Event / Concert 37th Single Senbatsu Sousenkyo (2014/06/07)

In some parts of the world, it is considered inappropriate for women to leave the house without wearing a burqa. They could ask the same question: What reason is there for a woman to show her face to a male who is not in her immediate family, other than to be sexual? They would frown upon the dress of the average US or Japanese woman. Some of them may even consider it pornographic. Yet we in the West may consider it an infringement of women's rights.

Your comfort level on the moral scale is a personal one. Who are we to say that those who require a burqa are wrong? Or that Japanese gravure is wrong?

 

I can understand from some of the examples given how it may appear inappropriate to someone, the pictures come off a bit showy for what would otherwise be considering something more laid back and fun. It's really a matter of how seriously you take seeing them act out I guess. To me when someone younger in the group does gravure, I just sort of take it that they're an idol and are doing things to help shape their adult selves. Another way to look at it would be that the concept of how AKB does gravure (in many cases) is that they are pushing the growth process on them at an earlier age, and you either find it amusing or offensive.

Of course, doing gravure isn't the most important thing to be focusing on, but I can see the exposure (especially in some of the magazines I picked up) as something that has dominated that particular industry, where even if it's marketed as AKB or whatever, there is the gravure industry itself sort of tied-in with it now.

 

Oddly enough I actually have more issues with young girls singing sexual songs than with gravure. Jurina aged 11 performing Innocence, for example (even if she wasn't allowed to actually sing the words!). Or currently Team K has two 13 year olds singing Dokugemo. 14 year old Acchan, 11 year old Masuyama Kayano singing Dear My Teacher. Team 8 are so young and they are singing these songs currently about teachers kissing students, and Skirt Hirari with the little jump so the whole audience can glimpse up their skirts and go "ooh ooh".

Gravure is just pictures, and there is at least some attempt to cover up the younger ones slightly more. Even so it does bother me. But, the children singing sexy songs and making sexy faces on stage I find far more disturbing.

 

@Lindsay Skirt hirari is interesting with some self censor. The song is often performed and the audience can look up under the skirts, but not the video viewers. The cameras are always focus on other things just then. At least at newer videos.

 

It's very hot in Japan right now and some areas are still practicing setsuden... Obviously they're just trying to keep cool!

 

First, wash your mind of any preconceptions about sexuality, age, and what's right and wrong that your particular society has taught you. Society tends to contradict itself fairly often in the most illogical ways - for example, that a woman seen in a bikini on the beach is okay, but a woman seen in her underwear (that looks identical) is somehow not okay.

Now that you've filtered out all the bs rules and regulations, what do you REALLY think? Not what society has taught you all your life, but what you actually perceive about girls in bikinis.

To me, they're just...girls in bikinis. Nudity is actually the most natural state in the world. We are born into it and we only put on clothes in the first place to protect physically sensitive areas from the elements. Similarly, as smart and 'civilized' as we make ourselves out to be, we're still just animals with all the instincts that go with being an animal, including the instinct to spread our genetic code around (here is where the 'you're allowed to buy guns to make war on each other but not to see an underage girl in a bikini whaaat' stuff comes in - some societies repress certain instincts more than others).
All of this sexual prudishness has been artificially taught to us - it's not a natural instinct to cover ourselves from others' eyes, nor is it a natural instinct to repress our sexual desires. But since we are taught by society things like "viewing someone of X completely arbitrary age sexually is wrong" and "looking at a girl naked is wrong"... the more indoctrinated you are into this viewpoint, the more likely you are to have a problem with gravure, no matter what the outfit/pose is.

Some of us choose not to view things the way (Western) society in general views them. We're okay with gravure and see no problem with it, and to the people who don't think twice about what they've been spoon-fed about sexuality and nudity all their lives, this stance probably seems disgusting. I advise you to get off your high horse of artificial morality and remember that we're all animals, barely evolved past bonobos (who, by the way, have no-holds-barred recreational group sex alllll the time).

Note that I am not trying to condone child porn or to go around willy-nilly having sex with minors. I'm merely suggesting that this stuff is NOT as big a deal as a lot of people are making it out to be, and some should really just chill out about it. As long as the girl is sexually mature (different for everyone but comes around ~13 or so I think) and consenting to take pictures like this, I can't see a problem with it.

 

Everything @Silenka said. *applause*

And... the day you see Sakura, Miki, Makiho and the like doing something like this, you can worry.
AKB's gravure is very toned down compared to what you can find out there.

 

that's a difficult debate we have here... maybe love ban rule level? lol

There's limits to suggestive/gross pose on swimsuit/gravure photoshoot. To me, AKB didn't go overboard at all.

But if it was asked before, then yes the senbatsu swimsuit are not at all appealing to me. But that's just my taste.

As someone who support HKT48, i would feel embarassed to see nakomiku in swimsuit/underwear, so i can understand people's point that sometime AKB are going off board.

MMmh maybe i need more time to think about it. But this conversation is legit. We should just avoid extreme reasoning like sakura swimsuit => child porn (especially because i love her photoshoot)

 

It's not yet to the point of having it's own thread so I guess it's fine?

 

If they were teenage boys in swim trunks, would this debate even happen? It seems the underlying issue is the same issue that lurks under the surface in nearly every US debate these days: women aren't allowed to show off their bodies... at least, until a man wants her to. I think a woman should wear what makes her feel comfortable and beautiful. If my precious baby Sayanee wants to wear a tankini and shorts for a beach photoshoot, she will still be sexy and gorgeous. If Miki wants to wear bikinis for a pv, who are you to judge? If it makes her feel good about herself, isn't that all that matters?

 

Is this a video? If so, is there a link pls? Thank you

 

No, I highly suspect it would not. Double standards and all that Bull Sh**. As for the rest of your post. So much truth.

 

This all makes me think about a response Aki-P gave about the content of some of AKB's songs years ago, where he answered in an interview that the adult subject matter of some of them is a reflection of how girls do think about being adults, even if people are uncomfortable with wanting to approach it. A lot of things involving this group seem to push those buttons, and allowing these girls to act a bit more mature than what people are used to isn't something they are naive about, I know when I was in high school that being an adult was when you could be cool or do whatever you want. There are a lot of trappings to being younger, especially with wanting to feel beautiful or comfortable with yourself, and that's a matter of preference.

 

More than anything, I think that people were offended by the overwhelming tackiness of the outfits than the actual photos themselves. I don't find the photos sexual and I don't find their poses sexual, it's just that bedazzled latex swimsuits are an insult to fashion. I know AKB has been doing the same shoot (more or less) for years but in my time on this forum, I don't think it's become much of a talking point until now.

When the stylist goes for a "bawdy strip club chic" look... those are the responses you'll get from some people.

 

Definitely, if said underage boys were being used as means to sexually appeal to a certain demographic.

 

I honestly don't know why this topic has even come up, considering gravure has always been apart of the 48 group. This isn't the first time that younger members have done a bikini (well, tankini) gravure!

 

Happens all the time. And no, I have never seen a debate/argument/rant/anything negative about it. And I get around on the nets.

 

Men don't care about that regardless of the model's gender, and women are too busy fangirling over them, that's why
(ok, that was a joke)

 

Just because its not argued about doesn't mean that it is not problematic. Should we ignore every bad thing in the world just because people are not talking about it?