....

There should be both AKB48 and AKB48-Group singles. The former may (probably will) sell much more poorly, but... so? It's so much harder for AKB48 members (who aren't in Team 8) to build up a fanbase or get recognised these days without it. Shoving a few in the back row of a mega-senbatsu doesn't help. If management does not do something to fix this, we are only going to see more graduations, and short of bi-yearly auditions (who would apply?) AKB48 will drop way below 48 members. Can the group system survive if the mother group is all but dead?

It's technically already happened if you don't count research students.



A compromise, but not imho an ideal one, is to limit the sister group reps to 1 per group, *and* make them fresh faces--the next gen hopefuls of their respective groups, instead of replacement aces brought in because AKB never built anymore of its own.

 

Oh really? Well lets just look at that eh? AKB members get to live in Tokyo, the media capital of Japan. If they're called for a job they don't have to fly all the way from Fukuoka for example and fly back, they get to have more free time because they don't have to travel all the time and they can occasionally see their friends and family...

And there's option 5: Make AKB members do sister group handshake events. Then we'd see how popular the AKB members are when they have to do the same amount of work as SG members.

 

Well... the girls who aren't from AKB48 get to do a lot more works - since they are the biggest and most influential idols in their area. Those in Niigata and Setouchi get even more chances, since the groups have many tie-ins with official prefectural offices.
In addition to having their own group's singles, they get to appear in AKB48's singles - both on B-sides and A-sides, and so on. They appear on Music Shows and variety shows twice as much - both with their own group, and with AKB48 - this means they have double the chances to get noticed by fans and other people in the media.
Most of those members who are in sister groups actually get to see their families a lot - they live in their city, after all. Not to mention that they have trips to Tokyo, the media capital of Japan frequently.
In addition to that, their managements have less to lose since they don't have to maintain any streak, so they have a better chance if they are a less popular member.

 

Hey! Everyone who dream only AKB single release. You must determine for yourself the priority: 1)AKB48 like brand or 2)AKB48 - the young members that you support!
1) If #1 you I just don't understand how collapse of sales by at least min 60% can help AKB48 like old, strong, stable brand save their level, position in Japan... 1mln-1mln-BANG! 300k just explain me how the drop in sales and the loss of reputation (status) will help? They may release first new single like new group, not "AKB48" brand!
2) If #2... OK you just support your oshimen

For me AKB48 now it's just brand. And I LOVE and support only this brand! So for me it doesn't matter, even if in AKB48-Single is not a single lol participant from AKB(original members). For example I love SakamichiAKB(except Jurina, Kojimako, Okada, Mion and Oguri. I prefer Mahohon, Moe, Hayaski, Katorena and Ota Yuuri ) more than any youngAKBonlysembatsu! and for me of course for example Ikoma has more important place in AKB than 80-90% original AKB members from 10-16gen, draft and etc.

ALSO! You can't release "AKB48" and "AKB48G" singles! it's important for Oricon, for total sales, for "AKB48" status! why? Hevy rotation is "AKB48" release or "AKB48G" release? Beginner? Aitakatta? I think "AKB48", not "AKB48G"! It's mean you just kill "AKB48" brand, status, lvl!

and for SG - separate is GOOD! for AKB - NO! but AKB48 is main..

AKB girls have MORE JOBS (not just regional radio, I mean more... Big work), but they are working less. They have more chance to stand popular, because "AKB48" brand attract a lot of attention, SG NOT! yes AKB48 members have less chance to get PUSH than SG Ace-Centers push and only! but you must see maaany popular members from SG who didn't get any push in AKB48, but they are worked for AKB more than any originalAKB members! but mngmnt push AKB48 members, even more of them do less than some SG members. Poor SG members... also Riripon said that AKB48 members get paid more

O M G I think about it only now, but seriously, girls form SG looks like migrants!!!! They work more, but they are paid less. Of course they steal jobs, places in kindergartens, schools. They use benefits of medical services and other privileges. And every time when someone is tired of standing in line to a doctor, can not give the child to a kindergarten, lose their jobs, the local population begins to blame all migrants. Of course, when the problems begin, the migrants are also always guilty. And if migrants achieve a lot, of course, they deprived the local population opportunities.

STS, stop flooding the thread. If you want to add more to your post, then go back and edit it. Otherwise you must wait for someone else to post before you respond again

 

I actually blame more on the dramas which soak up like a great portion of their time...

And screw the 1mill title, its meaningless when the group is not even purely achieved by their own group members. As for kennins, its k for them to take part because they are just doing what the title asked for, or else just cancel the damn system to stop confusion.

AKB singles compared to SG singles sales is like national team vs regional teams.

Why do this when there is option 2 hahaha

Just let AKB members be in their own single then we will see how popular they are by themselves.

 

Let's call it AKB0048

 

Believe it or not, I was talking about this exact idea to a friend of mine some days ago in private.

Spoiler: Private Conversation Jul 6

It's not that I don't understand them, but I really don't know how to solve the problem of the Tokyo girls.
The "AKB48" that people outside the fandom see the group is the AKB48G.
It doesn't matter if they are from Tokyo, SG or Team 8.
So, to compete as a music artist in the entertainment market, they should keep the singles with "AKB48" label using SGs.
To general public, "AKB48" is the group with Mayuyu, Yukirin AND Sasshi, Sayanee, etc
BUT
I agree the AKB48 girls in Tokyo (and Team 8) should have the same opportunities as SG, releasing CDs with AKB-only girls with team songs, etc.
But it can't be done with in the "AKB48" label. This label must be used as it is now.
An utopic idea is to create another label, as "AKB-only", "AKB Tokyo", something like this
Of course it wouldn't sell millions
just some hundread thousands as SGs

 

I went ahead and thought of a list of pure AKB members that should be boosted in the possible AKB single's senbatsu:

Spoiler: 16 nin senbatsu

A: Yokoyama Yui, Taniguchi Megu, Iriyama Anna, Hiwatashi Yui

K: Mukaichi Mion, Mutou Tomu, Ichikawa Manami

B: Kashiwagi Yuki, Kato Rena, Fukuoka Seina, Goto Moe

4: Okada Nana, Kojima Mako, Takahashi Juri, Murayama Yuiri, Komiyama Haruka

Spoiler: Eitos...

8: We can probably never settle the debate of Eito's status within AKB (SG or not). Both sides of the coin have their points. But let's just say they are part of the team structure for now, but in the AKB single they will get 2 types East/West instead of a member getting a seat in Side-A's. And I would make this a permanent rule. Unless they get fully transferred. I'm looking at you yuiyui.

The single will look like this:

Type A - 16nin senbatsu song
Type B - Team A song

Spoiler: Member list

Iriyama Anna, Oya Shizuka, Kojima Natsuki, Sasaki Yukari, Shiroma Miru, Takita Kayoko, Taniguchi Megu, Nakanishi Chiyori, Hiwatashi Yui, Miyazaki Miho, Miyawaki Sakura, Yamada Nanami, Yokoyama Yui (13)

Type C - Team K song

Spoiler: Member list

Abe Maria, Ichikawa Manami, Kodama Haruka, Shinozaki Ayana, Shimoguchi Hinana, Tano Yuuka, Nakano Ikumi, Fujita Nana, Minegishi Minami, Mukaichi Mion, Mutou Tomu, Mogi Shinobu, Yumoto Ami (13) *Shimada Haruka grad

Type D - Team B song

Spoiler: Member list

Kashiwagi Yuki, Kato Rena, Goto Moe, Sakaguchi Nagisa, Takeuchi Miyu, Tatsuya Makiho, Fukuoka Seina, Ma Chia-Ling, Yabuki Nako (9) *Kizaki Yuria, Tanabe Miku, Watanabe Mayu grad

Type E - Team 4 song

Spoiler: Member list

Iino Miyabi, Iwatate Saho, Okawa Rio, Omori Miyuu, Okada Nana, Kawamoto Saya, Kitagawa Ryoha, Kitazawa Saki, Kojima Mako, Komiyama Haruka, Sato Kiara, Shibuya Nagisa, Takahashi Juri, Tomonaga Mio, Nozawa Rena, Murayama Yuiri (16)

Type F - Eito East
Type G - Eito West
Theater - Team KKS song

Spoiler: Member list

Kubo Satone, Nishikawa Rei, Yamabe Ayu, Chiba Erii, Asai Nanami, Inagaki Kaori, Umemoto Izumi, Kurosu Haruka, Sato Minami, Shoji Nagisa, Suzuki Kurumi, Taguchi Manaka, Taya Misaki, Nagatomo Ayami, Harima Nanami, Honma Mai, Maeda Ayaka, Michieda Saki, Muto Orin, Yasuda Kana, Yamauchi Mizuki, Yamane Suzuha (22) *Nomura Nao grad

Spoiler: Notes

*If anything keep this format except for SSK single where they can do crazy stuff like collaboration with 46 or SG mash ups. Go ham.

**Sometimes Eito's can have just one type which is a Team song.

***Kennin support is fine with me cuz they can boost sales practically speaking. But if I were an extreme AKB purist I would say cancel the confusing useless system.

Is this fair? Will you purchase this? Can it make 1 mill sales or 500k at least?

 

The moment they let Jurina centering AKB Single, I think that's the starting point where they realized they kinda need SG, especially now that SGs are also joining AKB HS too boost the sales. Like I said in AKB 49th single, there should be one single in a year where AKB members (including Kennins) are senbatsu and let the SG play in the coupling (ala SS), just so there's a justification for their HS participation. Dumping SG in couplings won't really affect the sales of sister groups participating, if Sayanee's godly HS sales stays strong despite having a complete non participation in 49th single is any indication.

The last time we have a non SSK 16nin senbatsu was Kuchibiru ni Be My Baby where there were 6 SG members. That's quite a lot spot to promote new or semi popular AKB members, c'mon once in a year (and that still includes SG Couplings Party) won't hurt that much.

 

It would probably sell about as well as a sister group debut single. However, if the song is actually good for once--maybe they can pull in some non-wota buyers.

Regarding the senbatsus, better to include the draft kenkyuusei with their teams, and make the KKS song 16th gen only. Also, besides Manami the A-side senbatsu is a little too safe. Maybe that's fine for the first attempt though.

And, Type G ??? They've had singles with 4 B-sides before haven't they? It's not like they're running out of space on the physical discs.

Or AKB048...

 

Yes just treat it as a first attempt AKB revitalize plan

Selling at the level of sister group debut single is satisfactory to me. But then I do believe in the fan base of AKB purists will love it. Of course, if the songs are good then practically any combination can sell lol

Regarding draft kks, I was debating myself on this. But sure I'm open to that opinion as well.

Cuz I do consider promoting one young gen at a time is a safer move. (Plus those are the actually the top 16 AKB members we have right now except Manami which is a personal push, insert whoever girl you think that deserves it is fine with me). So the plan is just wait until the older members step down and keep inserting the young gens in future singles to succeed their spots. This way the group can actually have a better transition instead of the huge void created by the management we have now.

Yeah...in my side note I did mention Team 8 can just get one type. No biggie.

What I am more concerned though is if this is fair or not to fans and members?

 

Yes. Especially after other idol agencies have already followed suit. Thanks to 48G, you're now getting things like the Arc Jewel Shuffle of 2016, 3 members of CG getting transferred, Baseball Girls joining Nijicon Family, and Fudanjuku's collab song with The Hoopers.

 

We can just call them 48Group ( pronounce Group with stressing of the rooou and end with a loud P )

This way we can play around with the 47 parts of Japan & 48th being the ulti form .

 

I'd say go nuclear.

Seperate all 48g. Let AKB sales tank and hope SG swing upwards again.

Pro. SG member don't have to HS for AKB, Senbatsu of your group is relevant again. Being a theather member is not torture anymore.
Con. Million sales goodbye. Loss of Super Senbatsu -> AKB Brand takes hit.

or kill SG releases and compress them into only AKB48 releases.
As in each single has 20-25 types. So SG still get their own music but it is released under the AKB banner.

Pro. Keep Super Senbatsu. Keep/Increase Sales. AKB brand keeps being alive. ( Anything 48 = AKB. Might as well make it a reality)
Con. SG lose independence.

This is really simplified but shit like that would be exciting but not really popular. (Option 2 )

 

I chose "other". My opinion is that there should be some sister group members in AKB releases, but not as many as there currently are.

Please remember that the reason for the sister groups' existence is to bring the AKB theater experience to diverse regions of Japan. They are not separate things but rather one singular group scattered across the country.

With that being said, AKB - as the original and central, flagship group, situated as it is in Japan's capital city and being the group most acknowledged by the general public - has some responsibility to promote its sister groups. But AKB also needs to be able to promote its own members, or else there won't be a flagship anymore. With most of the core recognizable members of AKB graduating or already graduated, AKB is in dire straits to start producing new members who are recognizable to the public and mass media. I suspect that this isn't as much of a problem for AKB as you might think; management can, and does, promote a girl to stardom within one or two single cycles. They have a lot of business tricks up their sleeves and they know how to build an idol. The catch is that she more or less has to be a member promoted within AKB singles.

That's the reason why sister group members are included in AKB theater shows as kennin members and inserted into AKB singles. Though I said the sister groups are not separate from AKB, the fact of the matter is that when it comes to mass media, Tokyo is the heart of everything and therefore AKB - even if it were failing compared to its other groups - would get the most attention by promotional organizations. Similarly, sister group members who are promoted within AKB get their faces plastered all over Tokyo, the country's most populated hub. So it should be no surprise to anyone who understands this that management is hell-bent on promoting the sister groups by inserting them into AKB.

I think the problem comes from how they choose to do it: quantity over quality. Instead of, say, choosing one girl to push from each sister group each cycle and making her that quarter's representative of her group and home region, something worthy of attention rather than one face in a crowd of faces, management chooses up to three per group and often doesn't invest anything significant beyond that in growing those members' popularity. Worse, they insist on over-using the most iconic faces of the sister groups (Sasshi, Sayanee, Jurina) rather than putting less popular members in those slots and forcing the fans and public to momentarily take their attention off of girls who are already extremely popular. Worst of all, the two to three slots that are taken up by each sister group for random pushes and overly-popular members often totals so many that AKB only has a few representatives of its own in its own singles, and little to no room to insert any new blood.

So to conclude, I don't think sister group members or kennins being inserted into AKB is wrong and I don't think all of those notions should be purged. I do think that sister groups need the publicity and promotion AKB gives them. But I also feel that sister groups members are pushed too much and too randomly in AKB releases. There should be fewer of them, and the quality of the push should be paid more attention to. Management would do well to set up some kind of program for fans and public alike that lets the sister group push du jour promote herself as well as her own group and its area. At the very least, they should do something extra to ensure that the precious slots they use to push sister group members in AKB singles are not going to waste. The method up until now has been "good enough" to keep the group afloat, but it's a bit sad that they seem to have stopped striving for better solutions and seem to have given up on AKB itself almost entirely.

 

The second option is just suicide for the company, how are they supposed to sustain the same amount of girls with no sister group sales. Plus if they are releasing all under a single, there is no way they will be invited to promote all sister group songs, only the senbatsu will be promoted and the group will tank even more.

 

chose 'other'
Basically i don't have a huge problem with sister groups members joining senbatsu. Promoting sister groups isn't inherently a bad thing.

However I think there should a limit to it. Currently AKB has 6 JP sister groups (counting Team 8 as a separate group). If we only include 2 from each that's already 12 spots taken.
The consequence of this is that you have only 4 slots for AKB members left.

Let's look a some numbers to see if that is too exaggerated (not including SSK singles for obvious reasons):
- Kuchibiru ni...: 6 / 16
- Kimi wa Melody: 6 / 21-4 (welp graduates)
- Tsubasa wa Iranai: 13 / 32
- High Tension: 8 / 22
- Shoot Sign: 16 / 32
- Negaigoto...: 19 / 35

Well it seems so. It looks like that they inflate the number of senbatsu spots so that they can include a passable number of AKB girls + the sisters groups' Miss Popular and their respective flavor of the month.
This certainly is one way of handling this problem but they run the risk of making the whole senbatsu thing pointless if everybody and their mom can get it.

Also the number of sister groups doesn't seem to decrease anytime soon, so it may even get worse.

Management clearly has a dilemma here concerning their priorities. Help promoting the sister groups (and eventually their members) or the AKB girls. The problem is finding a proper balance.
One attempt would be to limit the number of senbatsu spots that can be used by sister group members.
Now this also has the issue that the sister groups will only put their respective ace into senbatsu and fail to promote their next generation. But without a limit this problem would not disappear, it would only shift to AKB.
Another issue is if you want to distribute the slots evenly among the groups or not. Both have their pros and cons. Obviously even distribution is the fairest method but (like above) you run the risk of only the ace being there. But I also can't see how something like High Tension is fair where every sister group had 1 representative except HKT that had 5.

But I think there is another problem hidding behind this which is how many chances of exposure a member (regardless of sister group or not) can get.
Back in the 'good old days' we had a senbatsu song and team songs. So even if a members wasn't picked for senbatsu she had a place in the single. Now with management silently saying goodbye to this concept some girls are completely left out.
More so we now have the situation that some girls (especially the already popular ones) have a front row position in multiple songs within one release, and in the case of sister group members among multiple releases, and other members have nothing.

Personally I don't think it is fair that a sister group member can center an AKB single, also have a spot in a coupling song and be front row in her own groups releases.

So this is my proposal to 'fix' these problems. I don't claim that this is the only solution and that it doesn't have any risks or problems of its own:

• For AKB members: If you are in senbatsu that's great for you but you should not have a spot in any coupling song (maybe with the exception of graduation songs). You already have your place in the spotlight you don't need another one.
• For sister group members: You should not be center for an AKB single. If you want to center something do so in your own group or transfer to AKB. Also if you are in AKB senbatsu you are out of senbatsu for your groups next release (however you can be in a coupling song)

I agree that this seems to be overly strict but it all is a matter of balance between promoting AKB members, sister groups and even sister group members and give everyone a place within the group.

 

Out of all the proposals to "fix" the system I've read here, I like this one the best. I disagree on your first point to an extent: what if a new gen push akb girl is back row senbatsu? If she isnt put on a coupling song she might not stand out & people might call her a failed push (esp in cases with 32nin senbatsu). Plus, it limits things like Renacchizu that are basically chosen on the whim of someone else. I'd say limit her ability to center a coupling song maybe.

I was going to propose something similar to your second point, although not following up with a sister group senbatsu appearance kind of defeats the purpose of pushing a girl by putting her in akb senbatsu. Definitely agree with not allowing SG members to center AKB singles. I'd even extend that to kennin. I propose giving kennin the choice of being eligible for either center senbatsu positions in AKB or in her sister group but not both. Obviously this doesn't apply to SSK or Janken.

 

It depends a bit what strategy 48G management has with AKB singles. Do they want to promote a single member, the group or sister groups? I have the impression that the >20 member lineups are a result of them trying to do all at once.

You certainly have a point there if you say that a backrow senbatsu member doesn't get very much out of it career wise. It's basically center of bust. But also putting her into a coupling song barely adds any additional value to it. Coupling spots are more like a feel good thing for members, just to tell them 'you also have a place in the group'.

Finding this right balance thing... Not that easy, isn't it?

As for the Renacchi senbatsu thing. I agree with you on this. However special lineups like this are not that common. Might want to make an exception for that as well