this before the 2-shot photos leaked. Why would they leak something they know isn't good enough?

    Quoting the civil procedure code only has bearing on AKS. AKS likely only has access to the photos through the trial documentation, but they're the defendant's own digital 2-shot photos. It's not like he entered the only existing copy as evidence. Moreover, he's had these photos for 2 years, and it's not uncommon for wota to share such photos among themselves. He could easily claim not to have leaked them while still being the source of the photos. Besides which I'm sure he still has a copy of them outside those documents. Yes, okay, the fact that they leaked immediately after they were entered as evidence is suspicious, and I think it's enough to conclude one or the other was involved in that leak. But the defendant is much better positioned to do so without exposing himself to legal problems.

    I think they are shitposters. There's a difference. Inaoka has openly admitted to claiming to do things he didn't (e.g. leaking Tano's scandal)* basically just for the attention. That doesn't mean he hasn't done other equally bad or worse stuff, it just means his word is worth nothing. I do think, and I've said since the beginning, that Bunshun is if anything on the Yakkai's side, not AKS's. Their recent articles are more evidence of that. Even when their stories almost aligned with AKS they were still at odds, e.g. trying to lay the blame on unnamed members, Rika and "Z-kai" when AKS was claiming no member was involved.

    * Admittedly here it's his word vs. his word, since he has both claimed he leaked it and claimed it was someone else. The context of the former was bragging, the latter was seemingly him being serious and introspective for once, but both are untrustworthy.

    So, in the end you have nothing but speculation. And yet you feel justified in calling them hypocrites, cowards, backstabbers, and dishonests. Based on a separate paper by an independent company that's only been published by Sponichi for a little over a year.

    Here's hoping it is formally acknowledged and investigated.

    It's only "hypocrite" if anyone in AKS was involved in leaking this, which is not even the most likely explanation, let alone proven. Why would anyone on AKS' side try to use these photos as evidence? It should be painfully obvious to anyone with any knowledge of handshake meetings that they demonstrate nothing. It's much more up 5ch shitposters like the yakkai wotas' alley, even knowing as they do how weak it is, and it argues for their version of events rather than the one AKS has been presenting.

    ... because they do? They were the only other persons on the scene for the whole incident and aftermath, and if any planning went into it, they were involved in that too. Whether they're actually willing to share those facts is another question. How is one supposed to respond when you take simple and obvious statements of fact like this and try to spin them into a heinous crime?

    Because they don't and never have exercised draconian control over the members' lives. Most of them still live with their families where possible, instead of under partial house arrest in dorms. For the others, they got in trouble a few years back over giving members a sizeable housing allowance to live on their own. Even in Niigata, where there were member "dorms", those dorms were treated as normal residences, with the members free to do as they please. And apparently members and staff aren't so in terror of AKS's retribution that they're too afraid to leak the contents of meetings... because AKS is a fluffy old teddy bear of an agency.

    Should they have been stricter? Given what eventually happened, yes. If you want to call AKS weak, I can't really argue against that. If you want to call them incompetent, yeap, I'll be the first to agree. But when you start making them out to be this evil black agency pulling all the strings in the dark, I really have to laugh.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2019 at 5:35 AM
    • Dislike Dislike x 4
    • Like Like x 1

Share This Page