Single Sakurazaka 2nd [BAN] (2021/04/14)

I think that there are people who feel "bored" already with how there is no change in Saku8 and the title song center (Hikaru), but I think that SF are most likely playing it safe right now by continuing to introduce the same new faces and attempt to establish a sense of their presence to public as the new group face(s). Right now I still believe in the potential this system have, and hope that in the long run they can bring back something as revolutionary as 3rd row rotation that started in Sezon. That was such a great system that equally gave every member the invaluable first row experience, and also become an opportunity that changed Koike and Habu to their present self as a result.

They still haven't published the track list for 2nd single, but I do hope it contains generation song or unit song. The biggest concern is Sakura8's stamina and physical health, as at the moment they have 10 songs (7 NF + 3 center songs in BAN)? that they need to continuously dance in a live show with only minor in-between break when they change costumes. Having generation song or unit song should allow them to rest longer

I think they did this in purpose to distance Karin from "Keyaki-vibe", because imo she have the strongest Keyaki-vibe out of the 3 new centers. But it also give her a very charming gap, which recently start showing in the shows and mobame and turning into a new "weapon" for her.

 

Musically speaking, Sakurazaka needs an "anthem" song, something that immediately identifies/associates them with the general public (Think AKB48's Aitakatta, or Keya's Silent Majority). They also need an awesome, all-out, bring-the-house-down song (Similar to AKB48's Heavy Rotation, HKT48's Melon Juice, or Keya's Fukyouwaon). Even in terms of overture, in my opinion Saku's is OK while Keya's overture is the best of any idol group, male or female, in or out of Japan.

So, while Sakus's first 2 singles songs are nice/easy on the ears, there is still room for improvement in this department.

 

I don't know how the overall Japanese fandom is reacting to this, but to me the one big thing that seems a negative about BAN is the lyrics. The lyrics are sung by someone who has just been gaming and not moving forward in his/her life, and who realizes in a panic he is being shut out of life: the game, perhaps, and also the wider world. This is not a message that someone interested in anime-manga-games wants to have to hear over and over again.

The point being made is not really the point of view of the people doing the singing, or their audience, it seems to me, but the point of view of an adult: just the opposite of Silent Majority.

Some posts from 5channel just refer to the lyrics as awful, one saying that the MV can't cover them up. Another said there was no winning phrase. So I think some fans are put off by them. Of course, there are some posters on 5channel who are just anti-Keyaki and always see nothing but negatives.

One poster says that Keyaki had a protagonist and a story, that the members became actors, and the choreo and MV direction worked together with them to get the story across, but that Sakura isn't getting that synergy.

Actually, I personally am not as enthusiastic about the MV or the choreo as many people are. They feel frantic and confused to me. One comment said it was like pasting together bits of choreo from various Keyaki songs. I don't know about that, but the dancing and camera-work just go too fast for me, so I can't really appreciate the moves. The fact that we glimpse every member fairly well is a plus, however.

Perhaps I'm just tripped up by the fact that I had been expecting and hoping for a melodic hanami song, involving sakura blossoms, etc., as a possible signature tune for the group, giving us something different from NF and fixing the group's name in the public mind. We're getting Sakurazaka no Uta on the release, it seems, but that music doesn't do much for me.

Anyway, here's hoping that the song will grow on the public, and that by mid-April they will be fully on board.

 

Not Sakurazaka already fading after the 1st single hype... they need a hit single as the 3rd one.

 

I totally agree with ukifune. Ban is more catchy than nobofa but I personally am not digging the part in white costume in the MV. The blue & white were really good though and screentime distribution was better too.

 

I feel that the reaction to the video has been generally positive, and I think the management took good cues from fans in hiring the NazeKoi director after the great feedback from that video.

So what happened with the views compared to Nobafa? Well it could be because people aren’t as hyped as they were when Sakurazaka had their debut, but I think what totally backfired was the trailer. Releasing it less than 48 hours before the actual video 1) didn’t allow the hype to build up, 2) kept the actual MV from trending in Japan... while the MV got more views, only the teaser was trending the day of release Like Keyaki, I think S&F expects for the public buzz to be an important factor in Sakurazaka's success and they completely fumbled the bag by doing something that would keep the video from reaching the home page for many casual fans.

I mean the teaser itself was cool, but it was just the intro to the song with nothing added. I'm not sure if they were going for some kpop-style rollout, but if they wanted to go that route, K-Pop usually starts teasers from a month before? Individual photo teasers, Solo video teasers, etc. I guess they were trying something new, but it clearly didn't work the way that they were probably hoping.

Of course, MV views for the first 24 hours aren't the end-all be-all either. When Sakurazaka finally starts performing the song on TV, I would hope the views and interest picks up again.

I feel like the sentiment on here is "Why don't they choose a better song?" or "Why doesn't Aki-P write better lyrics?" as if he's purposefully choosing songs that he thinks won't be successful In terms of the lyrics, I do think it's the opposite though? For both title-tracks I feel that Aki-P has tried to craft something hard-hitting and in the case of BAN, something relatable for young people. And I feel like both title tracks were attempts at anthems? I mean it's not easy to write a hit song...

Quick edit to include the handshake stats for the most recent round:




Rena was def a great choice as a new Senbatsu entry, if S&F continues to push her with Ozono I think this duo could def rise to the top.

 

Babe the single hasn’t even been released yet and you’re here reading and rearing to go talking about sakurazaka fading. 24 hour views as said isn’t the beginning nor the end for a groups success. Longevity is the key. Since you have so much to say please purchase a copy of Ban

 

Holy shit, Pe-tan is STRONG. As I was saying, this girl will stay until she's 30, no doubt about it now.
On the other hand, team Uemuu is but a shadow of its former glory. Strange.
Truly a mistery how of all this works...

 

I've read through all the various responses, and while I might disagree with some of the points, everyone has made reasonable arguments regarding their opinions which I can definitely accept. That's the beauty of constructive discussions, and I'm not here to disparage anyone's opinions

This point, however, is something that I am unable to agree with. By what metric do you think that Hinatazaka46 has surpassed Keyakizaka46?

I'm genuinely curious, because I can't think of any metric by which Hinatazaka46 has already surpassed Keyakizaka46. This isn't meant as any sort of criticism for Hinatazaka46, because I do enjoy their songs.

To surpass Keyakizaka46, they first need to break the 1 million sales mark. And Keyakizaka46 did it with their first generation senbatsu on their sixth single. Keyakizaka46 has 4 songs in the Top 5 of the entire 46 Group Youtube MV views, with Silent Majority and Fukyouwaon in the top two, and Futari Saison and Garasu wo ware in fourth and fifth and Nogizaka46's Synchronicity in third I think. Silent Majority is not only the most played idol song in the Japanese Heisei era, but it is also the most played Japanese song in the Heisei era regardless of whether by an idol group or not.

Just to iterate my point in my previous post, I'm concerned about Karin's numbers. I think that she's been doing great as one of the centers, but I'm concerned that management might take her out and put someone else with better numbers in even before she could get a chance at being the title single center.

 

If you realize how 5ch is not a good reference to use to gauge Japanese fans reaction maybe should stop?

Also, I think that with NF and BAN, the lyrics so far has always been like a sort of acceptance and a calling out. imo BAN is especially more targeted to young adults, like Heel no Takasa, which is perhaps the current age for majority of the fandom (who has grown 5 years older with Keyaki). The girls themselves are mostly a young adult or an adult already (Ten being the only active high schooler).

The complain about not having no story in the MV confuses me because wasn't Fukyouwaon a dance MV too? And there is also no "story" there. You can say the same to Garasu and Ambivalent.

I do also see a handful of comments talking about how the MV feels too fast, making it feel dizzying and discourage them from replying a lot.

Also, Sakurazaka so far has always been trying to "show individuality of the people within the group". Keyaki put the story first, emphasizing the Boku / center (Hirate), but Sakuzaka encourages them to add their own individuality so we have many "Boku"s instead of one

I'd be amazed if they could do something like this considering how bad are they at digital marketing, to the point I become increasingly convinced it's being handled by a boomer (or boomers). Like, Nogizaka and Hinatazaka utilize TikTok and Twitter to promote their releases but Keya didn't and not Sakurazaka too (so far). If that is not the direction they want for Sakurazaka, then OK, but they should be thinking of another way to generate more buzz instead of releasing something then went quiet again. They shouldn't expect the fans to do everything for them and should become aggressively pro-active as well. But I shouldn't hope too much from management that can't even manage their own official schedule correctly

 

Yep! Pechan has been arguably the most consistent seller since Day 1 (along with Zuumin). She doesn't get pushed as much as other top 1ki but she's very reliable as a fan-favorite
Uemu I feel like would sell better again once handshake events in person resume, but she's admittedly not had much to do recently.

I feel like she may end up being like Mon and be pushed despite her sales because of her good performances. But her sales aren't terrible, I'm sure she will sell out before the CD release date.

 

For me personally, I do not believe one group is overall better than the others. I started following Keya first which Hinata came from. So Hinata was the 2nd one to be followed and once I was caught up with everything for both groups, I went to the beginning of Nogi and got caught up. If someone just wants to discuss the business side of the groups, and which one brings in the most money, has the most followers, the best songs.. etc, I personally don't give 2 cents. But I see that type of discussion all the time between fans. Which is only natural. Same thing happens with sports fans. Sports teams that have been around longer, bring in more money, have the better players "usually" are the top teams.

I root for what are considered the underdogs most of the time.

As far as songs go, I lean more towards Keya/Saku songs due to following them the longest. But, I prefer more of the unit songs than singles from Hinata and with Nogi I like more of the under and gen songs. That's just my taste.

For their shows, atm, I think HinaAi is just a smidge better (thanks to Audrey letting/pushing the girls to be a little crazy). SokuSaku is getting better each time, but there have been a couple episodes that were just ok for me. I think NogiChu has stalled a bit and is just leveled out atm, but that happens to all of the shows from time to time. They all can't be great episodes all of the time.

But, all of this is also affected by Covid. There is only so much the groups can do at this time. So trying to get an idea on numbers, specs, and which group is better than the others overall is hard to do. All in my own opinion of course. I could be totally wrong here.

As far as the Meguri reports for sellouts, I don't think it can really be judged at this time due to, again, Covid. Once the groups can really start doing HS events again, I think the current sellouts could change, or some other girls could sell out faster. We just don't know. I know everyone praises Pe, and she did sell out quick (which is obviously great for her), but if I was able to actually go to a Saku HS event, she would be low on my list to meet. Again, thats just my personal opinion, which everyone has and is entitled to.

 

@miwa i'm also curious in what metric has hinata surpassed keyaki? the only one i can think of right now is variety-wise. and also maybe they (as of now) have more individual members that are recognized by the public?

@valerien hinata was hiragana keyaki back then and they played a significant role in reaching that 1 million sales judging by how well they sold their handshake slots (43% out of the total 6th single hs slot sales ):

Spoiler

seeing how badly covid=no handshake events effected the sales i honestly think it's impossible for any of the sakamichi groups to reach a 1 million with just meet and greet alone,, even moreso hinata with just 23 members.

 

@valerien @bondy Perhaps I've expressed myself badly. I don't mean that Hinatazaka has surpassed Keyakizaka at its peak, I mean Hinatazaka has surpassed Keyakizaka, or rather Sakurazaka, now. When I said that I always predicted that Hinatazaka would surpass Keyakizaka, whether or not Hirate was still in the group, it was just a prediction. Hinatazaka is a more traditional idol group after all (and before ohisamas say something, this isn't meant to be an insult at all).

Right now, Hinatazaka seem to constantly appear in TV shows, they have 6(!) exclusive models, their last album has sold very well despite covid (200k first week iirc, although I'm not sure if they had handshake events or not), Azato Kawaii has 15 million views, obviously more than Nobofa but also more than Nogizaka's Shiawase (although not more than I see...), their twitter account has over 700k followers and it seems to me like the number is steadily increasing (unlike, like I already mentioned, Sakurazaka who's been stuck at 1.1 million for a while now), they're about to release a compilation of those Friday weekly photos (I'm still annoyed Keyaki/Sakura never got that), they have 2 separate games (along with Uni's on air and Keyakise), two of the members recently joined acting projects with popular celebrities in Japan, Kyoko's photobook sold over 100k (iirc last time this happened with Keyaki was with Risa, although to be fair Kyoko has always been popular so this isn't that important), their group photobook sold almost as much as Keyaki's (again, to be fair Hinata's group photobook was more like a traditional idol's photobook, along with lingerie photos and even a sexy photo of Nao who was a minor at the time but I digress) etc. I'm curious on whether anyone will make it in the Nikkei individual idol ranking (iirc it's released in May), last year no one made it in.

These are some reasons why I believe Hinatazaka is currently doing better than Sakurazaka. My point isn't to compare them to Keyakizaka at their peak but right now. Seed & Flower seem to be managing Hinatazaka very well, ohisamas really have nothing to complain about at the moment (except for the release of the 5th single but I'm sure that's coming after Ban). I like both groups but I prefer Sakurazaka (although I love Keyakizaka the most but that group is essentially dead lmao) and I'd love for Sakurazaka to reach the heights Keyaki did. But who knows if that will happen.

 

@miwa Well hinata were more active than keyaki in 2019. Very very active. 2 years of no releases will lead to a group losing momentum with both the public and fanbase. So while hinata have been doing all that and keyaki staying dormant for 2 years and then suddenly disbanding its kinda understandable to see why sakurazaka are somewhat struggling to regain/achieve similar momentum.

One thing I don’t see Hinata achieving is a hit like Keyaki or a dominant brand like nogizaka. With sakurazaka I do see it. It’ll take time and management not screwing up simple things though lol. Oh and luck.

 

@miwa fair point, but sakurazaka kinda is a soft reset of keyaki and almost all of their most popular members already left, most of sakura's current members are kind of what we can consider rookies(super rookies lol).
while on the other hand hinata have their fanbase and momentum following them since their hiragana days.

although i also don't really see hinata having a explosive hit like keyaki or be a dominant brand like nogi's level~ who am i to say really lol! in the end time will tell~ but they're currently doing really well in their own quirky way and are headed in the right direction to grow their brand and maintain staying power & hopefully attract and recruit more talented girls in the future.

that aside, although i like BAN and Nobody's fault music wise and the music video's choreography which i found was really cool and beautifully shot.. there was just something missing? hard to explain..
that being said, Naze koi was friggin amazing in my opinion and my favourite sakurazaka hit so far. they nailed every aspect.. and the girls, Karin in particular did a wonderful job expressing the lyrics through her performance as center, (it actually made feel something.. i think i fell in love with her lmfao. i rewatched the mv many times)...

 

Never confuse fisherwomen with stars. Acchan and Paruru never was being a super HS master! Same but vice versa with Oguri, Suda etc.

 

I finally could watch BAN MV a second time and I have to say it's exactly like the first one.
Overall not good as I expected it to be and not bad enough to be put aside completely.

I like the song itself, but reading the lyrics translation left me quite disappointed.
It felt like a boomer wrote this song presuming to know how someone way younger thinks.... failing miserabily. At the same time it gave a message no fan should accept from the group they love.
It's the first time it happens in Keyaki/Sakura and it's not a good sign.

The MV itself has an hell of choreo I hope will be tuned down during concerts for the girls' sake and some amazing drone shots, great location set and beautiful new costumes.

At the same time there is still too much Keyaki in it but without the energy that made Keyaki something different. Like, they packed in everything they could and forgot the most important part.
I'm sure the girls spent tons of energy making this MV; it's fast, chaotic, but without a real soul. Way below the first three Sakura MVs

I can't really speak about how well or not Sakura and this single are doing, but I always feel it's too soon to really make comparisons.
Let the girls to really have the time to find their path, wherever it will take them. And at the same time the fandom too should take its time to find its path and grow. Other groups are already settled and so are they fandoms, but it's a process that doesn't happen in a few months.
And like many wrote, having a real hit song would help a lot with that.

Nobody's fault single has 3 perfect MVs so I'm not giving up on this yet, but I expect a lot better.
There's no need to kill the girls to create a beautiful song/choreo/mv

 

you're the one who is not letting them do that by constantly comparing them to keyaki, beloved

 

also the lyrics didn’t fail in terms of relatability :/ a lot of japanese and intl fans basically confirmed how relatable the lyrics are. I think you’re projecting @Dill