[GENERAL] The Sakurazaka46 / Keyakizaka46 Thread

They did add that this year will be a lot so who knows. Maybe we might be lucky to get some old songs

 

I mean with Akanen and Pechan, IIRC the former asked for something like what they ended up getting. If Aoi asked for something smaller, I think it would be granted, but anything like what Risa got, I don't think so

 

A "Monster" Sakamichi Fes!!! The thought has crossed my mind, as I'm sure it has for many fans and probably the members as well (specially the 1st geners).
I also love your idea of special/joint/unit songs. Why it hasn't happened all this time is a mystery to me.

 

LOL I even have a title ready for the first of such "joint songs"!
Reminding a successful "joint project" from my childhood (Aki-P is older than me, I'm sure he'll remember it, too! ) and making a typical "oji-san" pun/reference (the kind Aki-P too likes, ehm...), I'd go with:

"We Are The (IDOL) World"

(don't shoot me...)

 

Well, 10-15 years ago, AKB48 could have claimed that title. Nowadays, it basically belongs to Sakamichi.

 

I already said that Sakurazaka sold well for their day and for their concerts, so it doesn't explain why management is so hell-bent on still putting the two groups together. No matter how much Sakurazaka suffered (which is true and no one negates that) it doesn't compare to what Hiragana went through. And the truth is that there isn't much overlap between Hinatazaka and Sakurazaka fans, if anything there are more Hinatazaka fans who are also Nogi fans. Management is pushing this for no reason. Sakurazaka can do an outdoor festival on their own.

It also doesn't seem fair to Sakurazaka bc the summer outdoor festival thing was a Keyaki thing while Hiragana had Christmas (which is now HinaKuri). But now Hinatazaka has both Christmas and the outdoor festival. Why?

 

Yeah I somehow misunderstood your statement. So sorry. I do kinda agree with this. atm Sakuzaka has no particular outdoor festival. Hinata has hinakuri and now this. Mgmt probably has a plan for Sakuzaka maybe but we can't be sure given how they've treated the grp so far. No drama, no pushing, no outdoor festival. All other activities we're having is thanks to Aeon. Nothing but singles related from mgmt. It's amazing that even with all these unfairness, the members are gradually been scouted just to be part in TV shows like Tenchan passing audition to be in the drama and Karin chan being scouted from the Tour live to act in Azatokute

 

Having a festival about a historical idol group is different from calling a current idol group an evolved version of that historical idol group.

While you and I are free to have our own opinions, I think management and perhaps the girls themselves think that Sakurazaka should not have too much connection with Keyaki in the same way Hinatazaka makes reference to the Hiragana era all the time.

Hiragana was a story of endurance and hard work that led to eventually greatness. This + the era actually having good results is why Hinata mentions it quite a bit.

Kanji became dilapidated and later neglected. From Silent Majority until the release of Kuroi Hitsuji things looked great on the surface (and they were actually great in many ways) but the group was run in an unhealthy way which is why it couldn’t recover from the weird “stagnation” of activity following the 8th single.

Looking back on that all the time when Sakurazaka is still just sprouting (blossoming?), in the eyes of management, probably isn’t a good thing. Regardless of public opinion about each group, Sakurazaka deserves a chance at a fresh start instead of living with the weight of Keyaki on their backs. This was likely the whole point of the renaming in the first place.

Now I too think there should be a bit more remembrance. But in a manner in which history is honored, not trying to connect the two in the present. Nonetheless, I do find their (potential) reasoning and actual actions understandable. This is all I am saying.

Just personal opinions by the way. Not trying to “change” or “prove wrong” yours

I don’t think it could be said to be identical to Hinata. Keyaki was in a very poor state from awhile after the 8th single release until the end, Sakurazaka was a release/rescue from that poor state while Hinatazaka was taking something suffering and launching it the Moon (so to speak).

As I said above I think there should be more remembrance, but I don’t think considering Keyaki to “be” Sakura or Sakura to be a direct descendant of Keyaki works well.

For example, as part of a purpose-held memorial/celebration of Keyaki event, performing Keyaki songs would be fine. It could be held separately from W-Keyaki Fes once a year, and it would be Kanji and post-Hiragana songs with no participation from them (Hinata).

But performing them regularly as “Sakurazaka songs”? Hinata performs Hiragana songs as Hinata songs because it reminds them of the hard work and steadfastness of that era that led to Hinata. What are Sakura members supposed to think performing songs that come from a time when either a) they felt comfortable with the whole center situation and this led to them not challenging new things and working as hard as they could have* or b) that came from 2019-2020 when the group wasn’t even doing much and was in a pretty poor state, which led to members graduating and further lack of new challenges and growth as idols*? I personally don’t see it working out well.

Now what you were actually talking about was Sakura performing Keyaki songs “period” I think (no weird interpretations), but more regularly. I still think this doesn’t work because Sakura is not Keyaki (in a literal sense, not a historical/spiritual/image/and so on sense) and thus they can’t perform “another group”’s songs.

Again, these are just my personal opinions.

*we know these things based on interviews from during and after that time

 

I thought this was made clear in most of the activities the girls do. @SunlitZelkova if you've been following the group, you will see in some of their songs, they add some very tiny bits of keyaki elements. Boku no dilemma is the most obvious one. Also you just have to look at the group and see that they aren't different from their former selves. They just have grown, physically and fictionally. I said this earlier on when they rebranded. There's a reason they said 'rebrand' instead of 'rename'. If they used 'rename', then we can say they are a different group, cos they definitely don't want anything to do with it. Why do you think most fans were not happy with Hinata singing hiragana songs? Cos they used 'rename'. Once you chose to rename yourself, it means you want to differ yourself from your former self.

Now 'rebrand' on the other hand is just associating a new image or act or appearance of a product, which if you follow Sakuzaka, you will realise they are just doing that. Concept-wise, the girls have grown and are now responsible. No more angry rebellious teenagers. So their evolvement into responsible adults is being the rebrand Sakurazaka. They are continuing their keyaki work but with a new image: a more adult-like concept. They have severally said this in interviews, etc so i kinda don't understand why you keep insisting it's a new group. Of course, like everything rebranded, they would have to be new but new doesn't inherently mean different.
Fans calling mgmt out for not making them sing keyaki songs is very right cos hypothetically they have to. That is the only part mgmt have failed at. So like @Philosophy Senpai and most fans as well, I don't see them different from keyaki. Just like the girls say, I too see them as a more refined, adult version of Keyaki. They do crazy dances but have beautiful choreos too. They still sing songs abt society but has love songs as well as self-awareness songs. They sure aren't shying away from keyaki. Whether they like it or not, they are forever linked to that. The only issue is with mgmt here

 

@SunlitZelkova: Of course I get the spirit at which you've replied to me and your opinions are more than welcome. You see, I am reluctant to admit some things due to my extreme love for Keyakizaka... However, there are so many things that you've said which reflect the truth: That painful aknowledgement of the downward spiral, the "journey into introversion" the group has suffered. You've expressed things that I find too painful to accept about Kanji. We also fully agree about the perseverence of Hiragana and the positive "karma" they accumulated that has been redeemed into the succesful (and so active) group of today.

But I thing we have to admit that the period 2019-2020 was not so bad at all: The song production after Kuroi Hitsuji and before (and including) Dare ga sono kane... was IMHO of top quality and the group supported these songs adequately. They even went so far as to offer us "complete new views" of older established performances: Mii-chan's Ambivalent was superior to the original IMHO.

The rebranding had a specific goal and I sincerely do not want to get this topic out of the deep refrigeration once more... It's dead and buried already.

My point-of-view about this "rebranding" is the same as that of @Iamyoung: A product is "rebranded" after the need arises to offer the same product with a different "marketing mix" (label, scemantics, price, promotion etc etc). The product has remained the same however (even if you had to remove one ingredient <ahem...> and replaced it with other(s)).

What actually @Iamyoung says is the great irony regarding the fate of Keyakizaka right from it's birth as an idol concept. It's what I had writen in a PM to one of our fellow forum comrades:

Spoiler: Am I asking for a new Keyaki?

Keyakizaka as it was, it had a predetermined (almost determinist) future - and therefore termination time...! It's own image... The image of these rebellious girls, preaching their wish for freedom of expression, fear of suicide and the world of adults, nostalgia of the elusive teen-age years, the years with the seifuku, detestment of the sexual harassment in trains and the dark side of love and relationships, already had an expiration date: The date of adulthood and the blooming of the young, mature woman, the office-lady, the career-seeker, the model, the actress, the public person. Therefore, Keyakizaka dominated into an "area in the market" that was describing a PHASE OF TRANSITION. They came, they occupied this area, filled the gap and soon had to move on as they were aging themselves into adulthood.

On the contrary, Nogizaka is occupying an area in the market that praises and describes the essence of elegance and femininity: Icons, notions that are motionless and timeless. Hinatazaka the playfulness and mischievousness of the girly psyche: no matter if this stems from a child or from an adult woman. Their brands convey values that don't have to change and evolve as their conveyors do...

So why "a new Keyaki?"

Keyaki's concept is now an empty gap in the idol landscape... As far as I know, there is no other idol group carrying this dark, rebellious concept AND with members at the proper age to support it. I know that by insisting to see Sakurazaka performing their old songs I become so schizophrenic as to ask for an office-lady to dress-up as a heavy-metal fan just to go to a heavy-metal concert.

But then we have to face the dilemma: Either we let all this repertoire pass into oblivion or ...: Maybe someone needs to re-invent Keyakizaka... We need a new group... Sakurazaka own their history but they look like an office-lady dressed-up as a heavy-metal fan just to go to a heavy-metal concert. So what if they let the younger girls that enter the group (3rd gen, 4th gen and so on) be the instrument for performing these classic songs?

I'm just wondering aloud...

 

^Actually it's not that difficult. Keyaki is simply a darker, rebellious, and somewhat androgynous version of Hinatazaka. And there seems to be no other idol group carrying this flag. That is what makes it ever more valuable. Maybe it should be reincarnated as some new 46 group.

 

I keep thinking too that we might have it in the new gen that may apply for the group. They would be young so it might fit them and as they grow, they carry the responsibilities too. I might be dreaming but this would be nice to see lol

 

By the way, for members that don't appear for some time such as techi or go on hiatus like mona, do they still get their monthly salary ?

 

Making subtle tributes and discussing the past as their own activities (even if a member is on SokoSaku as a Sakura member, they can freely discuss Keyaki and things from that time) are very different from performing Keyaki songs themselves. That is all I personally think doesn’t work.

Yes, but the group (like the name/structure/activities/image/etc., not the members themselves) still has importance.

Can you link these interviews and provide some articles describing the “rebranding”?

The Sakurazaka website itself says “改名”. This is what Hinata’s “renaming” was.

https://sakurazaka46.com/s/s46/page/about?ima=0000&link=ROBO004

I have not heard of this “rebranding”, nor am I aware of the members mentioning it directly.

I’m not saying there is no connection or anything. But the level of connectivity you describe doesn’t seem necessary for the present IMO.

The past can be remembered. Sakura certainly can be considered a descendant of Keyaki in some form. But performing Keyaki songs regularly basically makes them Sakura songs. When Hinata performs DareTobe, they don’t refer to it as a “Hiragana (Keyaki) song”, they call of their song. The same will occur if Keyaki songs were to be performed regularly and I think that would create more problems than merits it possesses.

As I said before this is just my personal opinion.

I don’t think that history is endangered or will ever disappear. If anything, I think leaving Keyaki as it was would be better than trying to bring it back, lest the newcomers tarnish the style (think American animated shows, like SpongeBob or The Simpsons, that were praised at first, but never ended and gradually became lower and lower in quality). Sakura’s sort of “Keyaki-lite” style that is shown at times works but I would be apprehensive about bringing back “heavy Keyaki”.

That said, what you suggest about later gens performing songs could actually be feasible, but only insofar as a lot of the fans from that era may leave the fandom. Can’t have bad memories brought back if no one really remembers them! And say, three or five years down the line, the group will be doing who knows what and there will be more opportunities to do something like that (bringing back Keyaki stuff fully). Whereas Sakurazaka is still trying to run and there could be negative effects right now.

As for everything else you wrote, I don’t really have a response beyond “my personal opinion differs”. I shall agree to disagree.

P.S. Once again these are all merely personal opinions. I feel a need to make this clear as unfortunately it isn’t too obvious these days on the Internet.

 

Oh actually every one knows this. It's nothing new. 'Rebrand' is the word the official site used. Unfortunately, the official news on the keyaki site is deleted or something cos i can't find it but this article does mention it
https://realsound.jp/2015/12/post-5509.html
I hardly speak japanese but the word used here is 'リブランド' which translate as 'rebrand'. It's right in the title. From my little search, rename in japanese is 'リネーム'. So there's one. As for member's interviews etc, I currently have none in mind but if I remember correctly, they mentioned them in mags and on special tv programs. If this is not enough for you, I wanna say that after the rebrand, the fan page for Sakurazaka 'sakucentral' on twitter really took time to explain the word for us. Unfortunately I can't really find that tweet, but if you followed them during those times you wld have known of this. Misunderstandings like what is happening now is why they took time to make us understand that the word used was 'rebrand' and not 'rename'. I didn't expect to explain this cos almost all the fans know this, so this is what I can give now. Hopefully someone can add more so you wld e aware of it

As for what is on the Saku page, it still corresponds to what I said in my previous post. A company can rebrand and rename but it still doesn't change their status. So I presume that is what the twitter account is saying, that it renamed itself as Sakurazaka. It's simple, Keyakizaka rebranded and is renamed as Sakurazaka

EDIT: I had to search and found some tweets from Sakucen mentioning the rebrand.

https://twitter.com/sakuzakacentral/status/1322824720593547264

Also another one talking abt the continuing of captainship
https://mobile.twitter.com/sakuzakacentral/status/1346022203612135424

This tweet from 48 kingdom also mentioned it
https://mobile.twitter.com/48gtalk/status/1284006811301896192

More evidence: this is from reddit

https://www.reddit.com/r/Keyakizaka...fter/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

 

@Iamyoung Thanks, but this still isn’t really adding up. The Japanese article you linked is from 2015 and is about Keyaki and how they would create their own image (not literal image, as there is the Japanese word イメージ too, but given what the article talks about this is what I would interpret “ブランド” to mean), as it predates Silent Majority.

The tweets you mention are entirely in English and unofficial, but they don’t seem to indicate what you claim either. In the tweet about Yuuka remaining as captain, a screenshot of her blogpost is there, and you will see it uses the “改名” I mentioned earlier. This is the same word used for Hinatazaka’s transformation. I can’t accept the other tweets as evidence because they don’t provide the original Japanese source with the translation.

改名 means renamed (名 is name), but whether it is renaming or rebranding in English isn’t really my point. It is the same word used to describe Hinatazaka’s transformation, and thus it did indeed have the same weight as Hinata’s and it would not make sense to continue performing Keyaki songs in a casual manner due to the issues associated with those songs.

On the other hand, a proper return of Keyaki content could be possible down the line as I described above-

Regarding Sakura performing Keyaki songs, these are my personal opinions and you are entitled to yours.

But it appears to be a fact that Sakurazaka “renamed” in the exact same manner as Hinatazaka. The reasons may have been different but the process was basically identical.

 

Topic closed I guess

Latest news: Seki will be having a ceremonial pitch on the 12th

https://twitter.com/sakuzakacentral/status/1531891662250573825?t=Q85XwFmpk-KwQgIoTCrvOg&s=19

Let me just voice out how happy I am that she's getting more exposure. tbf compared to the early days, they are finally getting outside jobs. Hoping for more

 

Once again, for members that don't appear for some time such as techi or go on hiatus like mona, do they still get their monthly salary ?

 

I personally have no idea lol. I think it works like any other job. Mgmt would have some sorta agreement with them. Contract still there but may have their pay on hold. Same may be with members going on hiatus. It all depends on whatever agreement they have

 

https://twitter.com/katamiraiwo/status/1533309911907565578 3rd ki is basically confirmed?


also https://twitter.com/sakuzakacentral/status/1533285829086420993 aoi graduation!