ZOMBIES: Troublemakers?

as we know, Zombies (brutal/over reaction fans) have create a lot of trouble for the other fans, the members and even the JOT hem selves. members gets pushed, intimidated to take a picture with them, being chased on their way to their pushed etc

this is a continuation from the discussion on JKT's general discussion thread.I'll copy some related post here later (currently i used mobile phone)

What is Zombie?

Zombie's General Behavior:*credits to Kagetora
1 Zombies is a primitive level of fans

Spoiler

- Thus, fans is an evolved version of zombie
- It is unheard of a fan that devolved into zombie. It is more likely to term the fans that show symptoms of zombie behavior as addicted, obsessed, sick than to term them as devolved
- We all inherit some zombie DNA. We can still go crazy by a wink from Shania or Nabilah. Or get literally blown by hurricane if Ve ever throw us a kiss blow (Has it happened before? since I can imagine that happen. If she haven't do it, she'd better do it before - for instance - Mayuyu do, or the title hurricane will be given to Mayuyu). But at least we have some level of control of such craziness

2 Zombies don't respect the borderline; fans do

Spoiler

The word 'fans' is derived from the word 'fanatics', which in turn derived from the word 'fane', 'fanum' (Latin) that means holy ground, temple, sanctuary. The term fanatics have been used by the Roman Legion while dealing with some people that outrageously defend their holy ground (I can't remember clearly where I read that, perhaps in Julius Caesar's Gallic War)
- Zombies desecrate the holy ground; fans protect it
- This 'holy ground' thing points at one distinguishing principles: a fan knows the borderline when they should adjust their behaviour as they enter their holy ground (temple, shrine, theatre) or face the persons that are bound to the activities in those sites. Zombies don't (Somehow, previous reference to Roman civilization make me begin to associate 48Members with the Vestal Virgins, or Miko)(please bear in mind that the term 'holy' is an allegory from previous reference of the term 'fans'. I am not trying to start a cult LOL)

3. Zombies prefers to follow their drive than reason

Spoiler

3a. are always hungry
- It is their basic drive: to gain something they don't have, without paying proper price. Ask Ask Ask are all they do.
-- Perhaps that explain why most Zombies sighting were reported in free live events, or anything with low budget and less restriction
-- Trust me, it doesn't sound like Leonidas in 300 (film) "Give them nothing, but take from them everything"

4 Zombies prefer to maximize damage to the other party than to minimize it to get what they want

Spoiler

4a Zombies use raw force
- act in crowd is one version of it to minimize their loss from the probability being caught and deemed guilty while maximize their chance for gaining regardless of the other party's consent
- scolding, trash-talking, cyber-bullying, using profane languages, cry-babying and whatever immature cyber behaviour is another version of it in psychological spectrum
4b or when they think they can do it without being punished
- sneaking behaviour, either in real life or in cyber space is part of it

5 Zombies are lack of self consciousness

Spoiler

- Hunger overrides common sense. When you are hungry, you want to eat. You don't want any reasoning not to
- 'I always right, you always wrong' attitude
- Hunger, thirst and desire is part of our human condition. What differs matured from immature, primitive from advanced, zombies from fans is how much we can control and direct those drives. Sometimes that means we sacrifice something now to gain something better or avoid more loss in the future

Examples of Zombie behavior:

 

sorry I haven't indexed the whole general thread for more relevant post about this topic, but to keep the topics work, here some link about Zombies in particular. I used search function to find them.

keyword : Zombie
2012 Jan 18 : latest discussions about Zombie
viewtopic.php?f=46&t=4749&p=643825&hilit=zombie#p643825
2012 Dec 28 : in reaction to Ghaida blackmailing case
viewtopic.php?f=46&t=4749&p=633895&hilit=zombie#p633895
2012 Nov 13 : in reaction to Jak Japan Matsuri incident
viewtopic.php?f=46&t=4749&p=618205&hilit=zombie#p618205
2012 Sep 21 : Zombie gallery - Dahsyat RCTI
viewtopic.php?f=46&t=4749&p=608268&hilit=zombie#p608268
2012 Sep 09 : The first time the term 'zombie' is mentioned in the general thread, at the Opening Day of JKT48 Theatre. That means the term must have been around before that day.
viewtopic.php?f=46&t=4749&p=597070&hilit=zombie#p597070

Suspected zombie behaviour: Chant Circle
viewtopic.php?f=46&t=4749&p=617975&hilit=chant+circle#p617975

other behaviors that may harm the girls and other fans either physically or psychologically

 

those people who did the circle chant said that they do t so they can watched their belogings

btw what should we talk next? how to prevent and pressed this Zombie behavior?

 

Circle chant(-)+taking care of their belonging(-)+watching their idol(+)?
How very.. confusing?

Spoiler

To prevent these kinds of 'fans', ideally i would use 'Task Force' to monitor these so-called 'fans'.
Also, some communication networks and preparations is necessary to prevent their movement.
From what i see, these 'zombies' are suspiciously organized, though..
They know what can be stopped and what can't be stopped.
They carefully laid their presence so that they can easily avoid most trouble.

#1. They would use JKT fans' attribute. It'll be very hard to track them even if they're being reprimanded even by official/security. They can easily spread themselves among another fans and regroup at certain points. I think their 'equipments' and 'movement' indicate several-step planning beforehand.

#2. Some 'Task Force' is necessary to counter this, several team of at least three-man cell should be spread at show's location. One for visual recon, one in charge for communication(reporting their current situation to chain of command and one for 'bodyguard' task.
Must also have JOT's approval and JOT must also be informed beforehand.
Without JOT's approval, these act are practically no different from zombies.

#3. First priority is to prevent. There's no smoke without fire. Report a sign of suspicious behaviour. If possible, report to security.

#4. Another 'unit' to prevent these zombie from Demachi act. It is only a backup plan, though. If there is true security force assigned for member's security, the only thing to watch is zombie's surprise attack.

#5. Lastly, even with all these over-the-top preparations
if zombie still somehow persist, it can only be concluded that their true intention is to smeared JKT's name.


Man, i feel stupidly paranoid..

They care more for their own belonging and their selfish circle chant.. what a way to waste one's time..

 

well , can someone give me the definition about these "zombies" ?

i always define them in every way they act , furiously following members and calling their name berserkly
and of course doing a shameful manners like touching members's body

talking about idol and fans , to the extent , the fans will always do what they can to keep a distance with their idol. maybe a groupie was born from idea like that
and since 48fam is giving you many chance to contact with your idols , it becomes more serious and vulnerable

and IMHO these zombies are only un-educated people and maybe have some problems with their brain

how to prevent and supressed zombie behaviour ?
well, people are supposed not to be prevented but to be educated

if you have some gut you tell them yourself , not babbling in the back and do nothing

should we have a mass discussion ? yes we do , but those zombies are only a small group who has no knowledge and mostly appears on some free live events.

afterall , it depends on everyone's point of view .
there is not a instituion to make an indicator how good are you as a fan
and that resulting , "we" , as the good people/fans and those zombies are both JKT48's fans

yes we should tell them how to be a good fans

btw thanks for the people who made this issue brighter , espescially toomuchidea and kagetora. we need more people like you.

 

I don't think the task force will affect anything
some people has tried by scolding them, by telling them that it was not right. But the zombies are saying things like "Arrogant", "Bossy" and stuff. I think they only will listen the fans or well respected fans around (Sepuh, Skyman..)

They are educated and #IMHO from middle class

The only problem is their over reaction and behavior

They presume their Oshi as their girlfriend. When a male that acted as a host or a male musician that was their friends "seduce" them or was purposefully hug them to tease the fans, the fans will take it seriously by mentioning that poor guy while bashing them

Just look at the most recent one, when someone spread a gossip about Cowboy Junior's Bastian confessed love to Cindy. There's a lot of people who mentioned this kid (14 years old, i think) on twitter and bashed him

*even when i was discussing about that controversial Mova twitter, a zombie butted in and say that i was "haughty"

Btw here's the pic of Zombie's gathering on the "nobar"

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/ ... 3686_n.jpg

 

I should highlight this point since initially I was reluctant to use term 'zombie' that discriminate one caste of fans from the other. There should be no caste in our fandom. Nevertheless, I accept this term eventually to indicate certain level of behaviour that potentially harmful to the members and the whole fandom.

I will try to compile a zombie profiling later if I have another free time in front of my computer. But I believe 'brutal' is one good term to include in that profiling materials.

added : since no one posted after this I simply edit it with some thought that came while I was AFK

I made it in points so that we can point out which point we are agree or disagree so that it will be easier to modify and helpful to better our understanding.

1 Zombies is a primitive level of fans

Spoiler

- Thus, fans is an evolved version of zombie
- It is unheard of a fan that devolved into zombie. It is more likely to term the fans that show symptoms of zombie behavior as addicted, obsessed, sick than to term them as devolved
- We all inherit some zombie DNA. We can still go crazy by a wink from Shania or Nabilah. Or get literally blown by hurricane if Ve ever throw us a kiss blow (Has it happened before? since I can imagine that happen. If she haven't do it, she'd better do it before - for instance - Mayuyu do, or the title hurricane will be given to Mayuyu). But at least we have some level of control of such craziness

2 Zombies don't respect the borderline; fans do

Spoiler

The word 'fans' is derived from the word 'fanatics', which in turn derived from the word 'fane', 'fanum' (Latin) that means holy ground, temple, sanctuary. The term fanatics have been used by the Roman Legion while dealing with some people that outrageously defend their holy ground (I can't remember clearly where I read that, perhaps in Julius Caesar's Gallic War)
- Zombies desecrate the holy ground; fans protect it
- This 'holy ground' thing points at one distinguishing principles: a fan knows the borderline when they should adjust their behaviour as they enter their holy ground (temple, shrine, theatre) or face the persons that are bound to the activities in those sites. Zombies don't (Somehow, previous reference to Roman civilization make me begin to associate 48Members with the Vestal Virgins, or Miko)(please bear in mind that the term 'holy' is an allegory from previous reference of the term 'fans'. I am not trying to start a cult LOL)

3. Zombies prefers to follow their drive than reason

Spoiler

3a. are always hungry
- It is their basic drive: to gain something they don't have, without paying proper price. Ask Ask Ask are all they do.
-- Perhaps that explain why most Zombies sighting were reported in free live events, or anything with low budget and less restriction
-- Trust me, it doesn't sound like Leonidas in 300 (film) "Give them nothing, but take from them everything"

4 Zombies prefer to maximize damage to the other party than to minimize it to get what they want

Spoiler

4a Zombies use raw force
- act in crowd is one version of it to minimize their loss from the probability being caught and deemed guilty while maximize their chance for gaining regardless of the other party's consent
- scolding, trash-talking, cyber-bullying, using profane languages, cry-babying and whatever immature cyber behaviour is another version of it in psychological spectrum
4b or when they think they can do it without being punished
- sneaking behaviour, either in real life or in cyber space is part of it

5 Zombies are lack of self consciousness

Spoiler

- Hunger overrides common sense. When you are hungry, you want to eat. You don't want any reasoning not to
- 'I always right, you always wrong' attitude
- Hunger, thirst and desire is part of our human condition. What differs matured from immature, primitive from advanced, zombies from fans is how much we can control and direct those drives. Sometimes that means we sacrifice something now to gain something better or avoid more loss in the future

Geez there are many thing I want to write but I haven't enough time. I have read previous posts, and I see some valuable points here and there. I will updating this particular post next time.

 

indeed a nice and detail profiling kagetora , it should be noted onto this thread
and you really pay attention on this zombies thingy

so zombies are always there in every fandom rite ?

talking abt prevention , i only know at AKB's theatre that you will be get rid from your seat by the security staff if you make a big ruckus cmiiw

toomuchidea
i dont see anyone in this JKT fandom could be called sepuh/skyman
i see and tag them whose have more experience in any 48 sister group.


OOT:
there's an event called zombie walk next week and likely i will be joining the event
i guess if you guys can attend

 

Can you tell me how these zombies can get close to the girls? Are there no guards, fences or similar?

 

from what i know,
some places where the girls perform has a minimum level of guards, most of them don't use fences, so
it's free for the fans to get close to their idols-not only the performing girls, but another singer/dancer.

in this case, the incident happened when the girls finished their performance, the girls had to go to their tent/restroom to wait for their next performance. on their way to the tent, zombies started to run toward the girls, pushing the crowd brutally.

that's some thing i saw and red at a fanbase posts. [notme]

 

there was this event in Monas when a group of zombie managed to sneak inside (people said they don't have any tickets) and reached the girls tent

they are some people called so and well respected, by zombies especially

 

i want to share my opinion but my english...sorry before

Spoiler

first i see on main topic that zombie always ask without give anything,somehow it's sounds like me
but really, i know nothing about 48... [sweat]
and about zombie why dont make special trademark of true fans for example:hoodie.
so,when one of true fans try to talk with zombie,these zombie will know that this fans are not alone [sweat]
about preventing (demachi) maybe fans can pretend to "want to see their idol" while actually make a block
i know this is crazy but this what i can imagine

 

if it is so, then what is the use of fanbase leaders ?
fanbases-spreaded all over indonesia, and its leaders, they have responsibility
to manage their people. some fanbase i know has a good leader, he manages all
of the fanbase's activity.

basically, if a group of fanbase want to watch the girls live, the leader usually told his/her people
to regroup on a place before they head to the event where the girls gonna perform.

and that is kind of activity, which zomies don't like. zombies can't stand waiting and obeying the rule,
they usually disobey their leader's rules and do what they wanted to do.

and about making a hoodie, there's already something called Official Fans Club, right ?
the truth is, this "zombie" will never vanish if they still think about themselves, not caring another person.

 

ROFL, honestly, those "fan bases" serve no purpose other than their own profits.

----------

As for the "zombies" part: if they really get on your nerves, then tell them to stop if you meet them. But there's really no way to remove them completely, because to be honest, they can do whatever they want. However, there's of course limitations and you should always tell them to stop if they've crossed the line. If you don't tell them to stop right away, they won't.

 

not all of those fanbases look for profits, even if they do it for their own profit--as i said--some fanbase returns it with a good management of their fanbases. making it a trusted fanbase where the girls proud of it.
but i must admit, most fanbases are like what you just said, and that's where self-awareness is needed to fix this problem.

---------

i bet true fans already do that. but you know, some times later after the warning, zombies will try again and do it again. they're also good in sneaking out from the crowd and find a way to fulfill their needs.
they're just never stop.

 

lol agree
most fanbase just do what they want and didn't care about anything else
there's only a few few fanbase that actually did a pretty good job organizing it's member like the west java fanbase or kaskus48

 

those are 2 fanbase i was talking about in my post

 

karawang and makassar also did a wonderful job

 

whoa a new thread! I couldn't access the internet since the flood of Jakarta cause a blackout

hmm a zombie thread [think] well..zombified fans are really annoying both for the members and fans, and also sometimes the security staffs.
They even sometimes didn't put respect on their own oshi moreover to the other fans

Can I call a fan who shouts excessively in the theater a zombie? or the a fan who swings their lightstick excessively and hit other people's head?
I seldom watch JKT outside the theater, so I've never seen the zombie act outdoor [think]
But if we can do something to calm those zombies, I would be very happy for sure!

 

a friend of mine went to the theater, a zombie yelled too loud next to him
he tries to talk the guy to keep his voice down but he got scolded back