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Shida Manaka (Mona) / Keyakizaka46 1st Generation

Discussion in 'Sakurazaka46 Graduated Members' started by nakotteiijan, Nov 2, 2015.

  1. FuuFuuFuu

    FuuFuuFuu Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2016
    Oshimen:
    yagurafuuko
    Not gonna lie, the wota/otaku stigma of 48G fanbase was partly why I did not want to commit fully to idols, even sakamichi ones.

    That gives me hope for Mona. I hope she can make something out of this situation and not fade from the entertainment industry altogether.
     
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  2. CrssA

    CrssA Upcoming Girls

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2016
    Location:
    Tokyo
    Oshimen:
    Nishino Nanase
    Well at least , the stigma which wota cant befriended with normal people were not as bad as in the past..

    Teenagers were still have lots of wota characteristics ( like how they’re devoting to their oshii ). But i would said the stigma that wota is unsocialized people were not true these days..

    My wota friends were , yeah we’re devoting to certain groups / members. But we still do socialized things , go to college , hanging out , shopping and etc.
     
  3. ariadne32391

    ariadne32391 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2015
    Oshimen:
    watanaberika
    I think the main problem why japanese fans tend to put so much expectations on idols is because some almost dedicate their lives to supporting that idol. Like 80% of their salary would be spent on idol goods, concerts etc. I think it makes some of them feel entitled.

    I remember watching a C-ute video where they interviewed fans about how much they spend every month. Average answers were around 250k-300k yen per month, some even more. And Keyaki is more popular than C-ute.

    Of course, this doesn't excuse their behavior but you can see why a lot of the hardcore fans would get really upset easily. Too much financial and emotional investment in an idol is never a good thing.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2018
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  4. CrssA

    CrssA Upcoming Girls

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2016
    Location:
    Tokyo
    Oshimen:
    Nishino Nanase
    i would't denied that using 80% of salary is too much. hell , i'm 100% sure it'll be pretty hard if to fulfill your living cost with only 20% of income in tokyo.

    but , imo. the best person will know is it too much ( financial or emotion ) was the person itself. 10 people said this guys were too much , as far as his heart and mind said its ok , then he'll not stop. its a basic human traits imo.

    tbh i'm not against their investments or upsets , because they can do whatever with the money they got themselves. but sometimes people's act is surpassing the highest line also. in here , i would give some examples like burning goods , suicidal attempt , insulting the girls directly at HS events were those kinds of acts that surpass the limit.
     
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  5. Ophelia

    Ophelia Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2017
    Oshimen:
    Kitahara Rie
    I recently watched a documentary called 'Tokyo Idols' and it followed some hardcore idol fans who spent way too much time, energy and money on supporting their idols. They say they do everything to selflessly support their idols but it all still felt very selfish to me. They put these huge expectations on their favourite idols and even used their high status in their respective fandoms to get their favourite idols to notice them. The way they spoke made it seem like their dedication and love towards these idols is selfless but that's not the case at all. They felt super entitled as if some of these girls actually owed them something. Big name idols probably don't have it as bad, even though they do probably feel like they have to give something in return. But these lesser-known idols have these crazy obsessed fans who spend a lot of money and appear at EVERY show. If I were in the shoes of those girls.... I wouldn't know what to do with that. As an idol, your popularity is all about your fans and if you're not as well known then you have to do everything in your power to keep these fans happy. The psychology behind that seems very draining to me. It would also frighten the hell out of me. Imagine being 14-18 years old and having these old ass dudes follow you around everywhere. Also some of the things these entitled ''fans'' say at handshake events is outright creepy. IDK man. I've been following idols for YEARS now and this whole thing is still a bit odd to me.

    There was this line in the documentary that went something like: 'This society will stop at nothing to protect male fantasies' and this is sadly the case for the girls who decide to become idols. They are real people but tend to get labelled with these very one-dimensional idol archetypes and often even dumb themselves down in the name of comedy or to appeal ''cute''. The whole ''virginal'' act is also hypocritical as hell because on one hand, these girls have to portray a certain innocence but on the other, they also get sexualized quite a bit (some of the photobooks these girls release...). Of course, this isn't something that is openly discussed. Throw the written/unwritten dating rules into that equation and you start to realize that it's kinda fucked up.

    What I am trying to say is that the idol culture and mindset needs to get with the times. Why? Because even though I don't personally know these girls, I've been following them for quite some time and I wish them all the happiness in the world. Manaka is one of my favourites in Keya46 and to see her disappear and getting her dreams destroyed because of a dating scandal won't sit right with me and would make me very sad. Is it a different culture? Sure? Does that mean that I got to approve of it? No. I really hope she will come back. I really do. :(
     
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  6. FuuFuuFuu

    FuuFuuFuu Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2016
    Oshimen:
    yagurafuuko
    But isn't that a nature of the beast kind of thing? Those lesser-known idols are lesser-known for a reason, and no-one besides those type of fans will be willing to spend that much money on those girls.

    That's why I ponder "how far would they get on their personality, looks, skill level, etc in the entertainment industry?"

    I think low caliber girls are called to be on magazines and shows ONLY because it will snag some hardcore fans money. If not idoling, they'd be living normal lives so I think those low caliber girls appreciate that fact and deal with that nature of the beast of their job.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2018
  7. eve666

    eve666 Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2017
    Oshimen:
    suzumotomiyu
    I notice on my last comment I got a couple disagrees and while don't care I really want to comment on how pathetic that there are some people that are actually ok with this young girl being ostrisized and given some scarlet letter simply because she went on a date.

    It would be entirely different id there were pictures floating around if her nude or doing something sexual like that other member that left early on due to the fact that she was having relations with an older man who was her former teacher wgicg is entirely inappropriate but this....this is ridiculous. I'd imagine this girl is at home sobbing or feeling like she shamed herself just cause she wanted to be s normal teen for a moment.

    Do you guys go around hardcore judging people for what they do in their personal lives as if your saints yourself all the time or is this just fir this forum?
     
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  8. FuuFuuFuu

    FuuFuuFuu Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2016
    Oshimen:
    yagurafuuko
    I think the responses are gonna be like:

    I don't care enough about people to judge them. I care enough about idols to judge them.

    I can't really disagree with that. Mona made a mistake(as everybody does), but it was an occupational responsibility she signed a contract for, and her breaking it has caused undue damage to her image, no matter how much we don't want it to, as well as probably affecting the group dynamic unproductively.
     
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  9. Reveen

    Reveen Under Girls

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2013
    Location:
    Sunnyvale Trailer Park
    Just be aware that that programme was created by the BBC which in the last few years has taken a turn to the far left end of the political spectrum and is full bore in favour of the radical feminist/SJW agenda which wants to destroy the "patriarchy"* and as an incidental tactic pretty much wants to infiltrate and destroy anything that males like (comics, videogames, sci-fi, magic the gathering, AD&D), thus the negative focus on idols.

    *of course somehow this patriarchy in the west has males comprising 80+% of suicides, 90+% of workplace deaths and women live on average 5 to 8 years longer than men...some patriarchy!

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    And just in general and not aimed at anyone in particular I'm getting kind of sick of the attitude on this forum towards "wota". I've had contact with the election committee of my oshimen and they are the nicest guys, they couldn't be more kind or obliging. If you look in the AKB/NMB/SKE/Nogizaka/Keyakizaka experience threads and you'll find many more stories like that about the kindness of japanese fans. Look at the HKT48 documentary and you'll see Rikopi's superfan and he's the nicest guy, look at Haruka Shimada's documentary and you'll see her big fans really care about her a lot. Sure there are some jerks and weirdos but people here are tarring the 99% of the good fans with the bad stuff of the 1%.
     
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  10. ariadne32391

    ariadne32391 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2015
    Oshimen:
    watanaberika
    Although this is sad and scary but this is also the reality of the idol world and I don't think this will change anytime soon. Fans are your greatest ally and greatest enemy.

    I think Japan in general has this bad of habit of criticizing the female more than the males. Like in Becky's case, there was heavy backlash on her and she's not even an idol. Granted of course, she had an affair with the married man which was quite bad. But still the guy wasn't hated as much. Good thing though, she bounced back.

    In Japan, being an idol is a job and I think most people expect that those who want to be an idol be aware of the sacrifices and responsibilities necessary. But sadly, most girls who enter the idol world aren't really that aware of the scary reality that awaits them.

    Anyways, as for Shida it's up to her now. There are far more worse scandals than hers but she is in quite a fragile space right now. So who knows how she will cope with this. Personally, I hope she is able to recover from this and choose to stay. I want her to come back and not be bullied into leaving the group because of the scandal. If she does want to leave the group, I don't want it to be because of the scandal.
     
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  11. glsone

    glsone Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2016
    I'm loathe to get into a discourse on this since it's literally a lose/lose conversation but the common sentiment you will find is that idols are not normal girls. They get to do extraordinary things at the cost of being held to extraordinary standards. Whether the benefits out weight the costs is up to each girl to decide individually.
     
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  12. tuxedo_gin

    tuxedo_gin Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2016
    Location:
    Japan
    Oshimen:
    onishimomoka
    I don't agree with all your opinions, but this one is spot on. The first idol concerts I ever went to were in 2008 after following idols from across the ocean for a few years. I found the Japanese wota to be incredibly kind and friendly. Hell, when one of them saw my oshi was the same as his, he gave me his handmade foam sign so that I could try to get her attention during the show - sacrificing his own chance at being noticed. I still have it in a box back home.

    Yeah, there's the vocal minority of insane guys that will shred up or burn merchandise when they feel betrayed, but for the majority of hardcore wota, they just want to find a way to pay their oshi back for all the support she has given them that allows them to make it through shitty days. Yeah, there's something a bit "off" about being obsessed with idols - but no more so than many other mental/emotional "crutches" that people use. Some use religion, some find support in other ways, wota find support in their idols.
     
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  13. chrissirhc

    chrissirhc Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2016
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    yamaguchimaho
    forgetting the dating ban aspect for a moment, we need to remember this whole situation involves adults stalking a teenage girl.
     
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  14. FuuFuuFuu

    FuuFuuFuu Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2016
    Oshimen:
    yagurafuuko
    It’s their job though ... And she is still a national celebrity, despite teenage age, and it seems Japan is changing age of adult to 18 like other countries.

    At least it’s not Perfect Blue situation of crazy fan stalking. Bunshun acquiring purikura set makes me think someone close to Mona sold her out and gave location info to them for maximum stalkability
     
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  15. chrissirhc

    chrissirhc Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2016
    Oshimen:
    yamaguchimaho
    being their job doesn't mean people with a decent set of morals shouldn't be disgusted by a young lady being stalked. i mean history is filled with pretty deplorable things that used to be "jobs"

    i wonder if these types of situations help encourage fan stalking. i wouldn't be surprised if it helps plant the idea
     
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  16. FuuFuuFuu

    FuuFuuFuu Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2016
    Oshimen:
    yagurafuuko
    I just meant I don’t think bunshun had nefarious intentions(like assault) which I associate with adults stalking vulnurable young women. But it was adult employees of a news paper that’s well known for finding and putting out dirt(without purposefully and provably false claims) on idols as well as celebrities, politicians, actors.

    I think even without bunshun, crazy does as crazy do. The idea of stalker fans probably began with the concept of idols at the very start.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2018
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  17. glsone

    glsone Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2016
    I seriously doubt anyone mentally ill enough to go to that kind of extreme needs the help to come up with bad ideas.
     
  18. chrissirhc

    chrissirhc Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2016
    Oshimen:
    yamaguchimaho
    ^ obviously i can't prove there is any connection, but if you found out there was a connection (even a subsconscious one) between a fan stalker and media stalking an idol and getting the "dirt" would you be surprised?
     
  19. eve666

    eve666 Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2017
    Oshimen:
    suzumotomiyu
    I know they have to sacrifice a lot for an amazing opportunity but to punish them for slipping up in a way that they need to go in hiding doesn't seem right
     
  20. FuuFuuFuu

    FuuFuuFuu Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2016
    Oshimen:
    yagurafuuko
    I think the connection is that they’re both stalking.
    Unless the fan stalker is also attempting to find dirt on the idol, and only dirt, I think bunshun stalking is less problematic than a fan stalking.
    Bunshun has to rely on tips and heads up on the idol location or celebrity caught in a scandal or politician being outted.
    A fan stalking means they invested a lot more time and energy finding out location patterns and god knows what else to successfully stalk.
    I think someone going that far has more problematic intentions than just simply trying to find dirt on their oshi.
    Now if it’s a crazy fan stalking and attacking after and only after bunshun leak and wants revenge on an idol, I don’t know if even that will get bunshun taken down.
    They don’t make false claims and take pics/vids on public space, so how can they be punished?
     

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