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Okada Nana (Naachan) / 14th Generation

Discussion in 'AKB48 Graduated Members' started by Chaos48, Jul 15, 2012.

  1. Mimikkyu

    Mimikkyu Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2019
    Oshimen:
    48G itself.
    She can do everything she want, but if she want everyone to be happy with what she did, she had to graduate first.
    Promises only end when they are either fulfilled, lapsed, renounced or broken.
    Had she graduated before her scandal so that she could claim a glorious end to her idol career and to the promises she made as an idol?
    Had she publicly renounced her words before her scandal?
    If she did none of them, then she had just broken the promises she publicly made and clearly deserve the rage of many fans.
    People here are very forgiving for her. In Vietnam, most fans simply call her a hypocrite who broke her own promises.

    And "it" makes a lot of sense to the group and it's members, in my signature, I already explained why "it" makes sense and I don't think I need to repeat.
     
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  2. souchan48

    souchan48 Future Girls

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2013
    Location:
    Oshimen: Amami Yuki
    Oshimen:
    takahashiminami
    She is a grown woman therefore she should have understood fully that every decision came with consequences.

    I am not saying that her actions are wrong as a human.. but as an idol, there would be consequences and she should have known better as an adult to weigh the pros and cons before doing anything. NOT just on her, but also for the rest of group or people around her. This is what missing from many discussion.

    Everyone has the right to smoke, but given the pros and cons. ... that does not mean u have to smoke especially if u smoking may cause harm to others. If u want to smoke then perhaps ensure it reduces the harm for u and urself. If u want to have a boyfriend, be careful and do not hold hands in broad daylight.

    That is because we have rights, but we also have responsibilities. Many responsibilities are not written in black and white. They not have to be written into law for them to be implementable. There are responsibilities one must hold when one enters an idol group, knowing what type of idol group it is and harvesting the benefits from such idol group.

    Unfortunately we does not live in a perfect world

    Ps: it's easy to do a non-nuanced, nonchalant like "just let do her thing".. many of these came from twitter sjw-ish intl fans who probably never forge bonds with the concept of an idol anyway so... and they never spent any money so it is understandable. But to be on a high horse abt it is a different story
     
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  3. Berii

    Berii Member Stage48 Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2014
    Location:
    Somewhere.
    Oshimen:
    Omori Maho
    Apparently, this is what many people don't seem to completely understand: how many of you have EXACTLY the same mindset you had years ago?
    It's not the same as having an opinion about something you haven't experienced yet and then having to face the said situation.
     
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  4. solar

    solar Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2022
    Well, for the people who think the sexuality thing isn’t a big deal - yes, in the end, it’s not the fans’ business. But sexual minorities get so little representation in Japanese society that, whenever someone comes around representing them, people get invested in it being true. She was such a good representation for queer women (she’s cool and charismatic, can pull off being both masculine and feminine, is nice, etc) that it would be a shame if it weren’t true. They put their hopes into her.

    I think there’s different levels of reactions here. If someone is specifically invested in YuuNaa being a real couple, I think that’s delusional. Members don’t really get into relationships like that. It’s fanservice. So if someone is disappointed because of that, that’s not really reasonable.

    However, if someone is just invested in her being bisexual or queer in general, that makes more sense to me. So when I read people say “queerbaiting is good” I’m a bit confused.

    But I’m also a bit surprised that so many people’s immediate reaction is that dating a man somehow automatically makes her implied bisexuality invalid…like, it’s called being bisexual for a reason…

    Also, even though many things about an Idol’s persona are just crafted for business reasons, people still want the base traits of their persona to be true. Extra things on top of that can be embellished for the sake of creating a character, but as long as the fundamental parts of the persona have truth in reality, I think that’s better. So that’s another factor why people want it to be true - they want the person she presented to have at least some truth in reality. What do I think? Personally, I think she was generally being honest about everything.
     
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  5. Mimikkyu

    Mimikkyu Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2019
    Oshimen:
    48G itself.
    If you mean complaining about Nana, then it may include me.
    Generally I buy CDs, DVDs and sometimes other goods. For example, if you read my post history, you can see me own album DVDs and a large towel. I have no oshi at all so I just support the group.
    I live too far from Japan so I never attend a handshake event.
     
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  6. wlerin

    wlerin Next Girls

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2012
    Oshimen:
    Taniguchi Megu
    Given how they are running it, it's not really "fair" with her included either, but that would have been true to a lesser extent before the scandal too.

    That's a problem with the event organisers though, not Naachan.
     
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  7. minaeshi

    minaeshi Next Girls

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2014
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Oshimen:
    Morita Hikaru
    Twitter:
    minaeshit
    AS SHE SHOULD
     
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  8. gvstavvss

    gvstavvss Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2022
    The concept of an idol isn't static, it can change and it will change naturally. No one can say Yamaguchi Momoe or Nakamori Akina weren't idols, they totally were, yet they were an entirely different type of idol compared to AKB. The idol industry was changed by AKB, but its system has already become obsolete in the industry (and this is not related to dating ban specifically). This is bound to happen naturally, that's why AKB will die if it stays static. Take Nogizaka46 for example, yes they have dating ban - enforced by fans - and handshake events but that's NOT what makes them successful, they don't have the concept of 'idols you can meet' and members stop taking part on handshake events after a while (something unthinkable for 48G, Yukirin is still taking part of that). So they already represent a change from AKB, the same way AKB was different from Momusu, Momusu was different from Onyanko, Onyanko was different from solo kayokyoku idols and so on... Nogizaka concept will also become obsolete with time and it will be substituted by newer idols.

    My point here is, you can't expect fans to stay the same forever. Okada's followers on Twitter are increasing since her scandal, most people (Japanese fans mostly) are supporting her and asking her to cancel her graduation (something she won't do due to her serious character, which is genuine, she'll commit to what she has already said). Yes there are some crazy ones like that guy on Twitter that destroyed her goods but, to be honest, he's the only one I saw and I didn't see anyone commenting on any other such case. Other hit tweets are made by non-AKB fans (mostly Nogizaka fans, but there's also fans of other groups completely unrelated to Akimoto Yasushi) that have very few to none AKB mention on their profiles, not to mention the alarmists on news outlets and those creeps on 2ch (that are always talking shit about idols regardless if a scandal happened or not). The fans have already changed. The group has already changed. Even if the old men at management are afraid of changing and are complete cowards, they have realised this already and it's evident with the recent single when they selected a member that's popular on SNS and has much more female than male fans to be the centre, even if she sells poorly on handshake/online talk events.

    We form bonds, just different one from old fans. The concept of idol is always changing whether you like it or not.

    This is completely off topic, but I find Sakurazaka46's fans, both Japanese and international, a lot better than AKB and Nogizaka wotas. Not surprisingly, they have a lot more teenagers as part of the fanbase so I can relate with them better. Older fans can probably relate with AKB better, so it's understandable
     
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  9. souchan48

    souchan48 Future Girls

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2013
    Location:
    Oshimen: Amami Yuki
    Oshimen:
    takahashiminami
    Idk how relevant is an increase in follower though. We shall see.

    Plus, the amount of hatred might have subsided but there are equally number of positive and negative ones.

    Noone says the concept of idol has not changed. Yeah it has changed. Female idol has now been replaced by the rise of new type of idol: powerful singer and vocaloid artists. In fact I was the first to point it out that idols u can relate to are gaining tractions.

    But does it mean anything? Certainly akb demographic fans cannot be compared to those fans coz they are exactly paying for different things. The currency is different. The responsibility is different. It is more important for ado, yonezu kenshi to produce higher quality music and better vocal ability than connect to their fans. It is important for kpop idols to balance ability, visual and fanservice. In akb48 to be exact, whose even the best singing ability cannot compete, personability and parasocial relationship are the currency. You may change the tides but that as long the current wave is on, naachan still has the responsibility not to break the wave

    Also i have also mentioned about the importance of purchasing power. Our opinion tbh does not matter compared to the large spender.
     
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  10. gvstavvss

    gvstavvss Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2022
    I don't think the increase in her followers is relevant, but it's still an increase. Of course, many have unfollowed her, but for her to still gain more followers in spite of the scandal is still a win I think. We live in a world where money talks and that's okay (actually it's not, but that would enter a totally different topic not even related to idols and stuff that should not be discussed here), I just wonder if there's a way to please both parties without harming the idols involved. I forgot to emphasise on my post that AKB was created with this very concept of creating parasocial relationships, but looking at other idols groups (that aren't Akimoto ones or WACK), it could be a lot worse.

    Still, I don't want to see AKB die, just overall sad for how people are reacting to Naachan's case when hers isn't even the worst AKB had on its history, yet it was probably one of the greatest PR disaster. People on this thread are way more "violent" (including me sometimes, but you can't stay peaceful when the atmosphere itself is violent) than the Japanese fans on social media.
     
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  11. souchan48

    souchan48 Future Girls

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2013
    Location:
    Oshimen: Amami Yuki
    Oshimen:
    takahashiminami
    Have u ever read akb matome? U may want to check them out...u are wrong to say that this forum is more aggressive lol. Way off the mark
     
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  12. BadIceCream

    BadIceCream Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Oshimen:
    Sugai-sama
    I think that's because some people genuinely believed (or rather, misremembered) she was gay, not bi. At least that's what I got from the most of the replies you seem to be hinting at. I also remember people even discussed when she came out years ago that she could possibly be claiming "sex didn't matter" despite actually being gay to keep the delusional male fans who would otherwise lose interest, since her being gay would ruin their fantasy of having a "chance", and the backlash could have been greater if she claimed she only liked women. So it's probably a subconscious misconception rather than deliberate "invalidation" for some.

    While I agree with what you said about people wanting representation, it is a risky thing, as you can see with her case. People use "slip-ups" or experiences of certain individuals to stereotype/generalize whole sets of people. You also run the risk of being disappointed or lied to by your role model. That is why I personally don't get too invested/attached if someone apparently has something in common with me because that thing could stop being common one day or was never common at all. Or that was the only thing in common, in which case it's obvious why fixating on that is useless or even wrong. Or I just don't feel representated anymore (if you're gay, you probably don't feel represented by a het relationship, for example).
     
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  13. solar

    solar Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2022
    To be clear, fanservice is probably the farthest thing from representation. You’re right there. The thing is, she had talked about her identity before in a way that was specifically representative, and the way she presented herself with the wide range of styles was interesting. During the period where she basically styled herself like a man, is that really appealing to male fans? I actually have no idea, but I doubt it. Maybe that was a business marketing decision to appeal try to get an extended female fan base, but I don’t think men who traditionally like lesbian content want that.

    I don’t think AKB as an organization ever focused on her sexuality for the purposes of representation. That’s just not the motive of Japanese companies. But I think a portion of fans specifically looked past the fan service and identified with her. (yes, a good portion of those are still gay tumblr users, but I think a portion of female Japanese fans too…)

    Also, I get the feeling she wanted to graduate before all of this went down. That probably would have been better.


    These are all good points, especially because she said she liked women more. That’s the danger when people read into things, I suppose.
    I think it’s a situation where she also wasn’t really allowed to express the aspects of her sexuality that liked men, since the purity idol culture discouraged it. So fans ended up having a skewed view.

    You also make a good point that relying on one person to be representative is risky, since it’s a big burden for one person whose situation may change. A gay person probably doesn’t feel represented by a bi person in a straight relationship…but I think bisexual people get it hard from all sides typically.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2022
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  14. gvstavvss

    gvstavvss Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2022
    To be very honest, no. I find it too old, why can't it look a bit more smooth? But yeah I can guess what they are talking about on these sites. I only visit them when there's Nogizaka's senbatsu leaks.

    Maybe it really hasn't. But Naachan did raise awareness of LGBT+ issues in Japan through her 755 and SHOWROOM, so she was beloved by this community as well, so they can see her as queer representation.
     
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  15. BadIceCream

    BadIceCream Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Oshimen:
    Sugai-sama
    Also, for people saying her views can change, of course, they can. But, please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, the reason she's getting attacked for the SSK thing and subsequent statements (including very recent ones) about being a pure, serious idol seems to be because she never gradually backtracked, apologized (for the Riripon arc) or openly supported other members made to leave for dating, it was only after she found herself dating and was caught, right? If not, then I think the backlash now would have been exponentially less.

    Yep, I believe Naachan felt heavily pressurised by these skewed expectations.
    Tbh, that goes for all subgroups of the community haha. On the bright side, though, society stops pestering them if they enter het relationships or marry the opposite sex, which is not an option for many.
     
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  16. gvstavvss

    gvstavvss Member

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    Jan 1, 2022
    The thing is people are reading her SSK speech really wrong. She never directed her comment towards Riripon nor did she shaded her in any way. Also, she supported Mako and Miki in their scandals and was also by Moeka's side during her """"scandal"""". She may not have done it the most open way, but she was by their side.
     
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  17. solar

    solar Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2022
    This is another great point that I forgot to mention, but is arguably the most important point. In fan Q&As on various platforms, LGBT people specifically went to her for advice, and she was very supportive to all of them. This makes it very clear that the fans didn’t see fanservice as the point, they specifically saw her as representation to the point where they sought her guidance.
     
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  18. BadIceCream

    BadIceCream Member

    Joined:
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    Sugai-sama
    Well, sure, she did not shade Riripon the way Juri did but people did interpret it as shade nevertheless because she mentioned "members getting into scandals, causing problems, making their way up by using those scandals as stories and topics" and she "thought it was fine since everyone being serious would be boring but it's something that should definitely not be copied". I think it's safe to assume she was talking about Riripon's speech (there's no way she could have explicitly named her, not even Juri did that afaik) so I don't think people are reading her speech wrong. Some even thought it was shade at Sasshi although I highly doubt she meant to do that. The SSK speech did unfortunately have a stronger impact than the subtle support for other members caught dating later.

    I personally couldn't care less about her statements or scandal, I liked Naachan as an idol because she was a good vocalist so it's sad AKB lost one of their better singers.

    EDIT: I'm not sure what the "disagree" is for, since I linked the speech excerpt and provided a pretty accurate translation...
    EDIT 2: It's removed LOL
     
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  19. souchan48

    souchan48 Future Girls

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2013
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    Oshimen: Amami Yuki
    Oshimen:
    takahashiminami
    So when she made her speech, it was coincidental that it was right after Riripon's declaration?
    And that it was coincidental that Juri also spoke abt it? How big are the possibilities that three incident (riripon's, her remarks, and juri's remarks) happened during one ocassion without any 'triggers'?

    That is even more cowardice if u deny that her speech was about ririka. At least own it like Naachan did and even better like Juri. Intl fans kinda blasted Juri's speech but i like how she didnt try so diplomatic and straight to the point. Naachan's sspeech was truly diplomatic and it is hard to see where she truly stands but ofc it was abt riripon's scandal. (Despite being diplomatic, it is ironic that Naachan's speech also dissed Sasshi in a way lol)

    How did she stand by Moeka's scandal? Asking an honest question
     
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  20. gvstavvss

    gvstavvss Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2022
    I mean, she was triggered by Riripon's announcement, there's no way she would come with that out of nowhere, but I can't see how she was trying to antagonise Riripon in any way. I can see it more like a personal commitment due to her role as "leader" during this time. I don't think she ever changed her mind on the speech subject, even now. If management really tried to make her stay, then she can't be blamed. I honestly thought she was going to graduate soon since she announced she was cancelling her concurrent position in STU and her saying she wanted to focus on her solo career. Some will say she was a hypocrite and I can understand this, so I won't argue anymore.

    Not necessarily stand by Moeka's case but by Moeka as a person. She was clearly showing her support for her. Also, she continued to say good stuff about Moeka even after she graduated, complimenting her on SHOWROOM livestreams and such. Last year she was really excited that she could have the possibility to collab with Moeka when she signed with avex (Moeka was briefly signed to avex during this time but then disappeared).
     
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