Single Keyakizaka46 3rd [Futari Saison] (2016/11/30)

Discussion in 'Keyakizaka46 News & Releases' started by ForrestFuller, Sep 30, 2016.

  1. CutePanda

    CutePanda Upcoming Girls

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    Last edited: Dec 3, 2016
  2. hart123

    hart123 Kenkyuusei Stage48 Donor

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    Yay 400k.
    450k a week seems possible, but I think it will be only 430k+ in the end
     
  3. garnetjester

    garnetjester Kenkyuusei

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    I don't think Akane is as popular as the other center candidates at this point, but her popularity is growing more and more, and she's the most beautiful member in my opinion. Also, she's the designated sexy girl of the group, so she might actually play that up for an interesting B-side or unit center, I don't know if it would work so well for an A-side (also I don't really like her mean girl personality so I hope she's not center but that's personal preference).

    When I first saw all the girls I thought Zuumin was my favorite, she is so cute and sings beautifully, she's definitely talented, but I agree with @ukifune about her ambition to stand out just for herself as something that works against her in a group like Keyakizaka, where everyone is closely bonded together. I still really like her as an idol, but she's no longer my favorite.

    Neru however, completely won me over. I love her, she's so endearing and straightforward. But I don't know if she's ready yet for Keyaki center, especially because Techi is a force to be reckoned with. I might dislike Techi's solo dance in Futari Saison, but her stage presence is undeniable, she's got that star quality that very few idols have and mgmt would be crazy to ignore it. I don't think Techi is going to leave the 0 position anytime soon, honestly, and for good reason. I don't like the permacenter thing (I didn't like it back with Acchan even though I loved her, it just gets boring) but Techi is simply amazing and I think she should be kept there for another single at least and then switch it up, having her come back to the 0 position occasionally.

    I think Risa is good center material, considering how she's super beautiful and her cool aura is way stronger than Manaka's, I'm not a big fan of Risa's personality either, but it's strong enough that it might be interesting to see her leading the group to take their coolness up some more levels. I see her confidence growing ever since she debuted and think it would be an interesting turn of events if she were to lead.

    Berika on the other hand... I love her so much, but I don't see her centering yet, she needs to have more stage presence to be in that position, she will definitely get there with time, but it's still too early. The fact that she's terrible at speaking in public doesn't mean anything imo, Paruru was even painful to watch at interviews sometimes, but the other girls supported her, and she was able to do things her own way, I just don't think now is the right time for it.

    Yuipon is very similar to Nanase in her melancholic, defenseless aura, but Yuipon is more talented than Nana (this is not a diss, Nana is currently my second favorite Nogi girl) so I think she's a really good candidate for the position, I do think that if she were to be center (or Neru, for that matter) Keyaki would end up looking too similar to Nogi, so I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon.

    All in all, I think Keyaki is a group with many members who have different charms and who could potentially stand in the 0 position, I don't think they're going to switch Techi out just yet because she's too amazing and fits their cool image way too much, but if they came out with a ballad like Saison it means that AkiP wants to lead the group in different directions, and that may call for different centers as well.
     
  4. VincentS

    VincentS Kenkyuusei

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    Love the MStation performace. What an insane diference a really seasoned camera/production team can make.
    Everyone looked crisp, Techi dance wasn't awkward and it just felt right.

    CMIIW, but Tamori seemed more engaged that I have seen him before. Tree power. :awesome:

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------

    To everyone who wants a new center, I'd love to know how your formation would look like.
    Everytime I try another solo center, I just can't find a good balance without putting Techi in 3rd row or kicking her from senbatsu.
    Double center with her in the shadow center position works, but I feel that's somewhat counterproductive if the motive is to establish other members without her presence overshadowing them.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2016
  5. ForrestFuller

    ForrestFuller Future Girls

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    Music Station Talk + Performance

     
  6. Midsummer Rain

    Midsummer Rain Kenkyuusei

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    Wow, I knew that Neru was very promoted, but I didn't notice how much until reading what you pointed out. Agree that Techi-Neru-Yuis are the apple of management's eyes. We probably can add Suzumon, too.

    I apologized because I've seen people in this forum getting angry about cutted posts (something about taking it out of context?), so I didn't want to risk it. Thanks you. :)
     
  7. sakurazaki

    sakurazaki Kenkyuusei

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    So saison = season in French? lol I thought they were referring to a type of wine lol

    ---
    That was a nice performance.
    Wished they would take the video from the front when the girls were marching
     
  8. mionfortune

    mionfortune Kenkyuusei

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    Akanen can pull it off especially if it's a summer single. [hehe]
    Personally, I think any genre would fit on her.
    She might have an S~chara and sergeant personality but she's really friendly, sweet and playful. She also knows how to accept and learn from mistakes so I don't think this is a problem. ;)

    Keyaki establish their cool image too much that I even started to think of them as a soldier who protects their goddesses/princesses which is the Nogi.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2016
  9. Atreyu

    Atreyu Kenkyuusei

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    This might be something veteran idol fans might be more familiar with. I see some are calling out for a double center. My question is, what justifies a double center? In pre-Keyaki times when AKB singles or Nogizaka's 'Ima, hanashitai dareka ga iru' had wCenters, how was it received? In your eyes, was there a benefit of it?

    I might be getting it wrong but I have the feeling that some think like 'If one person as center has a strength of 100, then two have a strength of 200'. I personally see it as the exact opposite. One strong center who gets the job done well should be received much better than a shared center regardless of ability, because shared viewer attention means lower attention, and focus on the individual is one of the main things that creates attachment to idols. Moreover, to me it gives the sense that management in such cases is indecisive on who to firmly rely on. These are all not well-founded impressions however because I don't know much about how and why wCenters have been used in the past. I can't image it being for choreography or concept reasons as the formation doesn't give any new opportunities that would be exist with an orthodox formation or at least in Nogi's case, it wasn't used that way.

    I'm more or less ready for further surprises in mgmt decisions - even when there are heartbreaks that come with them (that's how it is in the end). After all, the Senbatsu and formation announcement for this single was already exceptional, and although first reactions were mixed, they rallied a great campaign even in shade of the critical halloween 'scandal' and went on to outsell their previous releases considerably. Numbers like these don't lie. We were presented a fantastic production despite, and regardless of unorthodox Senbatsu, fandom readily accepted it. The way for experimenting more is set free, although it's not necessarily what people are hoping for in the advance.

    Nothing to add about the live - just well done. Instead of looking chaotic, I get the sense that the solo part is the group backing up Techi while she's doing her thing.
     
  10. emiche.

    emiche. Kenkyuusei

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    The performance was really great. The first lives where a bit messy but this one was really good and not awkward at all.

    I actually like W center look at SayaMilky or WMatsui they really complimented each other. Yuko and Jurina did great for UZA. I think if the choreography fits well a W center can be a force rather than a weakness. And yes for now I do think that to be able to overshadow Tecchi they would need a W center. (She's that strong ahah)
     
  11. Generic_User

    Generic_User Kenkyuusei Stage48 Donor

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    Techi should stay center because she's just too good to be anywhere else. She outshines the other members of Keyaki like the sun does the stars. At the moment, placing her anywhere else in formation would still overshadow the center.

    I'm not sure how the rest of Nogi fandom received the W Center, but I loved it. Maiyan x Nanase is like a punch to the face with sheer beauty. Maiyan is awesome. Nanase is awesome. Both centering is double awesome. In this case of W Center, it is really a doubling of the center power.

    Now I'm not too sure how a W center is used, but it seems to allow for a balanced front line with even number of members. In the Nogi case, the only other even front line formation I remember is Hashire Bicycle, and that looked awkward because the center, Ikoma, was not really center. For, Ima hana, the W center looks more symmetrical and balanced knowing that the two middle are the centers.

    I would love to see a W center in Keyaki because they have many more natural pairings -- za cool, W Watanabe, Yuichans, but I am afraid it's not enough to overcome Techi. Maybe something radical like a triple center to distract us from where Techi is in formation?
     
  12. ukifune

    ukifune Rank 81-100 (Temporary Name)

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    It's so great to see the group continuing to improve. That was the best, cleanest version of Saison yet. And I thought their movements seemed lighter in the first part, which is what they needed. I still feel as if we didn't get enough overall shots, and missed some of Techi's dance, but that's nit-picking. Let's see how sales do for Saturday, after a performance like that on M-Station Friday night.

    Speaking of sales, yatta! Love that big "4".

    I love that idea of Keyaki guarding Nogi. Sweet.

    I have never been able to imagine Akanen at centre...until now. She has grown so much in the past few weeks. But I guess I'm consistent in seeing dance ability, and reliability, as very important, especially in Keyaki. So not yet. Part of Akanen's growth, for me, has been returning to looking how I saw her in that very first training camp on KayaKake. Maybe she has recovered her simplicity and confidence...or something.

    @Midsummer Rain -- I guess I have to say that when we do cut, we have to make sure we're not taking things so much out of context that it misrepresents what people said. I do consider that when I do it. Got to quote the right bit, which I think you did.

    When people were talking about double centres, I had a thought: what about a Techi-Neru double? Then the centre would be their relationship with each other. Not symmetrical at all, but the song and the dance could emphasize their friendship. Last spring, people talked about Neru being a tricky tanuki, and that creating a strong relationship with the star was her way of moving forward. Maybe that was part of it -- Neru has said she always feels an outsider, and tries hard to make people like her, to protect herself. This started when she moved from the Goto Islands to Nagasaki. But especially during the summer, I think Neru's stability was important to Techi's mental balance. So I think their relationship can be played as a dramatic element sometime, maybe with Techi revolving around Neru -- then echoing that with other pairs through the group.

    As a Japanese tweet points out, K46's appearance on the M-Station year-end special makes a hard schedule even harder: it's a four-hour live show on the day before their first one-man live (of two in a row).
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2016
  13. riduch

    riduch Kenkyuusei

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    I like akanen too! She can make a great center, really, also sugai sama too, they both have the same characteristic

    shida is a lazy performer, but I agree with you she's super awesome and super alluring also super cute in the same time. but she's lazy in movements, she needs to fix it first then a center would be great for her! (applied to berika too)

    I disagree too, it's not about "it has to be techi". Members with cool persona can center current keyaki's a-side, while neru simply can't because she's more cute than cool. I don't hate her at all, even if she were a center I won't complain. But there are a lot of better members for the center posts aside of techi, especially if keyaki still carrying on this cool songs routine.

    Yeah! berisa! Please make it happen!.

    P.S.: What I stated above are my personal bias, please don't take it too seriously, lol
     
  14. VincentS

    VincentS Kenkyuusei

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    @Mstation Performance.
    Some tweets are pointing out that only some members had black mic-heads and those were working/live ones. The silver heads were props.
    So Techi, Zuumin, Kobayui, Kuritaro, Habu and OdaNana are assumed to be singing live.
    Based on ability this could be true, though I don't really know as it all seemed lipsynched to me.
    Like you hear Yuuka's voice during the MC and she had a silver mic. Sounds like BS to me, but you know some people gotta critisize something..


    edit: some people are pointing out if that were true Yone would be singing live too.. so yeah.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2016
  15. ukifune

    ukifune Rank 81-100 (Temporary Name)

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    Words to live by. Please assume that I put this at the end of all my posts.
     
  16. kyoto48☀︎☂

    kyoto48☀︎☂ Kenkyuusei

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    This is starting to get ot, but I don't think acchan/yuko rivalry was why AKB got big at all. Acchan wasn't the mgmt favorite, she was basically the fan favorite too, if not she wouldn't have won ⅔ ssk she was in. And to this day many people think it's only because acchan's fans became too overconfident that yuko was actually able to win the 2nd ssk.

    No, the reason why AKB got huge back then was a few main things. A streak of really kami level songs, a group of 7-8 popular and kami-level members (all not cookie-cutter idols but with personalities), handshakes, and freshness. It took the mix of all of those to make AKB the phenomenon that it was. The acchan/yuko rivalry was a part of that, but not the big part.

    To bring it back on topic, keyaki has the freshness, and the handshakes. They have a core group of popular members, they have a streak of kami-level songs going right now, and yea they also have a bit of a rivalry between yurina/neru. Basically they are in a great place, and shouldn't change a thing because what they're doing now is working. Just like golden era akb, the other members don't need the center position to be prominent and gain fans.

    But having an eternal center definitely helps the people outside of the fandom really identify with one member as part of the group. Which leads to more familiarity, and whenever that member is on a random variety show general people will say "oh that's yurina from keyaki", instead of "who is that".

    On top of that yurina is basically the closest thing to acchan since acchan, putting her anywhere but center is a detriment to the group. To the entire general/outside fan base (not wota fans), yurina is the acchan of keyaki.
     
  17. gocchisama

    gocchisama Kenkyuusei Stage48 Donor

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    Ok let's agree to disagree. Because what i'm saying is that popular members needs rival to keep growing, not arguing about what made AKB great. it's not the same thing.

    On the point of eternal center, there's a limit of tolerance. Something that work now can weary some time after. That's why Keyakizaka, to keep their growth, need to see one step ahead and learn from other group mistake.

    Kouhaku opportunity will help Keyakizaka to set in stone their impact on general audience if the group make their best performance of the year. If that's the case, then management need to come back to the fan's core. Fan's request most of the time would like diversity if possible. Also rotating is a good way to change style and try new things.
     
  18. ukifune

    ukifune Rank 81-100 (Temporary Name)

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    I'm not very good at identifying who's singing when there are multiple singers interchanging. But someone on 2channel wondered when Pon was singing on Yuuhi 1/3, and someone else gave a partial answer for the first few lines of that song. Here's their answer romanized, for anyone who's interested:

    Saigo no chaimu ga nariowari [techi]
    (nantonaku) [neru]
    kaidan nobotte dare mo inai basho made [zuumin]
    (ichinin kiri) [pon]

    kousha no okujou kaze no naka [neru]
    (bonyari to) [techi]
    sabita tesuri no ue de houzue tsuiteta [pon]
    (chiheisen) [zuumin]

    I really think this is a good song. Orchestrated country sound with good singing (technically assisted, but good). Then again, I think every song on this album is outstanding, and could be a single on its own.

    Just for fun, here's a translation.
    The sound of the schoolbell dies away [Techi]
    (at last) [Neru]
    And I climb the stairs to where there's nobody [Zuumin]
    (all alone) [Pon]

    On the roof of the school, in the breeze [Neru]
    (aimlessly) [Techi]
    Resting my chin on my hands on the rusty railing [Pon]
    (the horizon) [Zuumin]

    The title of the song means "A third of the sunset" (more or less).
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2016
  19. Meiji Ishin

    Meiji Ishin Kenkyuusei

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    More than the center position which will be in Techi's more than capable hands for awhile, I wonder if will we'll see a Nogi-Keya trade similar to the 48-46 trade with Ikoma and Rena.
     
  20. gocchisama

    gocchisama Kenkyuusei Stage48 Donor

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    Aki-p clearly said there will be nothing of the sort.

    If there's something i want to stand on, it is Keya and Nogi integrity.
     

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