1. Results for our 11th Annual Stage48 Member Ranking are being revealed! Click here to see it and check how your oshimen did! Updated daily.

NGT48 Assault Case

Discussion in 'General NGT48 Discussion' started by Cisalpine88, Jan 9, 2019.

  1. Dirkkun

    Dirkkun Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2014
    My post earlier was just me answering lunakitten with "Two groups of idol fans are arguing." I tried to make it as neutral as possible with flourishes highlighting the main points of both side, but I guess I my english writing skills are not up to par with my intents.

    "Don't spread conspiracy theories about members, don't harass members, let idols be idols." <- What am I misunderstanding?

    I thought I was being somewhat moderate. The extremists are at least like "All 48G should disband, only then will the girls be safe" vs. "Maho should be fired for ruining the career of other girls.", or worst.

    I have a vague recollection of seeing the SKE members being really happy when Yuasa became theater manager, probably from a documentary. This makes a lot of sense now after learning how allegedly toxic Imamura is.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Old Old x 2
  2. Reveen

    Reveen Upcoming Girls

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2013
    Location:
    Sunnyvale Trailer Park
    That particular "scandal" was one of the most ridiculous and frustrating things to occur in this fandom and on this thread in particular.

    (Incidentally, I'm not sure if anyone else noticed a video on Inapooh's twitter of (presumably him) mocking that showroom video of Maho which was posted in early January, anyway that's just an aside.)


    Anyway I wanted to go back to one of the best posts on this thread,

    I think this is an excellent summation of things. I was getting into HKT at the time around Tokyo Dome when 4 members were dismissed and one resigned and I remember what a nuclear bomb it was at the time. But HKT has stayed pretty scandal free since then, I think it impressed on members that contact with fans outside the bounds of HS and concerts/stages could lead to serious consequences for them.

    I think NGT management are miscalculating things, they might keep a couple of HS sellers (for a while) if they tough things out but it will slowly poison the group going forward. There will never be a feeling of trust if the boil isn't lanced.

    True. How many times has the phrase "saving for the SSK" been uttered on this forum? How many times has it been asserted that the March/April singles of the 48-groups has been negatively affected by people saving their money for election votes? SSK operates like a black hole, sucking in huge amounts of money, distorting everything around it for about 3 months before and a couple of months afterwards.

    It's one of the issues in this case that hasn't really been focused on is the potential of certain members in NGT benefitting in the SSK from associating with yakkai wota. Shouldn't idols stand for something more idealistic than this?

    As for NGT from here, I'd like to see a lot more principle and bit less "pragmatism".
     
    • Agree Agree x 14
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
  3. tuxedo_gin

    tuxedo_gin Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2016
    Location:
    Japan
    Oshimen:
    Onishi Momoka
    Unfortunately, capitalism has proven that greed will almost always outweigh morality. The management groups are all in it for the money - NGT's management is proving that the wellbeing of their group and girls is not as important to them as the money. I'd love to see them do the right thing in the end, but the fact that we are currently where we are, I just don't see how they get there from where they've dug themselves in.
     
    • Like x 4
    • Dislike x 1
    • Agree x 1
    • Winner x 1
    • Old x 1
  4. souchan48

    souchan48 Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2013
    Location:
    Oshimen: Amami Yuki
    Oshimen:
    Takahashi Minami
    not everyone is privileged and/or rich as you to get HS with Maho. Doesn't mean they care less about Maho.

    Think. Many people who are involved in such crime usually meet with their idols thru HS or meet-and-greet. Doesn't make them a greater person, do they?
     
    • Like Like x 7
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Old Old x 3
  5. Puni

    Puni Kenkyuusei Stage48 Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2013
    Location:
    Germany
    Oshimen:
    Kashiwagi Yuki
    Twitter:
    puni_2k
    I did.
    Friend of mine probably is the biggest foreign Mahohon fan on this stupid rock. He travels to JP for nearly every HS / 2-shot event and is active on twitter but hasn't an account here.

    Don't assume that it makes you a better fan just because you regularly click on 'Post Reply'...
     
    • Like x 12
    • Agree x 4
    • Winner x 3
    • Dislike x 1
    • Old x 1
  6. wetpantsu

    wetpantsu Rank 81-100 (Temporary Name)

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2017
    This thread is turning into a disaster. Can we please keep the conversation on Maho and the safety of all NGT girls and not turn into a wota dick-measuring contest?
     
    • Like x 8
    • Agree x 8
    • Dislike x 3
    • Winner x 2
    • Useful x 1
    • Old x 1
  7. Theworld

    Theworld Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2019
    This would make sense, if they didn't upgrade security with bunch of guard rails and tables and hired hundreds of new security personnel for each event since 2014, or move members to new dorm last month.

    I am really privileged working my tail off so I can live in JP.

    When did I ever say I or those guys that did the crime were better fans? I said Caring, and Caring can go from healthy to extremely unhealthy. Next time your boyfriend/girlfriend ask you why they didn't get anything for valentine/anniversary just tell them you care...

    way to move the goalpost. kind of obvious who I was referring to with my statement. action does speaker louder than words, I don't have the discipline to update these threads regularly like some of the folks here, as that is a real discipline and commitment
     
    • Dislike Dislike x 9
    • Like Like x 2
    • Old Old x 1
  8. parubably

    parubably Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2015
    here’s a new thread where people are talking about ayakani and gatanee’s treatment: http://akb48taimuzu.livedoor.biz/archives/54868681.html

    i’m glad people won’t shut up about it until we get an explanation, despite the matter dying down in general public.

    in addition to the previous following chart, i also noticed that kitarie doesn’t follow ayakani. not sure if that’s significant but it’s something to add to the thread.

    it’s sad how at the beginnings of the thread we were trying to dig things up and were like find the culprits and mahohon will be safe!! and now we’ve pretty much found the culprits (some somewhat confirmed, some unconfirmed) and still NOTHING is happening.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  9. nobodywil

    nobodywil Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2009
    Location:
    From the Islands to The Bay
    • Dislike Dislike x 3
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Old Old x 1
  10. Reveen

    Reveen Upcoming Girls

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2013
    Location:
    Sunnyvale Trailer Park
    • Dislike Dislike x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. FMecha

    FMecha Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2016
    Oshimen:
    Kashiwagi Yuki
    Twitter:
    FMecha_EXE
    Even if gun smuggling is not involved, inciting/calling riots is still a bad business.
     
  12. wlerin

    wlerin Rank 81-100 (Temporary Name)

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2012
    Oshimen:
    Mutou Tomu
    The first part that you didn't rephrase.

    She does though? Also the chart you mention is unreliable, it's based on the numbers from tw48.net but they often differ from the follow order recorded by twitter. For example, compare the order in which Hasegawa Rena followed Aramaki Misaki (荒巻美咲), Yabuki Nako (矢吹奈子), and Motomura Aoi (本村碧唯) on tw48 vs. on twitter (scroll to the very bottom, twitter lists follows by most recent first). They should be on either side of Miku but instead tw48 lists them near the end. I don't know what caused this anomaly but it's not the only one.

    Continuing with Hasegawa Rena's Twitter, everyone tw48 lists after Murashige Anna should be listed earlier. This dislocated group is in order between themselves, e.g. she followed Mirun before Aoi before Nako before Ayu etc. Up through Nishikawa Rei were all followed prior to Myao. Matsuoka Hana, Tanaka Natsumi and Okada Miku came later, but still before Ayakani and Gatanee were (re?)followed. Yumirin should be between Sakura and Naachan.

    Even besides these errors, tw48 numbering is misleading because it only includes member accounts, and sometimes there are vast numbers of non-member accounts in between two seemingly consecutive member follows. Rena's initial follows up through Miyazaki Miho were almost 100% members, with only four exceptions (NGT48 official twitter, BSN Radio, Ariola Japan, and this person). The whole section is sandwiched between batches of Produce48 trainees, which leads me to believe they were all followed around the same time.

    Then there's about 105~ accounts between Myao (51 on tw48) and Gatanee/Ayakani (63/64 on tw48), who are near the top of her following list and thus very recent. This lends credence to the rumour that she unfollowed them briefly in December.

    The same is not true for Oguma Tsugumi, whose twitter follow order is markedly different from that shown on tw48. She followed all NGT48 members before she began following anyone else, and furthermore she had followed Ayakani and Gatanee before following anyone in Team G.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
    • Dislike Dislike x 2
  13. Big Chungus

    Big Chungus Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2019
    Oshimen:
    Okabe Rin
    It is obviously the fault of capitalism. They make you believe it is about the money while in fact it should be about morality.

    - There should be boycott! Fire Nishigata and co! Will the group survive without one of it's money maker? Of course! It would only make more room for others to shine! It will hurt management where it counts! If it hurts them then it can only be good for the group.

    - Management needs to resign! Not just NGT but higher-ups in AKS. Just because they are good at making money that doesn't mean they should be leading. Will this be good for the brand? Of course! A bit of new blood can only be good.

    - Let's end SSK! I know it is one of the biggest reason AKB is what it is today, what sets them apart from other idol groups but they obviously don't need it. Fans getting a little breather, realizing they can spend their money on more important things is a good thing. Will this help our idols? Of course! It will be less stressful and unpopular members do not have to feel bad and force themselves to improve.

    People should realize that money is NOT what's making the whole idol world go around. Boycotting singles, firing popular money making members, ending SSK may result in smaller budget but the principles are more important. From a different point of view can it help our idols? Of course! Fewer groups, fewer members, less concerts, less TV shows, less appearances, less exposure this will all lead to less stress and fatigue.
    It is certain that revenue and popularity is not linked so any layoffs could only prove the scumminess of the management. Even if it happens would it be a good thing? Of course! Less competition means less burden and less stress to feel the need to view it as a war for fans. It might mean some idols cannot live out their dreams but it is for the better. It is a cruel business and a harsh world.


    Anyway let's have change! A joint brainstorming is needed to come up with some more ideas.
     
    • Dislike x 4
    • Creative x 3
    • Agree x 2
    • Winner x 1
    • Old x 1
  14. rka

    rka Upcoming Girls Stage48 Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2013
    Location:
    Shed-N-Breakfast
    Oshimen:
    Tanigawa Airi
    Twitter:
    rka_01
    i see what you did there.
     
  15. chrissirhc

    chrissirhc Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2016
    Oshimen:
    Okada Nana
    okay the fear mongering from brain washed fans is getting ridiculous.

    Not blindly supporting any and everything the corporation an idol you like is associated with isn't going to bring about the collapse of civilization.
     
    • Dislike Dislike x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  16. wlerin

    wlerin Rank 81-100 (Temporary Name)

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2012
    Oshimen:
    Mutou Tomu
    Neither is blindly opposing anything and everything vaguely associated with idols you dislike (for no good reason) going to save it from collapse.
     
    • Dislike Dislike x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. chrissirhc

    chrissirhc Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2016
    Oshimen:
    Okada Nana
    nobody ever said or implied it would.
    unlike the rhetoric that's being parroted that not blindly buying everything will cause aks to collapse and put the girls on the street
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
  18. wlerin

    wlerin Rank 81-100 (Temporary Name)

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2012
    Oshimen:
    Mutou Tomu
    Except that is pretty much what one side is asking for? That parody post is carrying what earlier posts on the last few pages said to their logical conclusion. "Don't talk about anything but the assault case." "Don't buy any AKS product." "Anyone who does is evil inhuman scum who disgusts me." "SSK is the problem, let's end it."

    If it's the "save civilization from collapse" you're specifically objecting to, that was your exaggeration not mine. However, the unfortunate fact is that many of the "systemic problems" some people want fixed aren't so much problems as they are the system itself. There is no way to "fix" them other than ending idols, and boycotting AKS until they are fixed "satisfactorily" will mean boycotting it until it dies.

    The aforementioned issues also aren't new. There've always been problematic elements in management, questionable sponsors, strife between members, and there've always, always been yakkai wota making life harder than it should be for the members. It seems like NGT had an exceptionally bad case of all four, plus maybe other things, but their problems aren't unique. And in the end, the members chose to be idols, and choose to stay idols. And we still chose to support them in spite of all the idiotic decisions management makes.

    For someone who doesn't understand parody you've done a good job of writing your own. No one is "blindly buying everything". But there very much are people demanding everyone (blindly) buy nothing.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
    • Dislike Dislike x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. Reveen

    Reveen Upcoming Girls

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2013
    Location:
    Sunnyvale Trailer Park
    Trying to portray the other side as extremists is a common but pretty low form of debate. While it's true there have been some " overly enthusiastic" posts recently I'm guessing those posters are younger and with a lesser grasp on the english language. Trying to paint a whole slew of people with a range of views with the most extreme viewpoint is not fair at all.

    (As regards the SSK, offhand I can only recall Cristafari and myself recently mentioning it and neither of us said to end it, but we did both mention the distorting effect of the SSK and the troubling effect of that, that isn't a remotely controversial opinion imo, it's been said many times on this forum and outside it.)

    I love idols, the qualities they stand for make it an amazing thing but letting the poison linger on has an even bigger chance of ruining NGT than dealing promptly with the issue imo.

    Cracking down on yakkai wota, cracking down on members dating, improving management, dealing with bullying issues, dealing with members who set up members they disagree with for "friendly conversations" with thugs, these things aren't going to destroy AKS or any other major idol group, saying that it would is really over-egging the pudding.


    So what your saying is, members should just have to shut up and put up with these things? So what your saying is, Maho should never have spoken up at all and ruined the idyllic paradise of NGT48? ....see I can indulge in low tactics too (Cathy Newman is a true inspiration!)

    Anyway, back to seriousness, you seem to be big on the "lets just accept it" pragmatism, so do you just want the pre January 8th status quo back or something? Or do you have a solution that actually involves dealing with rulebreaking by members? And also keeping Maho in the group?


    Consumer activism is a thing and boycotting can be an effective part of that. It can force individuals or companies to course correct whether it is the employer of the originator of the term Charles Boycott or for example the current dissatisfaction of gamers with Battlefield V leading to poor sales and stock losses for EA. Now EA is not going to go out of business (just as AKS wouldn't if they course correct) but you can bet EA will change to improve their product to get their customers back on side. And before anyone tries to put words in my mouth, I'm not advocating a total boycott of AKS or NGT, just saying that a selective one could be effective.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
    • Like x 9
    • Agree x 3
    • Dislike x 2
    • Winner x 2
    • Informative x 1
  20. Cisalpine88

    Cisalpine88 Upcoming Girls

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2009
    Location:
    Italy
    Twitter:
    speranzom
    Adding another one from some days earlier, but which to me sounds always relevant to the discussions at hand.

    ---
    Lest the NGT issue is faded from memory

    After it had spread rapidly like wildfire to become an issue of a national scale, as soon as the incident was originally brought to light, discussion about the physical assault case of NGT48's Yamaguchi Maho-san seems to be beginning to subside already, as news of the feats of tennis player Osaka Naomi and the national soccer team, as well as the group Arashi stopping their activities, come in.

    Actually, to put it more precisely, as incited by the reports from a part of the mass media, what can even be perceived here is a certain trend, where everything is now being brushed off as just "the same old" mindless commotion from wotas, between attacks on specific members and bashing of the management.
    Not only that, but as of late, it has come to a point where abusive remarks directed at the victim herself, Yamaguchi-san, are even being written, in what resembles a victim shaming of a sexual kind. All of this only brings one to fear that the issue might go on to become one step more serious and murkier than it already is.

    Speaking of news from the management, the theater shows are to be restarted by next February, kicking off with the Kenkyuusei stages, and the issue is to be clarified through a third party committee. But regrettably enough, the truth is that, from the standpoint of fans, one can't shake off the feeling that they are refusing to take the bull by the horns with that.

    This being the case, in this column we'd like to return once again to the mindset of the origins and give an examination over the "love ban", which is regarded to be the main cause of everything. After all, with regards to today's incident, there is a hypothesis that Yamaguchi-san had denounced to the management about the existence of members being in a relationship with fans, and that said members, resenting the action, ended up inciting the perpetrators (although this is still strictly speaking a hypothesis).

    While it is not yet known if this is the truth or not, the fact remains that when the management conducted an inquiry of their own, there were members who personally acknowledged to be consorting with fans, which means that one certain thing is that there exist a number of members who fail to observe such "love ban rule", at the very least.

    Opinions about said "love ban rule" are polarized: while one part of human rights organizations deems that to be a violation of human rights themselves, there are also many comments from fans pointing that, since this is a popularity-based business, it represents an obligation (or otherwise, a question of self-responsibility).
    But how are things exactly, in the end?

    For one thing, producer Akimoto Yasushi himself has told at times that there is a rule, while at times he said there is none, and so as a result of him wavering significantly in his stance, the gray zone only ended up getting wider. Regardless of that, what was originally declared back in the beginnings was that this was a question of "priority orders".

    Back in the origins, when AKB just saw the light of the day as a platform toward the entertainment world, things started off from an unusually reasonable stance, that is "If you have a strong resolution to want to succeed in the entertainment world, then please put priority in lessons and theater shows over private matters, including dating".
    From there, while AKB was now in the process of being raised to become a widely popular group, soon enough this love ban then turned into a way of catering to fans, being warped into a direction where those who violated it would either be fired, or otherwise pilloried and free to be turned into sacrifical victims for Internet lynching.

    From the perspective of members, those who see it as a question of priorities order are tying to maintain a moral conduct, out of their own sense of self-consciousness -- but for those who see it as a fan-service matter, there are also girls who have since switched to a mindset of "it's all fine as long as you don't get caught".

    As if it weren't enough, nowadays even original members have started to reveal on television and magazines about how "back in the day I used to have a boyfriend", which is causing the situation to heavily shift in that direction. In order to stop this domino effect, rather than debating about NGT alone, wouldn't it be necessary for all the groups in their entirety to come together on a single common intention once again, instead?

    So, why does the "love ban rule" exists for, again?
    (1) Around the early days, it was a way to put priorities in order, hoping one wouldn't lose sight of one's goals
    (2) It is to prevent that one's job as an idol would be affected by negative influences.
    (3) It is to maintain safety by preventing contact with potential criminal groups and socially threatening individuals.

    In particular, point 3 is an important and serious one: what is entrusted entirely to the self-consciousness and the ability power of each member is the dilemma of being given the opportunity to get in direct contact with a sheer number of people, while at the same time being asked to keep an adequate distance with said individuals.

    Even in the case of the NGT incident, word has it that the perpetrators were wotas with deep pockets who tended to spend hundreds of thousands of yen in a single handshake event session, and being this a system where popularity at handshake events directly determines one's own position and whether you are being pushed or neglected, members who find themselves in a dire situation end up relying on those people. Isn't it in a certain sense inevitable that, in doing so, it would give a chance for others to take advantage of said members?

    We have said it multiple times, but AKB has turned from the "platform" it was in the beginning into a "popular idol group", and from that it evolved into "super idols" sweeping across the whole country and Asia at large -- yet the management is only growing large in size, and they haven't managed to make any progress in terms of quality to match that.

    I, as a journalist, would like to see Akimoto Yasushi appear in public once again, right now, and let us hear his clearly-defined opinion on what he is intending to do about those aspects that have been left unsupervised. After realizing that at present time there's an increasing number of aspects which even Akimoto cannot personally do anything about, I'd like to hear from Akimoto himself what are his thoughts about it.

    If it's hard for him to do it in the role of the person in charge, he can at least try and consider that in the role of one adult man. I do want to hear his own honest considerations.

    ---
    Source: https://www.zaikei.co.jp/article/20190129/491574.html
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
    • Like Like x 10
    • Winner Winner x 6
    • Informative Informative x 2

Share This Page