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Discussion in 'General Nogizaka46 Discussion' started by ひめか, Apr 17, 2019.

  1. Seditious85

    Seditious85 Upcoming Girls

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    It's not how CMs or campaigns work. They employ pretty faces to draw interest, and it doesn't really matter if these faces actually favor the product or service.
    I don't think they should actually be giving blood, just because they are featured in the campaign. Just like most of the members probably don't own Mouse Computers, use a Google Pixel phone, eat Fettuccine Gummi every day or drink Kirin Kyoketsu every night.
     
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  2. kanjo

    kanjo Stage48 Admin Staff Member Stage48 Admin

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    ① They're not in amazing shape. They're skinny and they don't dance all the time.
    ② They're way skinnier than the average person, and far skinnier than their mostly male fanbase
    ③ This isn't true. I know a bunch of people who are very peeved that they can't give blood due to some regulation or another. I don't, because I get dizzy, but I've never met anyone against the idea. They just need a push.
    ④ No, it'd look super bad. We know they're not volunteering because they're doing this for work. If it's a solo celebrity or a small band we might believe they decided to do it, but if it's an idol group we know they're doing it because they were told to, because they don't manage their own CM appearances. Everyone would be aware of this and it would be really bad press.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2019
  3. eternalord

    eternalord Kenkyuusei

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    Rather than the problem of Nogi members who do the blood donation campaign don't donate, I think the real problem is to let the truth comes out to the press. Simply put, the campaign is just Red Cross hiring Nogi, and Nogi management chooses members they want to push. No consideration of their blood donation history. Which is fine, they are just poster girls for a campaign, no obligation to actually do it. Or is it?

    Read this interview https://ken-love.jp/hatachi/interview/index.html
    Especially the answers of the first question.

    In my opinion they should have redacted it. It's unappealing to the target demography for the commercial to read that the ones who encourage them to do so, don't do it—or worse, don't even attempt to do it—or even worse, giving 'self-diagnosed' reason for not doing so.
    The fault is at the management, both Nogi and Red Cross, for not being thorough in this part. It will be different if they actually tried, and then told that they can't because their weight etc.
    Or at least fabricate some story along that notion, I don't know, it's business anyway.

    And the members who answered it that way also made mistake. By all means they may be being honest there, but again, they are trying to 'sell' something here, to persuade people. The answers, as much as I hate to say, are not professional.

    'So what do you think about our coffee you are promoting?'
    'Actually I can't drink coffee. It makes my heart pounding'
    'My friends haven't tasted it, so I haven't as well. Is it decaf?'
    How's that sound for a commercial interview?
     
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  4. cantankerous

    cantankerous Kenkyuusei

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    I wonder what this blood donation all about but I can understand the point to be addressed here. To the girl's defense, I don't see the members that have been interviewed was put on blame since the red cross +mgmt don't even bother to filter or flag it out for their "honesty" or "justification", which is actually kind of contra-persuasive from what this ads want to aim for. There shouldn't be a deal of contradiction imo if they didn't post it that way, just be nice poster girls. If that kind of question is really just inevitable, they should have adressed it differently.
     
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  5. towiti

    towiti Kenkyuusei

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    Imagine having to donate blood to run an ad campaign lol.
    Still, donating blood is good for your health too. Whether they are healthy or not is not something we know, but if they are (which is more likely) then they should do it. We should all do it. Isn't that what the campaign about? It's a good cause. Not because they run the ad, but because it's a good deed.
     
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  6. gish0046

    gish0046 Kenkyuusei

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    This blood donation scandal is going to be the end of Nogizaka46!

    Or maybe its just a commercial and who cares?
     
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  7. cantankerous

    cantankerous Kenkyuusei

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    Lol nobody, except we just kind of run out of controversial topic to complain on,
    Which is fine actually:awesome:
     
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  8. mayuri91

    mayuri91 Kenkyuusei

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    when we will get naughtyzaka? at least at ske48 frustation level. the song is meh but i really like how they kinda transform into naughty girl. and nao with the guys are quite bold. their theme is not the usual happy summer but party hard during summer.
     
  9. kanjo

    kanjo Stage48 Admin Staff Member Stage48 Admin

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    @eternalord I think you're misreading the question. It's "what has your idea of giving blood been prior to this?"
    They're discussing their thoughts before the campaign. Hori, for example, didn't say that she couldn't. She said that prior to the campaign she was worried about her ability to.

    It's not like doing an ad for coffee and saying you've never tried it.
    It's like doing an ad for coffee and saying you had never tried it before. That you were worried it might be too bitter.
     
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  10. eternalord

    eternalord Kenkyuusei

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    I don't think I did. That prior to this can imply a time frame of right before the interview. While it's technically the past, it hasn't changed. Hence the answers and implications.
    Miona said that she had low blood pressure and she's worried about her ability to donate, yes. But she didn't say that she actually examined, that a medic/red cross worker actually told her after examination that she couldn't because of said limitation. Nothing she said implied that, so it's still safe to assume that she didn't check her availability yet at least until the end of the interview. Don't get me wrong, the girls might actually checked or even donated after that, who knows. Or not, fine by me.
    What I am highlighting is the way members answer the question. I said before that they may be just being honest in their answers, but it's not convincing and even becomes counter persuasive. There are other ways to ask that, and to answer that in a more... political or commercial manner. Because next questions are fine, about changes in their perception, wanting to spread more awareness etc.
    In my opinion, and as a criticism, members especially younger ones need to learn more about the difference between formal interview like this and gravure interview where they can be frank about their daily activities, feelings, and experiences.

    About my coffee ad analogy, even after you correct it to sound like the interview takes place after she tried it, it still has the same ring.
    'What's your impression of our coffee?'

    Then she should answer with the likes of
    'It's tempting/It looked good, smelled nice'

    And not
    'I had never drunk your coffee before because I am worried of my heart palpitations'
    It's honest, but doesn't bode well. Even more because until the end nothing implied she actually tried it.

    However, all these are my two cents. I am not trying to make this a huge deal, but I think it's a valid criticism. Japanese wota (and antis) realized this matter too about a month ago, but sure it's already died down now. It's just that the topic is up here now, and I am giving the counterview.
     
  11. kanjo

    kanjo Stage48 Admin Staff Member Stage48 Admin

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    I'm not under the impression that you're making it out to be a big deal or anything. I find your tone and arguments valid and appropriate.

    But I still think the answers are fine if you read the purpose of the question, which is "prior to the campaign". That's the definite nuance in the question and it's later confirmed with the second question, "How did your impression change as a result of being made a character in the blood donation campaign"?
    Reading each members' answers back-to-back I think you'll find they're very appropriate. Or, at least, I did.
     
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  12. Conjyak

    Conjyak Kenkyuusei

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    They are thin, but they are in top physical shape if you ask me. There is thin healthy and average-weight healthy and chubby healthy, come on. Let me reiterate one of these - there IS thin healthy, it exists surely. You can't not be at least healthier than the average person and do what they do with all the dancing. But this kind of gets beside the point. "Thin people shouldn't donate blood" - is that a message that should be given or implied? Idols and models are pretty enough to do ads but too thin to donate blood - is that a message that should be accepted? (In fact, I think one of the points of this campaign is to get the message out that young and thin people can donate, too.)

    Not every day and night, but actually, I'm sure that they are highly discouraged if not outright told NOT to reveal what they personally use for a phone or a computer or etc. etc. especially if they have a CM going on at that time. That's why you see so many of their pictures on blogs and such with backgrounds blurred out. This probably goes for anyone in show business who does ads. (I know a lot of them share the make up brands they use. But I wonder if they've told Maiyan not to reveal hers after she started doing ads for make up lol.)

    Solo, small band, big group, I don't see the difference. If there's a good reason to not donate blood, that's fine. I think there are ways of dealing with it behind closed doors. With a solo, just decline the ad offer. With a big group, it's also easy - you have ~20 in sembatsu, surely you can find 5 out of 20 who are willing to donate blood. So use those 5. I don't know, something like that. You don't need all 40 of them donating blood at the same time lol, that'd be overkill, even I would say.

    I'm glad you linked the interviews. I actually had skimmed that page before but didn't give it a bit more of a read until you linked it again.

    So, while I think the questions you posed are good and are basically the same as the questions I have (did management consider their blood donation qualifications etc.), I actually agree with kanjo's reading of the interview, that it sounds like it was about their thoughts "right before the campaign" and that there still might be an "after the campaign" section coming up where their knowledge/experience is more complete, or they make it sound like that. Miona says, "I was iffy about blood donation before because I have low blood pressure and I thought women had to be > 50 kg, but actually it's just > 40kg. It's good to be more knowledgeable about etc. etc. etc." Much later in the interview, they ask them, "Who would you go with Nogi to go donate blood?" and they answer like, "Oh, I would go with the people here who did the CM together," or "I would go with Ranze," and "I want to go with someone who doesn't like getting shots at the doctor!" It almost sounds like they will do a second part of the campaign that has them actually donate blood. But it's not very clear. They make it sound like that, though. Like, as if they might go... lol. I thought the answers they gave were very professional, had some information, were relevant to young people, and was probably exactly what the red cross and nogi management and most audiences wanted or expected.

    So while I think you might've read the interview differently, I agree with this. That would be a bad coffee CM interview. In my second post, I was saying: "So what do you think about blood donation?" "Unfortunately, I can't donate because of these valid physical reasons." <-- This *might* *could* *possibly* be ok because at least it gives more information to the public. But I totally agree that: "So what do you think about blood donation?" "Oh, I'm not donating. Ew, blood, whatever." is no good lol. I think a big part of the interview is to get the reader feeling like they can relate to the members. They say stuff like, "Most people around me don't know about donating blood," "It never comes up as a topic among young people," "But now I've learned how important it is," "Blood donation is extremely important," etc., stuff like that. It's a gentle approach to try to get uninterested people a little interested in it. Which makes sense, because the whole issue with something like this is that people are just uninterested or don't give a crap about it.

    Like I said before, with a donation type campaign, it's slightly different from a regular consumer product campaign. It's less about glamor and coolness and a bit more about genuineness or at least appearing to be genuine and caring.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2019
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  13. Remylittlechef

    Remylittlechef Kenkyuusei

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    There is an interesting discussion about Nogizaka's variety show, they said Bananaman didn't really show some interest toward 3rd gen on Nogizaka Koujichuu. Especially Shitara-san, the one who mostly leads the shows both his role as Tsukkomi or Boke. Shitara is freely able to interact and throw Tsukkomi mostly to 1st gen members, but he looked reluctant when throwing it to any of the 3rd gen members.

    Bananaman's bond with 1st and 2nd gen have been so strong but looked like they have stopped there. If you remember during the days of Nogidoko and Nogichuu at the beginning, many epic moments that were created and the characteristics of the members who showed from there, moreover they didn't hesitate to do things that were considered stupid to be able to provoke laughter and some of their chara interest the MC so much that they were teased many times because of that. But for now the 1st gen members are too adults so they cannot make a huge laughter, and their juniors are still unable to stand out in front of them, so they can't bring out their characteristics through this program and make some appeal towards the MC.

    It's up to them whether they want to fix this condition or not, or they are comfortable with this type of show. But given the success of 1st gen which, thanks to this variety show, I think the next gens must also work harder (to preserve the rating of the show or keeping Nogizaka's image on their hands). Since Bananaman has served this show for 8 years and has turned 47, I think it's natural that they want to replace MC with someone who is younger and more adaptive with members especially their new members. Or change the concept of the program to be similar to Nogiten, where the members themselves are MC and performers.
     
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  14. mayuri91

    mayuri91 Kenkyuusei

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    they need someone with legendary variety skill like sasshi.
     
  15. kinglight25

    kinglight25 Kenkyuusei

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    Wow! It is really an unpopular opinion, Shitara really cares about the 3rd gen. We got Umemayo nick name, Yoda's interaction with Shitara is good too especially on Okinawa episodes. Kubo and Mukai had some good moments. I think Shitara will throw any Tsukumi instantly if he see the chance on any members. He really doesn't scare of or keep distance with the 3rd gen at all, I remember he even call Iwamoto is a countryside yankii or made Mukai cry out loud because she wanted to run.
    If the management wants to fix this, bring more 3rd gen on Nogichuu. Example on this week episode, if they chose 3rd gen become the sensei not Ikuta and Asuka, Shitara would have had a chance to interact with them. Last week, they brought Umezawa on and then we got Doremi sisters.
    I don't think the younger MC can make the bond with the new gen better than Bananaman. To make a strong bond, you need to take notice, understand and have sympathy with them. I still surprise Shitara remember Wada Maaya's birthday, Umezawa's nickname or Mukai's glasses.
     
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  16. gish0046

    gish0046 Kenkyuusei

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    I agree that Bananaman's closeness to 1st and 2nd gen is just simply familiarity rather than favoritism or Bananaman not liking 3rd gen. Bananaman has been with 1st gen for 8 years.

    What they need are some 3rd gen ONLY episodes. Nogi girls are good girls who don't speak out of turn and always defer to their senpai. So there needs to be an extended series of episodes with only 3rd gen for Bananaman to build a better rapport with them without 1st gen getting in the way.

    On that same token we also need a 4th gen only season of bingo.
     
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  17. outkastband

    outkastband Kenkyuusei

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    agreed with 3rd gen only ep.
    from what i see, 3rd gen still reluctant to speak freely in front of their senpais.
    we need someone like macchun or kazu who like to throw boke to bananaman.
    think if those 2 graduate, who will succeed them as boke chara?
    well, if someone says hazuki then she will have a very long way.
     
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  18. Conjyak

    Conjyak Kenkyuusei

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    I don't know how many people manage a particular Matome site, but there are definitely "personalities" to a Matome site (in fact, it's possibly just one person, so that one person is picking the posts and comments he sees on 2ch or wherever and pasting them). Some matome sites tend to choose major news and put them in a positive light. Some matome sites post threads on very minor 2ch threads as well, sometimes even copy-pasting only 1 or 2 2ch comments. Some matome sites tend to choose negative or "controversial" topics or present things in a controversial or clickbaity way, like "This girl may be in a scandal!!!! Pics!!!!wwww". The site you linked is one of the Matome sites that I remember tends to always choose or depict things negatively (which is why I stopped visiting it lol). They're probably picking and pasting only comments that argue that Bananaman isn't interested in gen 3 and a new MC is called for. Commenters here have shown examples of Bananaman's banter with gen 3.

    No doubt that Bananaman's rapport with gen 1 is the best. But the other thing is Bananaman is still at heart variety comedians, so naturally they're gonna enjoy, remember, and want to banter with variety girls the most. Members like Nojo, Maaya, and Hazuki aren't at the top of fan lists, but they are probably very high up on Bananaman's list of Nogi members they like. After all, they make Bananaman's job easier. Without members like that, Bananaman has to carry more of the load.

    But, I still say Bananaman has been epic as MCs even (or especially) for quiet members or episodes. I see no reason to change MCs yet, and if they do, it's a huge risk. (If they do want to change MCs, I would say they should do that after a *complete* transition has been made from the Maiyan era to the post-Maiyan era. What I mean is, don't even change MCs right after Maiyan has graduated, as that will be the most dangerous period for Nogi from management's perspective. Make it more like 2 full years after Maiyan has graduated, when the next era's front row/sembatsu feels super solid.) And I say they've been epic especially for quiet members and episodes because that's when you see how good Bananaman can be. If the episode is rowdy and funny, any MC or no MC like Nogiten will do. When it's a quiet episode or a serious episode (sembatsu stuff, talking about the past, graduations, etc.), that's when Bananaman is head and shoulders above other MCs. And I don't just mean being funny and jokey to lighten the mood, but to mix both funny and genuine, serious conversation and observations.

    While I understand gen 1 is more adult now, I disagree. The New Years episode had them all (including gen 1 front row people) in full Sunday best traditional kimono running around, falling over each other, painting ink on their faces. And the ability to banter, i.e. verbal comedy is more important than physical comedy for older girls. So if you see the older girls making everyone laugh by what they say rather than physical stuff, that's a good thing. Verbal comedy is the realm of "adults" (and those talk shows you see people like Manatsu and Kazumin be guests on) because you need a certain amount of experience to be able to banter on TV with these other people on TV in their 30s to 60s.


    I definitely don't agree. Nogiten is fine as it is, and they should continue it some how. Having a good MC makes a huge difference IMO in how entertaining and watchable a show can be, as well as how the members learn and improve their variety skill. Nogizaka basically has like a Jimmy Kimmel or Andersen Cooper-level MC (if you're familiar with US TV) presenting them every week on TV. Sony should throw millions of dollars at Bananaman to keep them for as long as they can :p

    Definitely agree. Although Bananaman are called "Nogizaka's official older brothers," I think actually Nogidoko and Nogichuu have shown them to have more of an uncle-like or father-like approach. And that's where that understanding and sympathy come from IMO. If the MCs are younger (and more older brother-like), while they may have no problem creating rowdiness and fun, the caring, parental, sympathy-type feeling may be harder to create on screen.
     
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  19. hiraganatwice

    hiraganatwice Kenkyuusei

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    3ki do need to step it up with banter and general presence on Nogichuu. Maybe except for Mukai but even then she’s more loud rather than refined comedic banter such as Manatsu and Kaz. Also seems that we’ll never get another Ringo.... They still lack in comparison to their senpais. 4ki seem to have variety potential such as Kaki Sayaka and possibly Mayu and Seira.
     
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