Event / Concert 37th Single Senbatsu Sousenkyo (2014/06/07)

You don't need to narrow down the number of girls you want to vote for, not all of us are dedicated to one girl only! I myself voted for 5 girls this year. A big majority of my votes went to Nattsun (I saved up all year for this, one can say I powervoted her this year), I gave 22 votes to Ricchan, 22 votes to Annin, and I gave 1 symbolic vote to both Okada Nana and Tatsuya Makiho because this is my first time voting for them, and I can feel their are new oshis in the making.

 

Why so much discussion? It isn't JUST a pity vote, if anything, like Silenka said, it's solidarity. Hell, there's a project going on to thank the staff member over on tumblr, so people are viewing it as just another way to show support and concern. Who cares if it is pity either? People vote for all types of reasons - they pay to vote, so let them vote for the reasons they want. And in all honesty, I highly doubt the extra votes will make such a huge difference - that would be wotas going further in response, rather than concern from other fans. I doubt the girls would be angry for those type of votes - they would see it as care from the fans and be happy for the support they were given. If they jumped huge amount of places and then dropped again next year, sure, they'd realise how much was "pity", but again, I doubt that will be the case. (And really, you still can't say it was just a lack of pity votes that would make them drop, since you need to factor in people power voting other girls, other pushes etc).

 

I am saying there is no inherent normative structure as to judge the reasons other people vote with, which is what you claimed by saying "The idea of sousenkyo is to reward girls for something they have done and achieved individually over the months." This is not, both historically and economically, what the elections are about.

You are now leaving the actual issue- normative values for individual votes. My argument was that you are fundamentally wrong in claiming "The idea of sousenkyo is to reward girls for something they have done and achieved individually over the months." By stating this you have tried to claim that this should be the governing value regarding how a person votes. What you are doing in the statement above is looking at the phenomena of the rise and fall of a member's vote level and attempting to create a causal explanation. While the actions of any member may have some impact on the number of votes they receive, the election does not set forth a normative standard whereby votes not based upon the past months' behaviors are somehow morally suspect or invalid. I do not vote based on what anyone has achieved or not in the past months and I would suggest my criteria for voting is not at all at odds with the idea of the election or what it is about.

This does not at all logically follow. Liking something on facebook may be an act of compassion or consideration, but this does not necessarily lead to the conclusion of thinking the act is political in any substantive fashion (but it might be- I am completely uninterested in the argument).

Oshima Yuuko directly declared at an election that each vote was an expression of love for the member involved. This merely indicates I am not alone in this perception. My argument is that nothing in the nature of the election precludes this from being a valid normative standard by which to judge one's votes as valid or important. More importantly this love, if it is love, is not premised on "something they have done and achieved individually over the months." Thus, for Oshima and myself voting based on love is a valid normative standard and is not at all contradicted by the "idea" of the elections.

I am not encouraging anyone to do anything other than to reject your improper normative standard that claims votes based on sympathy for those attacked are somehow invalid because "The idea of sousenkyo is to reward girls for something they have done and achieved individually over the months." Your idea that other people's motivations for voting are somehow improper or invalid is all that I am taking issue with because the very basis for your argument is not based in the actual theory or practice of the election, as pointed out in my previous post.

My key point is this-

There is nothing inherent in the election in theory or practice that provides an inherent normative basis for arguing anyone's motivations for voting are inherently flawed and antithetical to what the election is about.

This point, at odds with the claims of your previous post, leads to an important conclusion:

It is equally valid to vote for member based on something that happened to them that was random and beyond their control.

This conclusion you explicitly denied was a valid reason to vote and your argument, such as it was, in supporting this normative judgment, was invalid because it was based on a faulty premise- namely the nature of the election process.

I have at no time, in my previous post, stated what motivated me to vote as I did. I have not voted for those who were attacked. I do not care to discuss why I voted the way I did. But, I will state that my votes have nothing to do with the normative standard you provided and I argue that my votes are just as valid as yours and are completely in accordance with the idea of the election as such because the idea of the election provides absolutely no basis by which to create a normative standard by which to judge motivations for voting.

 

This is what you need to take away from his post.

For me, there is just you and your empathy for the girl you are voting for.
There is no normative standard regulating the validity of anyone's votes.

 

Hmm .. she looks diff when I googled her. Must of just been a really good pic.

Wow, that's a lot of votes. Wish I could give more but this year I decided to be more selective. If I were to give a vote to every girl I would like to support, I'll be broke.

 

Thank you, Todd, for two well thought out, argued, and presented posts defending your opinion, without the emotionalism and oshimen bias that pervades many posts on this forum.

 

I just wish we could stop talking about the Kawaei/Anna thing. I'm sure they want nothing more than to move on, and we should do the same.

Do your voting for whomever you'd like and for whatever reason you choose.

 

It's hard not to talk about it when the after effects are resonating so hard. No more high touch. No more people getting to watch the show in the theater lobby. A freaking fence thing between the audience and the stage...

If the attacker's goal was to do damage to AKB he succeeded, because their very concept (idols you can meet) is being destroyed.

 

They're actually doing that!?

 

I'm planning on going to some stages when I attend school in Aichi next year. I've never been to a stage before, so I won't know what the previous experience was like, either.

 

Exactly. I just can't say better than this. I think it's sad that the girls try their best to move on, but the fans (sadly the international community) just doesnt want to get over it.

Furthermoe, I honestly do not understand why @rka is keep arguing as if "one vote is more justifiable than another", or as if "the reason why a person vote for a girl will define whether you are a better person or not". That's so unitelligent despite you giving basis of why you prefer one kind of vote to another.
Everyone has the right to vote. If you dont want to vote for XXX because of a scandal or one time event, so be it. But dont judge other people if they choose to do so. I dont vote for the two though I do symphatize with them. I dont vote for Sae because "Sae has been kicked out to SNH as some sae fans claim". But if anyone want to vote anybody because of any reason, I dont have the right to judge them.

Stop over-analyzing anything. We are following and supporting the members and the group, not the politics

 

The strength of AKB groups appeal was the connectivety to fans. If that is list on ling term it will massively impact the group. What appeal other than pictures would buyong their CDs bring? For international dans not much will change. But the domestic market is sure to suffer. How much impact will AkiP allow on sales for security reasons?

 

rka, you keep editing your posts....

Earlier, I had written a response to your first two posts, but then saw that you wanted to stop beating the dead horse, so I didn't post it. So I will respect your wishes here as well.

 

I sympathize with rka. I'm voting for Aya Shibata and may still be able to get some more votes for her before the election starts, but now I'm wondering if I'm wasting my time since there's a chance she'll be pushed out due to what has been discussed (not that I fully believe it will happen). Some new spots have opened up, and people drop out of contention every year, so I would be pretty heartbroken if something like this kept her out, and maybe with the competition in coming years, left outside for good. Akari Suda at least got in, but Ayachan doing the same would be on that level too.

 

New official video.

"【選抜総選挙×フジテレビ】「第6回 AKB48選抜総選挙」2014速報　AKB48紹介VTR / …" on YouTube

if the video does not show watch the video here

 

Wow, If nothing else, when this kind of accidents happen, people's sensitivity or insensitivity 'shines' in its best. Let's be better humans than saying that moral support is pointless, pls.. This opinion backed by whatever argument, will remain as very insensitive and wrong. At least don't impose it to others.

 

So people who don't agree with your opinion, can't read.. fascinating conclusion. As I said, not your arguments are the problem, but the opinion you're backing up with them and the way you are imposing it here like it's the only right one. You are the only one with the need to explain himself over and over again. Just hope you'll listen to your own request and stop with this topic already.

 

Wow, that escalated quickly.

While I do not agree with rka, I appreciate it that at least, he explains his views quite well.

I can imagine he only said, "You might want to train your reading capabilities before you post nonsense." out of exasperation from people who are reacting on snippets of his view that he had already explained from several posts.

I can imagine it can be annoying when people are still arguing with you on points you've already clarified.

In the end, from what I understand from his post, he simply does not agree with the idea of voting for iriyama and kawaei out of pity, solidarity or compassion.

Personally, I go with the opinion of others that one can vote for anyone for whatever reason they want.