[GENERAL] The Sakurazaka46 / Keyakizaka46 Thread

Lurker passing by, but I'd like to present an opinion in favor of a rebrand/name change

For me I think the image associated with Keyaki has become a restriction at this point. In Keyakake Morita mentioned how she didn't particularly like being called cute when performing and it kind of made me think how she's chasing after the image and concept of Keyakizaka instead of allowing her uniqueness to shine. Ideally wouldn't it be better if the performance showcased the strength of the girls instead of (over)emphasizing expressiveness and artistic expression? To further add to this I think Sugai and Kobayashi's approach to being center wouldn't be how it is now without the precedent of Hirate's center or if it didn't influence Keyakizaka's brand to the extent that it did. In contrast though, I think Koike did exceptionally well since she centered Ambivalent in the online live as if it was originally a Koike center song. If Keyakizaka was ever to continue as it is then I believe how she did it was a great way of doing it.

Additionally, I think plenty of the girls wouldn't be able to take a leading role if Keyakizaka is kept as it is. This is particularly true for 1st gen girls who joined before Keyaki established its brand and whose strengths don't quite match the current image of the group. I'm sure they're more than capable to actually pull off a strong Keyaki performance if they tried but I think girls like Uemura, Rika, Sato, Aoi or maybe even Seki would have to go against their personality and/or looks just to do so.

Lastly, although it's just Aki-P writing all the lyrics for all these groups and such, why is it that I feel like there's going to be a riot if he gave them a song that's not about mental health issues or social issues or some sort of very deep heavy subject? While other groups can just pick up a song that was probably just written up on a whim after Aki-P came across a word or idea that clicked, Keyakizaka probably needs a more specific flash of inspiration to come to him. It's a lot harder for Keyakizaka to experiment or casually release singles, which in turn limits their opportunities to promote on music shows and such. Being a unique and different group is good, but it shouldn't be forced at the cost of opportunities for growth or worse at the cost of the members themselves like what's been happening based on the withdrawal and graduations.

Anyway just some opinions I wanted to unload. Back to lurking for me cause I don't understand why there's so much friction between the fans of sister groups (and even just members) and I don't want to be involved in that since I like all of them.

 

@Kihseki Hi and welcome. Why a lurker, we need more people from the outside to get "inside" and speak their opinions. So let me just poke you a little and hopefully you may return to this forum with a new post.

I will be brief. I'm afraid I have to agree with you only to the part concerning Koike. What I got from your thoughts is that it wouldn't matter if Keyakizaka become more "relaxed" or "downgrade a bit" to cope for (kawaii?) girls like Uemura and Ozeki. Well, no. You see Expressiveness and Artistic Expression (capitalized) is what makes Keyakizaka46 the group it is. And believe me, the face of Ozeki can become very somber, even frightening when she is emerged wholeheartedly in a Keyaki performance, same as Uemura. Keyakizaka46 is not and cannot become AKB or one of its sister groups or anything simpler, lighter or more mainstream. Keyakizaka46 was the revolutionary next step and is always at the forefront ever since.

As a universal fan only introduced to the japanese musical scene just 5-6 years ago, I love Keyakizaka46 and consider it one of the coolest mixed performance groups. Once I "met" them 3 years ago, I didn't looked back to anything before that.

 

I think the girls especially the first gens have to take some of the blame for the name change the "21 Bonds", everyone is in senbatsu and no newcomers allowed stuff is on them. The hinting that the new color will be yellow has me worried as does the possibility of Sakurazaka (even if those two things don't really mesh) what separates Keya from the other 48/46 groups is that their songs and choreography are light years better. If they start getting the same disposable, uninteresting songs and choreo that are bog standard for Nogi and Hina it will be a loss. It doesn't all have to be "Fukyowaon" and "Garasu", think "Futari", but those type songs still need to be a major part of their repitoire.

 

Keyaki is wholly owned by S&F. And then S&F is partially owned by Sony, partially owned by Y&N Brothers. The proportion there is probably 50% and 50%.

Inserting my take on the "Keyakizaka can 'relax' a bit" vs "Keyakizaka must keep the concept they've had up to now" debate: If management let the girls decide the content on their own, what they would come up with would be way more cuter than what most Keyaki fans would be prepared for . Realistically, I think it'll be something in between.

 

*Just an outsider opinion here, don't mind me*
I just noticed this news and wow thats a messed up management.
Honestly, as a non fan i really like the concept and style of Keyaki but to me the "shadow" and the dark characters created(which look forced and restraining) are a bit too much for me that make me stay away from getting to know them.
I could be wrong but that is the view of what i see as an outsider.

Even as a non fan, i believe Keyakizaka46 can become bigger with their style but i just feel there is a missing piece and something restraining them. I just hope this reboot can help them find that missing piece and get rid of the unnecessary dark character.
Hopefully they keep the style and concept tho, their choreography and songs are what make them different and interesting.

 

Each idol group need to develop its own niche, otherwise it is just another me-too idol group (there are plenty of those out there). AKB has the cute side for the most part (Uza was the most Keyakizaka-like-vibe song/choreo they ever came up with). Nogi has the classy end cornered, and Hina the "sunny, happy aura" side. I agree with you not all Keya or new-Keya songs have to be the super dark type, as Futari Saison demostrated.

 

I..................................gotta agree with you there... I think the whole 21 bonds thing was really cool at the time, it showed how close the members were, and it linked well with their "humility, kindness, bonds" mantra too. But I do think the second they learnt they would be getting new members they should have been given the reality check from management/staff that they are ultimately an idol group, and members will leave, members will join, and you wont be 21 forever. Had they prevented the 21 bonds thing going as out of hand as it did, I really do believe we would have seen keyaki as a mixed kanji and hiragana group with a selected senbatsu. The fault lies mostly on management for adding new members but also going down the "if it aint broke don't fix it" route with the senbatsu's, but it's also the members fault for not speaking up on behalf of hiragana members at the time, as they were just as much a part of keyakizaka as they were. It's also the fans fault for jumping on this 21 bonds concept so hard that it justified management's choice to not integrate gana's with kanji in senbatsu. It would have prevented the gana girls feeling as shitty as they did, neru burning out, techi also burning out from mgmt's will to change, frustrated members graduating (zuumin), and well... you know the rest lol.

but, we're here now so all we can do is look forward to a positive future. the bonds of 28 members lol

 

Looks like the Keyaki milkshake is bringing all the lurkers out to the yard. Welcome, all outsiders, lurkers, non-fans, new fans, passersby, choo-choo train riders, - sorry, I'll stop now.

I definitely know what you mean about Keya's concept seeming to restrict the members from showing off a more diverse, maybe even truer forms of themselves. Hard to act all jolly, goofy, or dorky when your group is literally known for being "idols who don't smile" and tackling serious topics / social issues in their songs. So yeah, I echo the posters above that a balance needs to be sought.

On that note, I absolutely love their 9th single, Dare ga Sono Kane wo Narasu no ka?, which definitely has more meaning than your typical idol pop song yet still far from full-on angst. Like a more melancholy, sentimental vibe which kinda reminds me of Futari Saison in that aspect. Definitely wouldn't mind having the group churn out more songs like this post-name change.

 

Yep, this was my point, exactly. I love Techi to death, and I love Keyakizaka too obviously, but the feel and mood changed when she withdrew. And that Queen comment made me chuckle a bit, thanks for that.

I'm the same with @keyak, the more I listen to Dare ga the more I love it. At least we are getting a good last single.

 

Sorry I'm not informed on this: how did the 21 bonds thing come about? Did the members come up with that? I always just assumed it was management who came up with it and pushed it, but from what people are saying, it seems like that wasn't the case?

If you recall, the online 1-hour documentary/stream they aired was called "the 28 fragments" or something like that... And tbh, ever since I heard of "21 bonds" I always thought management should stop doing that. Like others have said, some members will come and go. That number will change. Better to focus on the concept and the members themselves and don't bring numbers like that into focus.

 

I cant help feeling sad and crying whenever i hear the 9th single, im emotionally and a little financially invested with the group. Im still gonna support as long the 1st gen are still there... i wish they can find happiness with the new concepts and new image.

 

Personally, I find the name-change business very sad, but the more I think of it, the more it seems inevitable. "Keyakizaka" is serious songs and Techi's intensity. "Toriizaka" makes some sense to me, since that has a nice sound and strong associations and was the name of the group until the moment the members were first announced. However, the story I read was that they may have gone away from it for fear of offending some aristocratic establishment on that street.

I don't have much hope for success, despite the talent and beauty there. It feels like a last-ditch gamble. But maybe one or some members -- and their first song -- will just click and the new group will take off. I hope.

I remain a huge Techi fan, but there's no question that management's fixation on her -- understandable as that was, and tremendous as her early success was -- was in the long run bad for her and bad for the group. My own feeling is that Techi's opposition to merging Hiragana members in was in order to be nice to the members who would be displaced. Memi apparently supported her in that, despite the fact that it also probably harmed her career. Unintended consequences are a fact of life.

Just a note: they changed the name right when the chosen members were introduced, and before the concept was decided on (according to something Aki-P said, which is supported by the un-Keyaki-like look of early publicity). And although Techi was front and centre at the announcement, I don't believe they had even decided for sure she would be centre, let alone perma-centre.

@Conjyak -- I believe that management came up with the slogan "Humility, Kindness, Bonds," but that the "all-21" idea came from the members themselves. The person I remember mentioning it most was Fuu-chan. I think Techi proposed it or went along with it because she felt badly being put above everyone else. She has said that it wasn't until the third single (Futari Saison) that she could really accept being centre. It was kind of awful to watch her on the shows where the early senbatsus were announced; she seemed so disturbed to be centre.

 

This is just based on my own knowledge and observations (correct me if I'm wrong):

For the first eight singles, all 21 members (excluding Harada Mayu and including Neru) were always included in the selection. Heck, we can go as far to say there was no senbatsu at all from SaiMajo to Kuroi, which means that they did not go through the normal phase of an idol group like Nogi, where being selected and not being selected for a single is a normal, unavoidable part of an idol career.

I can only imagine how hectic it is to promote, record, and perform a single. It is through these shared experiences, I believe, that the so-called 21 bonds were formed. Its a beautiful thing, for sure, but as we all know, nothing is permanent in the idol business.

 

I won't rush to say the '21 bond' came from the members themselves. I think it just happened. It started when mgmt put all members in the senbatsu. If there had been the normal selection, then maybe it won't grow to be that strong. Because of this, they felt insecure if one should be left out. An example was when Neru was announced to be in the next senbatsu. The joy & relief they felt then.

I am currently once again seeing that 'bond' but this time around, it's with different generations. So even if they start the normal senbatsu, that strong regret they had when they were 21 might be absent a little bit.

 

i also feel it maybe because of all the things that happening around with the management, graduation etc... these all made them more close and protective with each members.

 

Anyway incoming break

https://twitter.com/7ttbty_/status/1285021746655973376?s=19

LMAO

 

It's the second time you wrote here about Techi "asking" mngmnt to keep the 21 Kanji senbatsu and let Hiragana out of it. I was wondering where you got this info because I never read about it anywhere else. Not even Techi antis came up with it which is strange since it could have potentially be another ammo for their long obsessive war. Just curious, no judging. It's still too easy remember some senbatsu in which Techi just looked ready to kill mngmnt. It's logical now wonder if behind it there was really this sort of "compromise"

I dislike both Toriizaka than Sakurazaka... can't we let go this street name thing also, since we are gonna change anyway?

 

Sorry to interrupt your discussion, but Keyaki Republic 2019 DVD/Blu-ray jacket covers have been revealed:

Artificially resized as I'm uploading directly to forum. Click link above or here for full-size.

 

Again an opinion from an outsider: So I have been reading around a bit and it's only a rumor but I hope their name won't become something generic like Sakurazaka46 and I really hope they don't become "cutesy idols". Not that there's anything wrong with it, but one thing I respect so much about Keyakizaka is their ability to pull off unique/bad girl/intense songs and dances. Even with many key members graduating, current girls can pull of the performances really well, nothing more fun than seeing Watanabe Rika (for example) who is normally so shy and cute dancing intensely at stage.

 

It was reported some time ago by the tabloid-who-must-not-be-named.

Spoiler: You know who

Lord Bunshun

Hmmm.. where have I seen this cover before? Oh wait a sec..

Spoiler: They never diverge do they

Sad we'll get no Commander-in-Chief Techi next year. But still, looking forward to Sakura Republic 2021