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NGT48 Assault Case

Discussion in 'General NGT48 Discussion' started by Cisalpine88, Jan 9, 2019.

  1. lionel90

    lionel90 Under Girls

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    OK I can't stay silent since you keep blaming on me
    Let me remind you where all this started, before i started ranting:
    So that's it right ?
    It is really impossible to talk about NGT48's news and events without a random poster behaving like a kid and parasiting with "disserve to disband in peace" an no other form of thinking.
    Sorry but if the only contribution is to conclude "disband", it would be better to say nothing.
    Sadly, because some person posting on a foreign fans forum are wishing NGT48 to disapear from the surface of the earth doesn't mean they will. (they wouldn't need an oversea internet platform if they had such power)
    My point doesn't change, it's not about "blah blah disband, blah blah pathetic farce , blah blah", see my 2 previous statements, I explained clearly enough.
    If you want to keep contesting the assault case outcome, this is not the right place to do so. (refer to the one i allready mentionned 2 times).

    Beside that, Cisalpine88, I thought you had a lot of experience in using this forum, And you would be wise enough to not come to quick conclusions, unfortunatly I am wrong. And please don't come with details such as a misplaced coma or a number, I am human, not an encyclopedic computer.
    I have my own opinion about the case, I'm keeping it to myself, it's none of anyone's business.

    And finally to give some sort of answer to the initial question (which is poorly masking the poster's real intention), just visit NGT48's official site where some sponsors / partnerships are displayed. If those are enough to cover the group's expenses, it is another story.
    Feel free to open a topic on this question if you like.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2021
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  2. wlerin

    wlerin Next Girls

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    @lionel90 Not to mention the only reason to even suggest NGT is "full of bullies" is if one believes the torrent of deceptions and lies that spewed forth from 5ch following the assault, since that wasn't part of Maho's narrative. Hence, that was actually the first mention of it, albeit obliquely.

    But eh. That post didn't even deserve a response, and it certainly didn't warrant a defense.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2021
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  3. Cristafari

    Cristafari Stage48 Admin Staff Member Stage48 Admin

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    Let me be perfectly clear...

    This "Assault Thread" was created for the people who wish to continue to fight and snipe at one another over the issues of the NGT48 scandal. We do not want to see the other threads derailed by the same old arguments, even if they peripherally have to do with the subject of that thread. It is my opinion that there is a certain amount of antagonizing going on here, and the staff here is sick of continually being called into NGT threads to referee the same old fights being perpetrated by the same people.

    If it happens again, we will do the same thing. If people don't like that, too bad.
     
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  4. Cisalpine88

    Cisalpine88 Next Girls

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    Good. So in essence you came back to me again just to reply to me "Nope, nope, not telling", even though that was a rhetorical question you brought up first, and which nobody was talking about until you did. You apparently "can't stay in silence", but you did in the end anyway.
    I have been pretty clear with my question about what opinion I wanted to hear from you, and it's none of these, it's not about disbandment either, and I don't get why you keep stressing on that point for no reason. Be more attentive and don't play silly.

    Here's a tip: from now on use only the sentences necessary and nothing more, if you feel that you can't handle a discussion over that extra bit. Bye.

    ---​
    Speaking of harassment? Yes, I'm pretty sure that the point about harassment coming from members of the same group was expressed in clear terms. That and all else was the least to do, after her former agency was blatantly taking advantage for the n-th time of their own friendly media in a personal attack on her post-graduation. You know, the one that you tried to justify by saying how "there is no malice in trying to protect the girls who are left from the daily slander". Evidently, who knew, this had necessarily to be done by staging a slander campaign on the one who left -- thankfully everyone in the public could see through it anyway. Not that apparently you thought anything of it, how selective of you.
    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ts9IMtb8qG-o96grET83A5f56FzMCWH33fMuDwYxx2Y/
    So it's not just bullies, but bitches too. There's nothing to suggest me there weren't people in the group who actually enjoyed the company of these thugs.

    Since in no part during this thread have you ever done anything except attempting to do damage control and arbitrary downplaying over her, I'd be very happy if you don't start passing yourself as her spokesperson or something just now for your own ends. At best you're a Judas. Also, the term "narrative", please reserve it to the stories the management was concocting at several points during the controversy.

    Accusing vague websites whenever you're flustered at the situation is pretty lame too, and it's ironical you did so just after in the other post you wanted to apparently peddle on me your imaginary "heroic story" about Ogino, damning in the same breath Maho for having made life harder for her (did I guess the subjects right, now?). These white/gray lies, are still lies.
    I'd rather you stop putting her in every discussion, anyway: fact is that she was just a NPC in this story. Heck, even Nakai did something more concrete.
    She could have used her mouth or fingers any time to express herself, instead of continuing on with her out-of-touch behavion that made (and makes) everyone wonder if she's provoking on purpose or is a dolt. Wasn't she a "leader" or something until then? She surely loved to act vocally as one, so that was her proof of the pudding. The blame is on her for not knowing, at 20 years of age, how to behave appropriately to the situation, the shitty blunders and omissions, the deafening silence, and the out-of-place remarks on the few times she actually told something (starting indeed from the 3rd anniversary show). Not 5ch posts, much less Maho.
    Bye to you too.

    ---​
    I have no idea what you are talking about here. In reality the thread was spun off in January 2019 from the Maho thread. The first posts by me at the beginning of the thread belonged to it in fact, as did the first dozen or so pages of replies.

    It is out of respect for the incident that I want to keep out as much as possible. This veiled invitation to "go here for shitposting" is frankly unhelpful.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2021
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  5. lionel90

    lionel90 Under Girls

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    We are definetly not on the same wave length.
    As you wish, have a Nice day.
     
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  6. wlerin

    wlerin Next Girls

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    I'm fully aware of what Maho said 10 months later. What you leave out is that she specifically referred to that SNS "harassment" as something "we all know" about elsewhere. But we only know about Katomina's instagram story. That wasn't bullying, sorry. And there was no bullying in her original narrative nor for months afterwards. If bad blood developed between the members afterwards (I am not saying it did) it is not particularly surprising, nor at all "bitchy".

    Not to mention the entire premise of that doc is the nonsensical leap to thinking AKS leaked those pics when the attackers are the ones who had both unrestricted access and the most to gain from doing so. Also, Sponichi never "ran" AKB Shinbun. It was the publisher, nothing more, and not even the original one.

    >b-but maho said--

    By that point Maho was relying more on other people's takes on the case rather than expressing anything from her own knowledge. The very tweets you translate in that doc should make that clear as day.


    Finally, here's a tip: from now on use only the sentences necessary and nothing more. Bye.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2021
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  7. Cisalpine88

    Cisalpine88 Next Girls

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    Yes, take out your rage at me.

    You can make your apologetics without making up things that aren't in the text. :*

    Except not. By the time evidences are being presented in court, both plaintiff and defendant have access to the original material at once.
    The Sponichi article coming out by the time that they were submitted, by that point both sides had them at hand already.

    And with that, one gotta also ask who needed to wait until they were submitted in court for them to have access to it or leak any sort of info to the media.
    Also another curiosity to keep in mind about the whole setup: The fact that what had been leaked on Sponichi as cheap tabloid fodder was in fact the court "evidences" for some reason was kept hidden all along, as if to make them appear unrelated to it. The article never states or hints at it once inside, only slyly passing them off as a newspaper "exclusive".
    It was only when this entire shitshow got blown over by Maho that it came to be known (so much for "relying on people's takes"), and even the AKS attorney had to admit to it only days later.

    Also, let's rather not talk about who had more to gain by framing Maho. Both had.
    Both sides' interests were one and the same in that collusive suit, no need to beat so much around the bush on that. It was to the point that AKS were happier to spread around the story and adjust it for their own benefit sometimes even before they were supposedly coming up in court, rather than arguing or cross-checking them in their due place, so you tell me. So much for wanting a true version of the events.

    Quoting AKS-related personnel, Yoshinari was so happy about it she even proclaimed it directly in front of all the members days before the (recorded and later "leaked") parents meeting of August 17. Really puts that "cryout" appeal done by that certain member at the theater reopening show, about "untruthful things that are spreading", into a completely different, hypocrite perspective.
    And speaking of the October shitshow again, at the court's press interview, days before that shit ended up leaked on Sponichi, the AKS lawyer was even marveling at these magnificent "evidences of consorting" even being vague and misleading on purpose about both their number and nature (saying these two 2-shot event photos is "less than 10 evidences of consorting", for one, is really disingenuous, who was he inflating facts for?). Dishonesty all around just to push a story through.

    That you think that Sponichi was closer in ties and interests to some yakkais whose name wasn't even made public in the papers, as opposed to AKS, is nonsense on your part. It's like you have never seen an article from them.
    What was the editorial line of Sponichi at that shameful period of time, also? Completely AKS-leaning from the start often sourcing from unnamed staff to follow what management story they wanted. Later coupled with petty personal attacks on Maho, and these wide sensionalistic print of these claims all rolled up in one. I don't think I have to point to you the series of articles along the same line in the lead-up to that. I have already done it back in the day.
    And when have you seen Sponichi running a similar, personal-targeted tabloid "scoop" meant to damage someone else? I'll tell you the answer: never. What makes it more suspicious is that it's not even in their newspaper's nature to run those things.

    I love the blind pedantry of this part: in trying to "debunk" the tweet at any cost, he misses the point that in the original it's a generic "yaru" to mean exactly that generic connotation, or that this wasn't the main point at all of the argument in the first place.
    Please use your apologetics for something more deserving.

    Yes, let's talk about October 30.
    By that point Maho and Ken-On were done writing a power of attorney letter and would send over an agency's representative to the Niigata court with it, which included the permission to countersuit and to join the litigation as a third party against the two litigant sides. Not exactly the sort of collaboration that they were hoping to extort.
    Ah, the things that are found in the courthouse for everyone to access...
    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wYicd6hor702NpTAldhHX25-020eMGcMrfkvOTgjH7E/

    By that point, it was clearly when enough was enough and hiding behind a bush saying "It's a misunderstanding!!" while flinging this chimpanzee poop through these AKS-aligned media really didn't cut it anymore as an apologetics.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2021
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  8. Jurinavenclaw

    Jurinavenclaw Future Girls

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    Walls of text...

    I just wanted to know what were the supposed involvement + proof/basis of the hated NGT girls?

    Like sure, Katomina's incident is quite clear + proof included.

    How about Ogino? Yamada Noe? Is Nakai Rika included?

    Yes I know these are old issues but even back then, I can't seem to find direct posts regarding the issues with some NGT members.
     
  9. bonjourmarlene

    bonjourmarlene Under Girls Wiki48 Editor

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    I have to disagree on that point. I think you have to hate someone quite a lot in order to feel so annoyed about their horror story being talked about on TV. Minami having so little compassion for what happened to Maho is proof to me that Minami doesn't care about Maho. I don't even wish what happened to Maho on my worst enemy.

    The occurrence that makes people connect Ogino Yuka to the whole thing is that she was seen hanging out with Nishigata Marina and Tano Ayaka when Maho's story was made public. I'm not using this as proof to say Yuka hurt Maho, but this assault case has definitely created two opposing sides; and Yuka has shown her allegiance to Marina and Ayaka, rather than Maho. If you are part of the fans/onlookers who choose a side, you will either consider this a good thing or a bad thing.

    As for Yamada Noe, when Maho made her story public, she said "I lost 4kg in two weeks because of all the stress." Three days later, Ayaka was on a SHOWROOM livestream together with Noe, and made a joke like "I lost 4kg in a week" but made it sound like an accomplishment. Noe was laughing about it. It could be entirely coincidental, but it's a rather insensitive remark after Maho's statement.

    As for Nakai Rika, people seem to think she's part of the "good" gang (if you're on Maho's side that is, I know people on this thread will disagree with my wording here). I think this is mostly due to the fact that Maho mentioned over and over again how much she loves the people in Team G, and Rika was part of Team G at the time.

    You're free to make up your own mind over these incidents, none of them are entirely conclusive, but at the very least, they were being insensitive towards Maho. Maho hadn't pointed fingers at any members in particular by this point, so for them to act so insensitively towards Maho means to me that they already felt negatively towards her before she brought this to light. Let's say they weren't involved in the attack itself, for them to care so little about a supposed friend being attacked by two men speaks volumes to me, and I have no respect for people who care so little about the suffering of others. I don't go out of my way to attack these particular members, but I also don't think they deserve any of the defense or support that some people on this forum or other social media platforms are providing. Just like management, they were trying to make Maho feel like what she went through isn't worth mentioning, that she's overreacting, that it's funny to laugh about the trauma she's experiencing.

    One last side note: After Katomina left NGT48, she joined an agency that is run by NGT48's former manager, Imamura Etsuro. The same guy who was demoted for not caring enough about Maho's assault. For her being willing to join his new agency out of the blue, she is once again showing that she cared more about the reputation of the group rather than what happened to a fellow group member. If the girls and management had shown more compassion towards her, I'm 100% sure Maho would have mentioned all of this and made NGT48 like a group worth of people's support. In their attempt to save face rather than help a young woman, they lost face.
     
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  10. Jurinavenclaw

    Jurinavenclaw Future Girls

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    Thanks for the answer.

    A follow-up question though, since it seems I've mixed up some stuff or got confused. I remember part of the assault issue was that the attackers were so called Yakai fans who were tolerated by the management to have a closer contact with some members. Wasn't Yuka, Tano, and Marina supposedly involved in this? I remember this was one of Maho's points when she was speaking up after the incident.

    Can anyone try to shed a light on this?
     
  11. David61

    David61 Under Girls Stage48 Donor

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    This is exactly how I feel about Yuka. It seemed to me at first that she wasn't directly involved with the assault on Maho and although there were photos circulating online of her with one of the yakkai wota I gave her the benefit of the doubt. Having said that, at the time Yuka was my kami-oshi not just in NGT but in 48G as a whole (following Mayuyu's graduation), and in 2018/19 I had 3 great meetings with her in Japan which always will be among my most memorable with any 48G member - therefore I'll admit I was still looking at her through somewhat rose-tinted spectacles. Even so I was waiting for her to say something about being sympathetic to Maho's suffering and as time went on during 2019 and she still wasn't saying anything I felt I had to give 100% support to either Maho or Yuka. With little hesitation I decided it was time to shut the door on Yuka.
     
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  12. Cisalpine88

    Cisalpine88 Next Girls

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    Tangentially, if you take in the fact that the yakkai wota she was caught by Bunshun back in Summer 2018 (you know, before Sousenkyo result) living in with in her same apartment also happened to belong in the same yakkai circle as them. But it's all a small world after all, and that had been long an open secret.

    Rereading the transcript from that Bunshun broadcast, at least the makeup of these people was true to reality and summed it up perfectly well what they were all in Niigata for. She wasn't even fingerpointed herself, so her overreaction on Twitter right after that was weird in the way it was calculated. The only thing that was false in there is that there doesn't exist a gang of yakkais to the name of Rikiya, despite there being lots of such gundans.
    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TNG4Y4OVz5sxO4nG6WQUTbrSdwKapvubqYz2yZBqmfo/
     
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  13. wlerin

    wlerin Next Girls

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    Frankly I think your position betrays a lack of empathy on your own end. First of all, as Cisalpine88 already corrected, the clip she was reacting to wasn't about her "horror story" but her graduation stage. It does mention the incident eventually but the brief clip in her instagram story is from the very start of the segment, so she can't possibly have been reacting to the contents of the show but to the 5 months of media circus culminating (it seemed at the time) in Maho, Riko, and Rena's graduation stage. Finally, based on the rest of your post you seem to have conveniently forgotten that Katomina was one of the original 4 "suspects", based on Maho's following list. So she herself was a target of hate for those entire 5 months.

    Of course it was inappropriate, and as I said in her thread I don't think she's ever been a "paragon of compassion", but your judgment is unjustifiably harsh.

    And this is just completely uncalled for. Not wanting to hear about something you're all too familiar with for the thousandth time doesn't mean you're glad it happened.

    It wasn't three days later. It was the same day, seven hours earlier. It was a reference to something but not Maho's weight loss.

    ... And that conclusion is insensitive towards the rest of those members.

    What. Yes she had. Gatanee and Ayakani were called into the police station to account for themselves. Even before she made stuff public, she was demanding the members the assaulters had tried to excuse themselves by naming be fired, and anyone else Etsuro found had consorted with fans. That was her condition for not breaking the story immediately. And then after her stream they were almost immediately identified based on Maho's twitter unfollows. Noe and Katomina also got caught in the crosshairs for the same reason, although Maho had never followed them in the first place.

    This is such a bizarrely narrow way to view the whole mess. If it had ever been just about the assault then it would never have blown up the way it did. But within minutes of the assault Maho had turned her focus from the men that attacked her to the members they'd tried to name in their defense. It was never, not even from the very beginning, as plain and simple--either support Maho or be callous and care nothing for her suffering--as you want to believe. I wish it had been.


    If only someone could. Lots of accusations, lots of vague words (e.g. つながる, which can mean anything from exchanging DMs to one night stands) thrown about, lots of elaborate fanfics spun out of stray tweets or Showroom clips, but no actual proof nor specifics. The closest we got was that the yakkai who assaulted Maho came out of a room that at one point belonged to Tano Ayaka. But management claim she'd moved out months earlier, and I've not seen compelling proof otherwise. We know other people lived on that floor, based on the unnamed man who got off the elevator and interrupted the assault.

    There's nothing on Gatanee as far as I'm aware. Plenty of fanfic about Yuka but it all evaporates on closer inspection, e.g. the "photos with a yakkai" that David mentions above are just cheki from a Horipro event.

    Now that's not to say that there wasn't an issue with members and fans having too close of contact. The third party investigation conducted a survey among members and a significant number admitted to it. But again we have the issue of vague language (a more formal word than つながる with the same range of meaning) and no specifics. And... frankly, from what I've heard, this wasn't an issue unique to NGT. For a publicly known example, see Takamina's poorly received defense of Kitagawa Ryoha's "papakatsu" fundraiser.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2021
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  14. Cisalpine88

    Cisalpine88 Next Girls

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    >Gatanee and Ayakani were called into the police station to account for themselves.
    It is the police's discretion to summon in for questioning those they deem necessary, going to the point of seizing someone's cellphones to get them inspected, unless you want to give me any hint that it was Maho who did it all by herself.
    The police, as it turns out, deemed at least these two to be related to the case in the end (when Bunshun released the leaked audio of the Murakumo recordings from the day of the incident, they prefaced with saying that "real names and any other references of those members who the Niigata Police eventually concluded did not effectivey have relationships to the incident had been cut out", and theirs weren't)
    It's not just them, let's say that out. The police also called in quite a lot more members and other people than just those two, actually, which in turn is one of the factors that protracted things for long. To be clear: we are speaking in the order of over a dozen at least, some even called in repeatedly. (from Kasai's Tweetcasts/Showroom, link here)

    >Katomina was one of the original 4 "suspects", based on Maho's following list
    Like where?
    You are still hung up about a relationship chart you once saw in passing, perchance? Because for your information it only, factually, noted inside she is the daughter of the president of the event organization company Shinsen, which NGT48 (and a many Niigata organizations, even public ones like the police) had a bunch of event partnerships with. Not least the Niigata National Cultural Festival, whose NGT48 appearance there had in fact been kept in a limbo until last for reasons.
    Are you by any chance misleadingly blaming it on Maho too, to justify a posteriori Kato sharing that Instastory with her e-friends for derision?
    This is just an open secret, known since long before that point, even. You think those blatant power interests should be left out of sight/consideration?
    Also, the one I was correcting in that post was you, for conveniently making things up. Don't try using it to your own advantage now.

    >the members the assaulters had tried to excuse themselves by naming
    Why do you keep using that wording compulsively, exactly? No, not even in the court papers do they claim it was an "excuse".
    They still affirm that the personal association with those 8 members is true, and that they were hanging out together in their apartments as they told.
    They also added to it that they did receive advices from other members, in order to have this "meeting" with Maho. Not that the plaintiff side tried ever so slightly to press on the matter in the rebuttal -- I thought they had safety at heart.
    This also ties in with the question of how Nishigata herself made any previous suggestions to these yakkais on going to Maho's residence (and for what), as was related on the October before the incident even. Matsumura in that conference just preferred not looking into it and play the same "dialogue" card.
    The only thing they concretely "took back" about the talk content was only by asserting that they rather got the private info of Maho from herself, and that anything related to Maho's room info inside the talk and who the thugs learned it from (Tano Ayaka) was a "play acting" between him and Maho to hide this "secret" from others (yes, seriously).
    Of course, their funny new narrative wouldn't have stood otherwise.

    >Even before she made stuff public, she was demanding the members the assaulters had tried to excuse themselves by naming be fired, and anyone else Etsuro found had consorted with fans. That was her condition for not breaking the story immediately.
    That was a promise Imamura made to Maho if anything, not the other way around. Not even any staff told otherwise in interviews, so don't invent things to make Maho out to be a blackmailer, please. It's disgraceful.

    >But management claim she'd moved out months earlier
    Murakumo still talked with the understanding Tano still lived there on the day of the assault, in the recording. As did Maho too.
    The AKS attorney went around claiming they would have submitted their contract records but as it turns out through multiple inspections at the courthouse they never did.
    It is even made more suspicious by the fact that what the AKS attorney tried to play up to be "rental papers from the defendant" turned out to be a cellphone photo of an unrelated explanatory pamphlet with no date, signature, personal seal stamps, or serial code. The rental agency was even different than the one which managed the building at the time.
    Another blatant example of one side scratching the other's back in that farce.
    For one, the members don't move in and out of their apartments all that easy at the drop of a hat, either. Past events really say otherwise, or else Maho would've sooner moved out and none of this shit would have happened.
    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1u7g0qYe8Dxw7UqR_Ttlz9XVC8F531uuvl_UV4qE962I/
    Funny how they couldn't even solve this simple question.

    >lots of vague words (e.g. つながる, which can mean anything from exchanging DMs to one night stands) thrown about
    It's the management that wanted to keep it vague on purpose, even lying that the research report said that "even exchanging greetings are included" in the definition of consorting to justify their immediate pardon. Other people used very certain words, kousai and tsukiau being two.
    How closer was the yakkai gang with the members, that they were reported having multiple rooms across multiple buildings where the members resided (Nishigata's too)?
    Start by asking for example what Hagiri was suspended for. I'd hate it if she got suspended just for a greeting, you know.
    Was there an internal management survey that had been performed by Imamura, before, as media told?
    We can also ask if the description of this meeting between the members is true. Yoshinari's words had been confirmed as such, for sure:
    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_0j11VC3zzNTwyhXDFaUU6kosP7SE35jCXr5R92pXdY/

    >Showroom clips yadda
    I liked your excuse where you tried to convince me that Tano didn't know what that yakkai get-together organized by one of the future assailants was, when she is the very one to even say while at it that she was "the first to have had the idea" for that day's party ("iidashippe"), going on to reference it times and times again afterwards.

    >If it had ever been just about the assault then it would never have blown up the way it did.
    Maybe it would have been more comfortable (in its warped way) and less morally challenging, at least for the likes of you, if predators were just pretadors coming from the outside, instead of being people with their fingers already deep in the group, and the other members, as they actually were.
    Then again, things wouldn't have happened in the first place, if it had been just predators coming from the outside.
    They wouldn't have had neither the motivation, nor the inside contacts to accomplish what they did.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2022
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  15. Reveen

    Reveen Under Girls

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    And we know from Maho's own words that a yakkai wota approached her regarding consorting about 2 years before the incident and she said no? And I seem to recall her commenting on showroom in early 2018 about girls breaking the "love ban" and succeeding as well? NGT seems like it was a pretty dysfunctional place well before the incident.
     
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  16. wlerin

    wlerin Next Girls

    Joined:
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    Yes, it's the police's discretion, but they don't just call people in for no reason. They call people in based on the testimony they receive, initially from the victim and the suspects. The statement I'm disputing, since you've already forgotten, is that "Maho hadn't pointed fingers at any members in particular by this point". It's quite beside the point whether she "did it all by herself". She had named names. She had pointed fingers, even if no one outside realised it yet.

    Same result for the other members.

    I never said they'd proved the claim either :p But Murakumo or whoever not realising she'd moved out could just mean they weren't communicating enough at the time.

    I'm not sure what you think in that document casts any doubt on the claim that Ayakani moved out? If anything it proves that both a) it was an unpleasant situation that members wanted to escape, and b) the exact same thing (men moving into a nearby apartment) had happened before. There's nothing in those clips about "permission", that's some bizarre idea you've manifested out of ダメ (which in context just means it's not gonna work out, i.e. she can't afford it). We already know from other leaks that member salaries were based on SSK, among other things. She hoped to rank up and with the resulting raise be able to move somewhere else. Without knowing anything about where Ayakani moved, or what arrangements she had to make, there's no way to judge how "easy" it was for her. (She did rank up that year though.)

    Nevertheless, I agree with your statements within regarding management's neglect of the member's housing situation. This would never have happened had they gotten them a proper dorm, or even invested in some basic security measures.

    He initially said "道端であいさつを交わす", exchanging greetings in the street. While "exchanging greetings" is downplaying it a bit, the very first example of "consorting" given in the report is the brief exchange Otsuka had with the third man when she came off the bus (onto the streetside). The same exchange the two attackers lied to Maho about later, telling her Otsuka had told them her return time, when all she'd done was confirm Maho had been on the bus with her.

    Kousai (交際) is far from "very certain" lol (although this is more the fault of Japanese than anyone's word choice). In fact the only place it occurs in the third party report is discussing potential ambiguity in the actual wording of the contractual "love ban" (although that mostly hinges on a different word). I don't know who else used it but there are far more peanut gallery commenters on this issue than there are people with actual knowledge so...
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2021
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  17. Cisalpine88

    Cisalpine88 Next Girls

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    >The statement I'm disputing yadda
    You can tell me once you find a victim's offense report or a statement report with police officers in which it's hinted how members were brought to the police solely on Maho's one-sided request (or especially by her doing it at a whim, or by intimidation against Imamura, as you have been both insinuating all along in fact).
    But since not even the management has access to any... And with the fact these thugs already brought on enough leads by themselves as it is (not only bringing up personal contacts, but even showing themselves having Kakao Talk and message communications with members to have them "come to explain", in front of the staff present and all, like it's all heard in the Murakumo audio)...
    Trying to figure out what kind of interrelationship these people had with these thugs, even in order to grasp the background picture, is a basic police's procedure duty, also, it has nothing to do with "pointing fingers". Questioning naturally extends to known close acquaintances of the suspects too.
    What bothers you is that it is a known "idol" who underwent police questioning.

    >But Murakumo or whoever not realising she'd moved out could just mean they weren't communicating enough at the time.
    Except she resided in the same exact building, do I need pointing out everything to you.
    That, coupled with how even the management can't decide on a date for when Tano moved out (1.5 years before the incident according to a Jan 19 Bunshun interview, 5 months before the incident according to Hayakawa, then one year before the incident according to the AKB Shinbun published after in Aug 19, all improbable), means the question is not even "Without knowing anything about where...", but "whether".
    Again, they couldn't even solve that simple thing, so it's no wonder they can't clear even things more complicated than that if it doesn't involve shifting the blame out.

    >with the resulting raise yadda
    Moving out or not was that year's Sousenkyo pledge in case you didn't get it: no pledge goal fulfilled, no go-ahead. The video at that certain point explains it even more clearly that's "because a pledge is a pledge", not a money thing.
    The full expression there is also してはダメ and it's a set phrase to use as a prohibition, it's a basic thing.
    Ask yourself instead why she needed to set that even as her pledge to get it done, and why so desperately in contrast to the inane shit other members did in the meantime, instead of getting into flights of fancy to defend panthom members.
    Pass.

    >He initially said "道端であいさつを交わす", exchanging greetings in the street.
    You don't need to tell me what he said, taking the thing out of the whole sentence to insist that it was a "honest mistake" doesn't cut it either because he wasn't referring to it in the context you are forcibly fitting it into.
    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1DAjqHsGSVCBxPxExmUS7lYkNBU6poWqqtZFBQJpK-1M/
    That part was an invention of his out of thin air, no matter how disingenuosly you try excusing it, sorry. He even admitted to it once called out, so be a man and don't defend a 58 year old like he's a kid. As usual, use your apologetics for someone who isn't the scum of the earth.

    >yadda yadda Otsuka had told them her return time, when all she's done yadda yadda
    Odd and unneeded apologetics, as if one action makes you more comfortable than the other, or they were even effectively mutually exclusive.
    The best you have is the management, like here at the end, quietly readjusting their first announcement to say that allegedly O. didn't give away the exact hour (duh) but indicated the time to them indirectly, moving on without ever denying.
    You have also conveniently forgot to add that, as per the third-party report, the thugs had also checked with O. if Maho wasn't coming home accompanied by another member living on the same building and floor (so they could pull off this stalker aggression by catching the moment Maho would be alone, something which the report indeed concludes was a determining factor; much tellingly, this same member was also the first Maho tried to contact for help afterwards) -- which O. also admittedly informed them on. So she caused harm either way you want to spin this, if not even more.

    And that reminds me: the greater issue with any such verbal communications as that is how after someone has tattled along something by voice privately and at close distance, whatever it was ever said, all the words are quickly gone with the wind, moreso if there's a mutual complicity. The moral is, in general, better off to always have recordable things recorded for later so that things would remain on, and cannot be reversed anymore. Like how they failed to do with that incoherent tale at the "trial", without reckoning with Maho, in fact.
    After all, even with the talk from the day of the incident being safely recorded, the management still tried through media to lie to the public, reversing roles, and warping facts about that even before, and it didn't become obvious to everyone until this got leaked to the public.

    >Kousai (交際) is far from "very certain"
    If you don't get what it means when in between different-sex persons even after the n-th news of celebrities relationship (or Bunshun articles, for that matter), then you can keep on playing silly.

    >I don't know who else used it
    Yes, I don't know either. Pretty easy to lull yourself in these forced equivocations while shutting out from your consideration the person who did the only straightforward talking through this.
    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gUs3aLh3tUXyw8nrQ0Q1u985Zkx7eYQ-fukRFUHoO_4/

    Regarding the tsukiau, too.
    Maybe we can also ask if the description, the criteria, and/or the results of this survey that the management privately had with the members, as outlined in this old article, were indeed true, and if there's some members who had something important to declare outside of Hagiri.
    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RvZSVvslAbo2JoKVCu-Xot2Vq9OvS9bQzeIfy1G6rGM
    After all, even the third-party report later pointed that "Following the incident in question, there have been several members who voluntarily confessed to having been consorting with fans before", so that should be the one. Not that I see another around after all.

    Far from it being Nakai, it's her that the management was making into a media scapegoat to save the others, during that time. Hence why Maho had to stress there was "currently active" members who were enjoying the close company of these thugs, the second time when the backstabbers in the management tried much stupidly to pull some similar shit on her with that farce trial.

    >there are many peanut gallery commenters on this issue
    Suda Akari and Yoshida Go were the top offenders in this, I agree, but you can do it in terms of apologetics and claim a rightful place in the trinity.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2021
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  18. bonjourmarlene

    bonjourmarlene Under Girls Wiki48 Editor

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    Didn't at least Marina live in the same building? It makes sense for the police to at least question all the members who lived in the building to see if anyone had seen or heard anything before or after the incident. Them being questioned initially doesn't necessarily have anything to do with Maho.
     
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  19. Cisalpine88

    Cisalpine88 Next Girls

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    Nishigata lived in another building, the twist however is that this happened to be also the building where these yakkais had their actual residence.
    From the third-party research report it's written that Maho came to know from the police officers at the Niigata Police Department that Kasai (and the rest of the gang too) was borrowing rooms in three other building complexes over Niigata, and one was the building where Nishigata (aka "C") resided too.
    In his Tweetcasts he further admitted to it (link).
    Although it looks also that Nishigata and the one who turned out to be Man #3 (one Sato Kaisei, the man repeatedly said to be dating with Hagiri, who also was reported as caught and arrested in the ≠ME stalking later on, and who even the third-party report states definitely as having "been meeting up with individual NGT members privately multiple times previously", just to get an idea of him...) were hanging out inside of Maho's own building at some time before the incident, at the very least (from the audio recordings, in an initial talk between Murakumo and Maho).
    That all ties in also with the question of how Nishigata herself made any previous suggestions to these yakkais regarding going to Maho's residence (and for what), as was related on the October before the incident even. But Matsumura in that conference just preferred not to look into it and play the same "dialogue" card.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2021
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  20. rayanami

    rayanami Kenkyuusei

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    oginoyuka
    Ok so now we'll see if it's really NGT is "full of bullies, or they just antis still mad about her sudden rise in SSK, so they leapt on this chance to start spreading old debunked crap and spew out more, often based on unrelated Inapooh tweets
     
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