Single [SINGLE] Nogizaka46 4th [Seifuku no Mannequin] '12/12/19

Re: [SINGLE] Nogizaka46 4th Single [Title TBD] (Date TBD)

Well, she used to be one of the front girls in Nogizaka's very first media appearances after the girls passed the audition.

 

Re: [SINGLE] Nogizaka46 4th Single [Title TBD] (Date TBD)

You're right, Ozu. She is the girl that is standing at the front row during the first media appearance (between Sakurai and Yoshimoto). This shows that the management is already high on her right from the beginning. Still, I agree with yic17 that she should not be placed in Hachifukujin that quickly. Senbatsu should be fine.

Talking about being favoured by management, have you guys realized that Hoshino is still a front row girl despite the fact that she isn't that popular at all? The fact that she is only voted in ONCE at the PARCO stage plays should have shown that. Maybe some management people think that she is the Mayuyu of Nogizaka46 but I am not seeing it at all.

And the management really needs to take the results of the PARCO stage votings a little more seriously. They could also have taken the chance to shake things up a bit by placing Ikuta as the center. Ikoma can still be in the front row. And as caramujo puts it, Eto Misa should not have been overlooked as a senbatsu member.

Kazumi should have been in Hachifukujin. If they can allow her to be a normal senbatsu member despite her popularity, why not take Maiyan and Sayurin out of Hachifukujin while they are at it. At least that will free up some vacancies so that other talented girls like Ichiki and Miyazawa could have the chance to shine?

It appears Nogizaka46 has reached the point where the top spots are now dominated by the same girls. In fact, after seeing that announcement of Hoshino as the 3rd front girl, I had correctly guessed the remaining 5 Hachifukujin members with the exception of Akimoto. I am starting to wonder how many undergirls would continue to be stuck in their position.

 

Re: [SINGLE] Nogizaka46 4th Single [Title TBD] (Date TBD)

Minami: Minami remaining in the front is mysterious indeed, but I don't have anything against it. In fact, I'm rather puzzled why she isn't more popular among wotas thanks to her looks.

Ikuta & Ikoma: The PARCO stage votes reflect the wotas' preference of the members, which occasionally is in conflict with what sort of public image the management wants the group to have. I remember Akimoto saying that he almost picked Ikuta for center, but thought it "would be just imitating what he did with Acchan" - although in hindsight that doesn't make any sense at all. Ikoma has been designed to be the face of the group no matter what happens so I'm not expecting any changes in that regard.

Kazumi: I'm a Takayama fan, but I can sort of understand why she is put in the back row thanks to her eccentric style and not particularly good looks - although she deserves more time in variety shows because she can lighten up any Nogizaka related activity pretty easily.

Maiyan and Sayuringo seem to be particularly popular among non-wota fans (Maiyan is particularly popular among girls) so I guess they are kept in the front to guarantee that the more casual fans stay interested in the group.

 

Re: [SINGLE] Nogizaka46 4th Single [Title TBD] (Date TBD)

^
^ I think Hoshino is rather like Kato Rena of Nogizaka: similar looks, style and age.

 

Re: [SINGLE] Nogizaka46 4th Single [Title TBD] (Date TBD)

Hoshimina is cute ... but that's about it. I don't think she has an interesting personality or is specially talented in singing/dancing ... I really don't understand why she is in hachifukujin. If it's up to me, I'd definitely give that spot to Kazumin ... or Yumi.

As for Maiyan and Sayurin ... according to a mixi ranking I saw 2 months ago, they (+ Nanamin & Ikoma) were way popular than everyone else. Maiyan had like 5 times more followers than most of the other girls ... Kazumin got a lot of votes during the PARCO shows was probably due to her having a really good introduction during the audition part where she was both funny and showed off her singing skills.

Anyways, I see Maiyan, Sayurin, and Nanamin as the faces of Nogizaka right now (capturing the casual fans as Ozu said) ... wouldn't be a wise move to drop them from hachifukujin imo. [shake]

 

Re: [SINGLE] Nogizaka46 4th Single [Title TBD] (Date TBD)

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gb4wxcfQK8[/yt]

 

Re: [SINGLE] Nogizaka46 4th Single [Title TBD] (Date TBD)

I think I am going to write an essay about what is wrong with this senbatsu. Bear with me please.
Many points are my personal thoughts, but many are also observations of the thoughts of other Nogizaka fans. Most posts & comment I read are filled with fans who are dejected, angry, disappointed, raging, hating/anti-ing, & rage-quitting.

I think the central, fundamental issue with this senbatsu is the fact that it doesn't reflect merit (which for idols, this is a combination of talent & popularity), nor does it reflect equity (fairness.)

Issue with senbatsu:

Spoiler

While previous senbatsus were not reflections of popularity either, it is accepted as long as under members are given a chance to benefit from such. & for previous singles, under members benefited to a small degree. This senbatsu announcement doesn't even feature any new, first-time senbatsu member however. Fully 11 members have not ever joined senbatsu since the first single, that is also after one full year of hard work. Yet this single feature no new first time member except for Manatsu. That bring us to the second point:

Manatsu Airdrop:

Spoiler

The above is further compounded by Manatsu's airdropping into k8 position. People noted that she withdraw temporarily to focus on her education. Yet, many other members need to work on both their schooling & Nogizaka commitment simultaneously just to achieve their standing today (if there is any standing), & did not have the privilege to temporarily withdraw. Members that are doing this include Yukina & Ikuchan, while some other members have to give up their good educational foundation just to focus on Nogizaka (Nakada Kana.) Many fans feel that this is a slap in the face to all under members, those who tried to balance schooling & career in Nogizaka, & those who were forced to choose between schooling & Nogizaka. Speaking of Kana...

Nakada Kana drop:

Spoiler

There is collective shock at Kana's drop from senbatsu. Considering popularity, she is on par with or higher than Sakurai (captain & k8), & much higher then Hoshino (k8 front row) & Ichiki Rena (senbatsu) for example. Eto Misa also have superior handshake result far ahead of many regular senbatsu members, but never once enter senbatsu. If Kana is dropped to make way for members who never entered senbatsu before, then it might be understandable. But that is not the case even. With regard to dropping,

Hachifukujin:

Spoiler

Many fans are dismayed at Hoshino's & Sakurai's continuing presence among k8 (& Manatsu's airdrop into there as well.) Now, I like both members, but it is a fact that these two members have vastly inferior popularity in comparison to many senbatsu members, especially Hoshino. Management do have the right to push members that hey deem with potential to a degree, but in the end of the day, I much prefer a slow & steady rise to the top (like mayuyu) rather than a bold & fast push (like paruru's). Imo, slow & steady produce a more stable fan base & much less hate/anti, while the bold & fast push might produce a strong fan base but will result in strong hate/anti. My observation is that Hoshino is not benefiting from this strong push at all, but rather is gaining an impressive amount of hate/anti. It doesn't help that she is more mentally fragile than the other members too. The thing is, she's young, so they should really slow down the push; she still have a lot of time the develop.

If hachifukujin is to be decided on merit, Hoshino, Sakurai, Manatsu sadly should not be there, while Kazumi & Nanase should instead. If they want to make sure all member have a chance to shine, then there should be a lot more change here too, & all currently k8 members should occupy k8 space no more than once until every member got a chance up there as well. This also lead us to the legitimacy of the centre.

Centre:

Spoiler

Ikoma's continuing as centre is a disappointment for many fans. Given a choice of two, most prefer Ikuta over Ikoma. Given a choice of many, Ikoma ranked fifth in preferred centre behind Ikuchan, Maiyan, Nanase, & Nanamin. Her mixi ranking is exceeded by three members, her handshake exceeded by five. Her parco result, even more. I recognize that she is a very hard working member, but that is also the same for all other members. Mentally & popularity-wise, she is exceeded by at least 3 to 4 members.

If talent is the criteria for choosing centre, she is also surpassed by many members, be it singing (Ikuchan, Mahiro, Maiyan), dancing (most members imo), sport (no comment...), mental toughness (cry too much, run from reporter, etc.), special skills (none as far as I know), hosting skill (Ikuchan), & leadership (Yumiko). If the centre position is not to be based on merit, but equity, than there should already be at least three different centres. Considering the above, it is no surprise that the controversy regarding Nogizaka's centre is continuing unfortunately.

Conclusion:

Spoiler

Considering all the aforementioned problems, it is no surprise that reactions to this senbatsu announcement is decidedly negative. Some Nogizaka fans used to support the management discretion approach to selecting senbatsu, with the central reason being that it offers members with less popularity a chance to be featured in the front row. With today's senbatsu announced, however, most now rather that there just be an senbatsu election just like AKB. If the senbatsu does not reflect popularity, nor does it benefit the back members, what that leave us with is a system where senbatsu members is chosen purely based on the personal preference of the management.

As of right now, there is even a "don't buy the single movement" being waged in the Japanese blog I frequent, with the aim of changing the system to be more fair. When movement like this is being waged, you know the disappointment is huge. I really like the members in Nogizaka46, they are all really hard working & talented. But my faith (& many other fans') in Nogizaka's management have been completely crushed. Until either meritocracy or equity (or both) is reflected, I will continue to find my fandom toward Nogizaka be challenged. I will still support individual members, but as a group, it will be that much more difficult.

References:

Spoiler

> The Japanese blog I frequent:
http://blog.livedoor.jp/ngzk46/

> Popularity - Poll result for preferred centre & senbatsu members:
http://nogizaka46.nobody.jp/

> Popularity - Handshake:
走れ！Bicycle個握（九次終了）
幕張(9/2)
大阪(9/23)
名古屋(9/29)
横浜(10/27)

白石
●●●●● 5/5
●●●●● 5/5
○○●●● 3/5
●●●●● 5/5[18/20]
橋本
●●●●● 5/5
○●●●● 4/5
○●●●● 4/5
●●●●● 5/5[18/20]
松村
●●●●● 5/5
●●●●● 5/5
○●●●● 4/5
●●●●● 5/5[19/20]
生田
●●●●○ 4/5
○○○○－ 0/4
○○○○－ 0/4
●●●●● 2/5[09/18]
生駒
○●●●● 4/5
○○○○－ 0/4
○○○●－ 1/4
●●●●● 2/5[10/18]
井上
○○○○○ 0/5
○○○－－ 0/3
○○○－－ 0/3

○○○○● 0/5[01/16]
西野
○●●●● 4/5
○●●－－ 2/3
○○●－－ 1/3
●●●●● 5/5[12/16]
高山
○●●●● 4/5
○○●－－ 1/3
○○●－－ 1/3
●●●●● 5/5[11/16]
中田
○○○○○ 0/5
○●－－－ 1/2
○○－－－ 0/2
○○○○○ 0/5[01/14]
桜井
○○●○○ 1/5
－－○○－ 0/2
－－○○－ 0/2
○○○●○ 1/5[02/14]
深川
○○○○○ 0/5
－－－○○ 0/2
－－－○○ 0/2
○○○●● 2/5[02/14]
若月
○○○●－ 1/4
○○○－－ 0/3
○○○－－ 0/3
○○●●－ 2/4[03/14]
斉優
○○○●－ 1/4
－－－○○ 0/2
－－－○○ 0/2
○○○●－ 1/4[02/12]
星野
○○○－－ 0/3
○○－－－ 0/2
○○－－－ 0/2
○○●－－ 1/3[01/10]
伊万
－－○○○ 0/3
－○○－－ 0/2
－○○－－ 0/2
－－○○○ 0/3[00/10]
衛藤
－－●●● 3/3
－－－●－ 1/1
－－－●－ 1/1
－－●●● 3/3[*8/*8]
畠中
－－○○○ 0/3
○－－－－ 0/1
○－－－－ 0/1
－－○○○ 0/3[*0/*8]
齋飛
○○○－－ 0/3
－－○－－ 0/1
－－●－－ 1/1
○○●－－ 0/3[*2/*8]
永島
○○○－－ 0/3
－－－○－ 0/1
－－－●－ 1/1
○○○－－ 0/3[*1/*8]
76. 名無し坂 2012年09月29日 02:41
能條
○○－－－ 0/2
－－－○－ 0/1
－－－○－ 0/1
○○－－－ 0/2[*0/*6]
伊寧
○○－－－ 0/2
－－－－○ 0/1
－－－－○ 0/1
○○－－－ 0/2[*0/*6]
中元
－－－○○ 0/2
－－－－○ 0/1
－－－－○ 0/1
－－－○○ 0/2[*0/*6]
市來
－－－○○ 0/2
－－－－○ 0/1
－－－－○ 0/1
－－－○○ 0/2[*0/*6]
柏幸
－－－○○ 0/2
－－－－○ 0/1
－－－－○ 0/1
－－－○○ 0/2[*0/*6]
川後
○－－－－ 0/1
○－－－－ 0/1
○－－－－ 0/1
○－－－－ 0/1[*0/*4]
和田
○－－－－ 0/1
－○－－－ 0/1
－○－－－ 0/1
○－－－－ 0/1[*0/*4]
樋口
－○－－－ 0/1
－－○－－ 0/1
－－○－－ 0/1
－○－－－ 0/1[*0/*4]
斎ち
－○－－－ 0/1
－－－－○ 0/1
－－－－○ 0/1
－○－－－ 0/1[*0/*4]
川村
－－○－－ 0/1
－－－－○ 0/1
－－－－○ 0/1
－－○－－ 0/1[*0/*4]
岩瀬
－－－○－ 0/1
－－－○－ 0/1
－－－○－ 0/1
－－－○－ 0/1[*0/*4]
大和
－－－－○ 0/1
－－－○－ 0/1
－－－○－ 0/1
－－－－○ 0/1[*0/*4]
宮澤
－－－－○ 0/1
－－－－○ 0/1
－－－－○ 0/1
－－－－○ 0/1[*0/*4]
安藤
－－－－○ 0/1
－－－－○ 0/1
－－－－○ 0/1
－－－－● 0/1[*1/*4]

> Popularity - Mixi:
白石麻衣　　4,872（+24）
桥本奈々未　2,631（+5）
松村沙友理　2,107（+24）
生驹里奈　　2,065（+9）
生田絵梨花　1,350（+11）
井上小百合　1,008（+4）
西野七瀬　　　951（+15）
高山一実　　　817（+11）
斉藤优里　　　726（+1）
中田花奈　　　591（+7）
深川麻衣　　　581（+7）
桜井玲香　　　550（+7）
畠中清罗　　　484（+3）
若月佑美　　　401（+8）
斎藤飞鸟　　　368（+8）
星野みなみ　　366（+9）
市来玲奈　　　354（+2）
柏幸奈　　　　350（-1）
伊藤万理华　　292（+1）
卫藤美彩　　　251（+1）
永岛圣罗　　　250（+5）
大和里菜　　　246（+4）
伊藤宁々　　　231（-1）
川村真洋　　　228（-1）
中元日芽香　　193（0）
能条爱未　　　192（+6）
川后阳菜　　　152（+2）
宫泽成良　　　152（+2）
岩瀬佑美子　　144（+1）
安藤美云　　　144（+4）
秋元真夏　　　140（+92
斎藤ちはる　　101（0）
樋口日奈　　　 95（+3）
和田まあや　　 71（0）

 

Re: [SINGLE] Nogizaka46 4th Single [Title TBD] (Date TBD)

^^
Wow, nice essay, rust! You made a number of very valid points.

I very much agree with you on this. It has been a year since Nogizaka46's formation and they had been doing extremely well with the sales of their 3 singles. With a solid fan base being established, more people are getting to know about all the girls, including the UG. It should not hurt that much to have other girls being featured in K8. It gives them something important, a chance to shine, and not to be stuck in a limbo of non-exposure for too long.

When fans are getting a little too disappointed, it should a signal for the management to do something about the stagnant situation. Fans aren't hating on Ikoma, they just wants to see some other worthy person that can take the center position.

Nakada's drop from senbatsu is outragous, considering that some of us know there is at least one another person that should have been dropped. *cough*Hoshino*cough*

I have just listened to a short clip of their new song on the youtube video posted by OSR48 a post before yours. Judging from that, their 4th single is possibly... the worst thus far? So I would not be surprised if their singles sale did dropped a little, with or without the movement.

 

Re: [SINGLE] Nogizaka46 4th Single [Title TBD] (Date TBD)

@rust

Woohoo! Thanks for posting the updated handshake and mixi results!! \(^_^)/

Looks like SAYURINGO is the most popular for handshake ... woah!! O___O !!

-----

Now, about your essay ...

Spoiler

I agree with most of your points except the one with Ikoma. Sure, she may not be as good as other members on some of those areas you mentioned - singing, hosting, leadership, etc. BUT ... I think you forgot one of the most important factors for being an idol ... and that's IMAGE/PERSONALITY. If you ask me to choose a girl with the most UNIQUE image/personality from Nogizaka ... I will pick Ikoma without second thought. She really is a character (weirdo ) and stands out from everyone else. And this is important for a center because it captures the fans' attention.

When you say she lacks mental toughness and cries all the time ... I think that's an advantage for her. Ikoma is a very genuine girl ... and it allows her to connect with people. Or make people feel sympathy for her when she cries (and thus become aware of the whole group). Personally, her crying have made me feel touched many times. One of my favorite moments ... speech during AKB Request Hour 2012. Other girls wouldn't be able to create this kind of genuine connection with the fans I don't think. (Start at 3:43)

[dm]xu6us6_nogizaka46-live-guru-guru-curtain-akb48-request-hour-2012-01-19_music[/dm]

Aaand I completely disagree when you say her dancing is not as good as most members. I think Ikoma is one of the best dancers in Nogizaka. As with her genuineness in personality, it also shows in her dancing. Whenever she dances, she gives her best. You can see how much she enjoys it and that gives off a very joyful/pleasant vibe. I love her dancing in Hashire! Bicycle and don't think it would be the same without her. =\

Anyways, I am not saying Ikuchan wouldn't make a good center. In fact I predicted/hoped for an Ikuchan center for 4th single in order to keep things interesting/fresh. Just saying why I think Ikoma is actually a very good choice for being center.

-----

@best_wl

I am pretty sure it will be a B-side song and not the A-side song. Especially since it's already recorded and doesn't have Akimoto Manatsu in it - which she should be since she's hachifukujin.

 

Re: [SINGLE] Nogizaka46 4th Single [Title TBD] (Date TBD)

^thanks to best_wl & yic for reply!
Also, I welcome any critique for my essay above, since as a human, it is always possible for me to be wrong!
Of course, some issue might be a matter of opinion; but reading different perspective is always something I look forward to.

Also, congratz to Sayuringo for achieving #1 in handshake! [party]

To yic:

Spoiler

Regarding Ikoma, I do agree she has a very distinguishable personality & image, certainly much more notable than many members. I don't think her image is representative of Nogizaka for me however... but that is my personal thoughts. The same goes to my other points: I still don't think her lack of mental toughness is an advantage, or think she has good dancing ability, but these of course are my personal opinion. I am sure there is a good number of fans that find her dancing good, her fragility endearing, & her image & genuineness attractive. & as long as these attributes can attract fans, these are her strengths!

However, I still don't think these attributes qualify her for centre. Upon further reflection, I don't think it is so much about the above points actually, but rather the fact that she is not a consensus centre, as in a huge portion of Nogizaka fandom rather that she not be centre. By this, I mean that even if all the above points are negatives for me, she is a suitable centre if she is a consensus centre. To illustrate this point, think about Aachan for example. Personally, I prefer Yuko over Aachan given a choice of two; for a choice of many, I rather Mayu or Jurina or Yuko over Aachan. However, my personal preference should not matter, as in the end she is backed by the majority of AKB fandom. Most fans of other members also don't feud every day over her, & are rather contend with her being centre. All this make Aachan a consensus centre. The same cannot be said for Ikoma unfortunately. The various Nogizaka forum & blog I frequent are filled with daily criticisms of Ikoma as centre. & I don't find pleasure in seeing these criticisms.

A less formal point I guess is that I personally just felt it is really really unfair to see all the members suffer & despair when their name is called or not called, while she have the privilege to be guaranteed centre. It also make other members feel that their hard work doesn't matter, as they can never reach centre position unless they are favoured by management. This is not her fault of course, & I don't fault her over it. But this is a very valid point I think.

The thing is, I don't hate her, & I also recognize that she is really hard working. I want her to do well in Nogizaka. But in the end of the day, I think she is not the most suitable choice for centre.

Fellow fans, the backlashes against the senbatsu announcement are a lot more serious than I previously thought... Just today some of my friends & families who are Nogizaka fans told me they want to quit the fandom. [sweat]

These aren't first-time, casual fans too, but mostly fans since the second single, & all of them have watched all NogiDoko episodes too! I only managed to convince them to stay by telling them to join the "don't buy a single" movement. They say if things don't change they're gone for good!

Any suggestions on how to retain these fans?
...I must say I am kind of impressed at how management managed to tick off every single one of my Nogizaka fan friends & families... [speechless]

 

Re: [SINGLE] Nogizaka46 4th Single [Title TBD] (Date TBD)

^
Yeah, I can see how Ikoma not being a consensus center can hurt the group. All I can say is ... I want to believe that Aki-P chooses Ikoma over Ikuchan for a good reason. I would like to think the reason is because of her unique personality and genuineness. Who knows what's the benefit of it compared to the harm of fan's displease though ... Hard to say. But from the look of things, I guess I'll say it's doing more harm than good.

Or maybe Aki-P just wants to piss the fans off on purpose to get them raging and create discussions ... wouldn't be the first time he does that I think.

And maybe there are things behind the scenes that we the fans are unaware of. Things Aki-P sees on a business level ... on a conceptual level ... on a grand purpose level ... it's not easy for us to say when we only see the whole thing from the perspective of being fans. Better ask Aki-P for all the answers.

As for your other point that Ikoma is guaranteed to be center and favored by management ... I wouldn't jump to conclusion about this so fast since it is only their 4th single. I wouldn't say Ikoma is so much "guaranteed" just yet. Let's wait and see for awhile longer ... Talk about members feeling their hard work doesn't matter ... I think a better example than Ikoma is Akimoto Manatsu ... but since we all have voiced our displease with that, I won't add anything more. =\

Finally, if people want to leave Nogizaka simply because of this senbatsu lineup ... then I am sorry to say that I don't think they were ever true fans. I'd just let them leave if that's what they really want to do. I LOVE Nogizaka and I am not going to leave them because of this tiny bump on this long journey ahead! I also will not support the "don't buy a single" movement. This senbatsu lineup is not even THAT horrible ... Seriously people, dramatic much? If you love them, then you shouldn't stop supporting them over such small matter!! HMPH!!

 

Re: [SINGLE] Nogizaka46 4th Single [Title TBD] (Date TBD)

I agree 100% with rust actually..(well i read it earlier so im too lazy to read it again)

I liked nogizaka ever since their debut but i had to catch up to nogidoko up until the phone call selection and i wasnt as annoyed as i was with any senbatsu except this one. Oide shampoo is still my favorite single because it was nice to see a change with some members shafted, some up, and secchan/yuminee in senbatsu (Even if the yuminee decision was probably based on her age). it gave me hope in the management. (at that point hoshino makes a better back member then a center and I dont even like kanarin that much)

Hashibike was okay too, although the 3 new members was a pure reflection off the undergirls positioning, at least they were new..

then there was the Parco results which they neglected. I didnt want them to take a lot of it into consideration (because that would discourage everyone else), but only just SOME.. like a possible ikuchan center, hoshino out, and kazumin back in k7. Now, going off by fan voting seems to be the best decision bc management isnt doing **** except showing favoritism to girls like hoshino and renarin (even though shes busy with school). Another thing that bothers me is amiami's decision. idg why you would blantly replace yuttan with someone thats only mediocrely popular and got in senbatsu before..especially since there are girls more popular then amiami in waiting like misamisa or nene. I don't mind ashurin even though i would have preferred nene (since ashurin is too young and been in senbatsu before I would rather have her lead UG, but she's popular so thats a smart but still stupid).
^ Another thing to tick off nogizaka fans, manatsu walks straight into k8 with kazumin smiling right above her I dont mind her being in senbatsu actually since she was originally the top 5 but thats too much

im not quitting nogizaka because they are my favorite group im just not buying this single until anything else is announced and if i do definitely not buying more then 1..

and Ikoma is never ever ever ever ever ever a better choice of a center if your putting her up against ikuchan because being weak minded only gets you sympathy, not so good for the groups sake

 

Re: [SINGLE] Nogizaka46 4th Single [Title TBD] (Date TBD)

sad about so many backlash (even if I do hate the line-up)
I'll still support the group, and I do love Ikoma as center because even if she didn't choose to be center, she really is trying [clap]

 

Re: [SINGLE] Nogizaka46 4th Single [Title TBD] (Date TBD)

^
^
^
I do think Ikoma is chosen over other members with good intentions. It just that good intention doesn't always equal right decisions unfortunately. I generally trust Aki-p to make right decisions, more so than fans, as he does have a lot more experience & information than us ever will. But he is human after all, not perfect, susceptible to bias, & won't always be right. Also, Nogizaka is a collaboration between Aki-p & Sony I believe, so it is entirely possible that this latest senbatsu is the work of Sony management, & not Aki-p. What I am trying to say is that my criticism of Nogizaka management doesn't equal criticism of Aki-p, as we don't really know the internal structure of Nogi management.

About my friend & family fans... I do think they are over-reacting, but I wouldn't call them untrue fans. One of them have tears dropping when she saw Kana crying, & have a sleepless night after that (she introduced me to Nogizaka too, hence was a fan way before I was.) Her mood is still visibly affected even today, two days after the announcement. My other fan friend says he haven't feel so bad since the last federal election! (I am not trying to make it partisan here, but just want to illustrate how emotionally invested he is into Nogizaka. Wiki Canadian General Election 2011 & look up Liberal & you will understand how devastating it was for him.) In the end, I think they just need a way to release their frustration, cause they are still really much paying attention to Nogizaka stuffs when I talk about it or is surfing the web about them.

It also seems like when they talk about leaving the fandom, they intent to continuing to support individual members, but want to punish management is some ways. Not having a proper way to contact Nogi management doesn't help I guess. [sealed]

Btw... update on Handshake! [clap]

Spoiler

白石
●●●●● 5/5
●●●●● 5/5
○○●●● 3/5
●●●●● 5/5[18/20]
橋本
●●●●● 5/5
○●●●● 4/5
○●●●● 4/5
●●●●● 5/5[18/20]
松村
●●●●● 5/5
●●●●● 5/5
○●●●● 4/5
●●●●● 5/5[19/20]
生田
●●●●○ 4/5
○○○○－ 0/4
○○○○－ 0/4
●●●●● 2/5[09/18]
生駒
○●●●● 4/5
○○○○－ 0/4
○○○●－ 1/4
●●●●● 2/5[10/18]
井上
○○○○○ 0/5
○○○－－ 0/3
○○○－－ 0/3
○○○○● 0/5[01/16]
西野
○●●●● 4/5
○●●－－ 2/3
○○●－－ 1/3
●●●●● 5/5[12/16]
高山
○●●●● 4/5
○○●－－ 1/3
○○●－－ 1/3
●●●●● 5/5[11/16]
中田
○○○○○ 0/5
○●－－－ 1/2
○○－－－ 0/2
○○○○● 1/5[02/14]
桜井
○○●○○ 1/5
－－○○－ 0/2
－－○○－ 0/2
○○●●● 3/5[04/14]
深川
○○○○○ 0/5
－－－○○ 0/2
－－－○○ 0/2
○○●●● 3/5[03/14]
若月
○○○●－ 1/4
○○○－－ 0/3
○○○－－ 0/3
○○●●－ 2/4[03/14]
斉優
○○○●－ 1/4
－－－○○ 0/2
－－－○○ 0/2
○○●●－ 2/4[03/12]
星野
○○○－－ 0/3
○○－－－ 0/2
○○－－－ 0/2
○○●－－ 1/3[01/10]
伊万
－－○○○ 0/3
－○○－－ 0/2
－○○－－ 0/2
－－○○○ 0/3[00/10]
衛藤
－－●●● 3/3
－－－●－ 1/1
－－－●－ 1/1
－－●●● 3/3[*8/*8]
畠中
－－○○○ 0/3
○－－－－ 0/1
○－－－－ 0/1
－－○○○ 0/3[*0/*8]
齋飛
○○○－－ 0/3
－－○－－ 0/1
－－●－－ 1/1
○●●－－ 2/3[*3/*8]
永島
○○○－－ 0/3
－－－○－ 0/1
－－－●－ 1/1
○○●－－ 1/3[*2/*8]
能條
○○－－－ 0/2
－－－○－ 0/1
－－－○－ 0/1
○○－－－ 0/2[*0/*6]
伊寧
○○－－－ 0/2
－－－－○ 0/1
－－－－○ 0/1
○○－－－ 0/2[*0/*6]
中元
－－－○○ 0/2
－－－－○ 0/1
－－－－○ 0/1
－－－○○ 0/2[*0/*6]
市來
－－－○○ 0/2
－－－－○ 0/1
－－－－○ 0/1
－－－○○ 0/2[*0/*6]
柏幸
－－－○○ 0/2
－－－－○ 0/1
－－－－○ 0/1
－－－○○ 0/2[*0/*6]
川後
○－－－－ 0/1
○－－－－ 0/1
○－－－－ 0/1
○－－－－ 0/1[*0/*4]
和田
○－－－－ 0/1
－○－－－ 0/1
－○－－－ 0/1
○－－－－ 0/1[*0/*4]
樋口
－○－－－ 0/1
－－○－－ 0/1
－－○－－ 0/1
－○－－－ 0/1[*0/*4]
斎ち
－○－－－ 0/1
－－－－○ 0/1
－－－－○ 0/1
－○－－－ 0/1[*0/*4]
川村
－－○－－ 0/1
－－－－○ 0/1
－－－－○ 0/1
－－○－－ 0/1[*0/*4]
岩瀬
－－－○－ 0/1
－－－○－ 0/1
－－－○－ 0/1
－－－●－ 1/1[*1/*4]
大和
－－－－○ 0/1
－－－○－ 0/1
－－－○－ 0/1
－－－－○ 0/1[*0/*4]
宮澤
－－－－○ 0/1
－－－－○ 0/1
－－－－○ 0/1
－－－－○ 0/1[*0/*4]
安藤
－－－－○ 0/1
－－－－○ 0/1
－－－－○ 0/1
－－－－● 1/1[*1/*4]

Someone also did a comment average ranking.
The five number are: Average, # of blog posts, total comments, most comments on a post, least comment on a post. The stars & circles are to indicate senbatsu & k7 status for the previous single.

Spoiler

平均 (投稿数・総コメ数・最多/最少)

1.★白石　　556 (15-8345-661/436)
2.★松村　　494 ( 8-3954-624/400)
3.○高山　　447 ( 9-4020-603/317)
4.★西野　　387 (13-5037-559/316)
5.★橋本　　347 (27-9371-439/274)
6.★生田　　338 (11-3715-436/244)
7.★生駒　　316 (23-7258-561/228)

8.　川村　　315 (11-3464-469/200)
9.○若月　　286 (20-5720-441/189)
10.○深川　　271 (29-7868-539/156)
11.★星野　　260 ( 2- 519-310/209)
12.○中田　　229 (24-5501-300/188)
13.○桜井　　229 ( 8-1831-289/166)
14.　齋藤飛　226 (11-2491-285/173)
15.　衛藤　　223 (11-2452-285/158)
16.　永島　　213 (17-3629-260/166)

17.○井上　　211 (19-4014-280/151)
18.　伊藤寧　192 (14-2686-413/127)
19.○斉藤優　187 (18-3362-247/147)
20.　畠中　　173 (29-5003-253/117)
21.　柏　　　172 ( 2- 343-187/156)
22.○市來　　168 (15-2524-213/131)
23.○伊藤万　157 (27-4241-202/ 93)
24.　川後　　153 ( 9-1378-262/103)
25.　中元　　152 (15-2278-207/106)
26.　樋口　　130 (14-1819-205/ 89)
27.　安藤　　122 (20-2445-244/ 57)
28.　和田　　115 (13-1493-158/ 75)
29.　能條　　113 (13-1475-154/ 92)
30.　大和　　102 (21-2151-132/ 74)
31.　斎藤ち　 89 (13-1159-120/ 63)
32.　宮澤　　 79 (16-1266-124/ 58)
33.　岩瀬　　 0 ( 0- 0- 0/ 0) 投稿なし

 

Re: [SINGLE] Nogizaka46 4th Single [Title TBD] (Date TBD)

^
^

Yeah, the backlash is large and kind-of depressing considering that the specific details of the single have not even been released yet.

Honestly, it is hard not to be disappointed with this line-up. True, the management have demonstrated that they can be relentless when it comes to the selection of Shichi Fukujin. When they removed Ikuta from the 2nd single SF, I was like, “What! The talented girl that is said to be Akip’s choice for center is out of SF?!” When they removed Kazumi from the 3rd single SF, I was like, “What?! Isn’t this funny girl placed in the first ever unofficial subgroup with favourites like Maiyan, Sayurin and Hashimoto? What happened?” At least, in both cases, they do have worthy replacements in the form Sakurai and Nanase. However, when it comes to the 4th single, who do we have after sacrificing Nanase? A girl that has been absent for a year and is now thrown into one of the top spots. What a good way to insult the rest of the members who were there since the beginning and built the group to the status that it is today. I am wondering if Himura-san, the host, is trying to be sarcastic when he asks Manatsu if she is related to Akimoto-sensei?

This one thing that we can at least be certain of: If Yoshimoto Sayaka is still around, she would not be Center.

yic17’s post a few posts really brings back memories as to why I was so into NGZK46 in the first place. It is NGZK46’s first performance last year at AKB48’s Request Hour. Ikoma’s speech at the end was touching. What made that part so special is that those lines were meant to come out strong. Instead, with Ikoma’s unintentional crying, the message came out softened and almost sounded like a plead. And it really fitted the situation of NGZK46 at that point: that they are a bunch of 33 newbies, underdogs that are made/forced to fight against the almighty idol juggernaut that is AKB48. Despite that, they want to succeed, support them! People can argue that it is AKip selling the tears of the girls once again and that Ikoma is placed to the position for it to be exploited. But Ikoma’s genuine and sincerity cannot be denied.

Fast forward one year and NGZK46 is now a force to be reckoned with. In a short time, they achieved results that few idol groups can dream of. At this stage, Ikoma’s position as the Center just IMO…seems kind of off? As hinatan pointed out, Ikoma character is somebody that could draw sympathy. But NGZK46 aren’t underdogs now, they are legit completion and it would be much harder to sell that idea to people now. It can be argued that they now have a captain (Sakurai) that can portray the counter-image, but the Center IS an influential position. What I think NGZK46 needs now is a Center that can be both graceful and strong (compared to Ikoma). It need not be Ikuta (based on popular opinion), it can be someone else (Maiyan, Matsumura?).

 

Re: [SINGLE] Nogizaka46 4th Single [Title TBD] (Date TBD)

^
Interesting points. While I can't say I agree or disagree with Ikoma not fitting as center due to Nogizaka not being an underdog anymore ... I personally do want to see a new center as well. We have seen Ikoma center 3 singles already ... we know what she brings to the table. I think it's a good idea that we get a new center and see what she's capable of considering how Nogizaka is still in it's early stage. The faster they try out a new center the better imo.

As for center candidate ... I can only see Ikuchan, Maiyan, and maybe Nanamin right now. Sayurin's image kind of puts her as a side kick forever.

 

Re: [SINGLE] Nogizaka46 4th Single [Title TBD] (Date TBD)

Have you (or your friend) considered that the management may have a perfectly good reason to kick her out of senbatsu? A reason we are just unaware of.

 

Re: [SINGLE] Nogizaka46 4th Single [Title TBD] (Date TBD)

^ Good day adaphon:

It is certainly possible that management have good reason (that we don not know of) to kick her out. I don't consider such a possibility really high however, quite low in fact. Here's why:

Spoiler

If such a good reason exist, it is certainly not because of popularity. Base on popularity, Kana is higher than Saito Asuka, Nojou Ami, Inoue Sayuri, Ichiki Rena, & Akimoto Manatsu (at least as of the time of the announcement.) I also consider her popularity to be on par with Fukagawa Mai, Sakurai Reika, Wakatsuki Yumi. She was voted into every single Parco stage (while maimai sadly fall once), & voted to top eight roles four times out of nine (compare to zero for maimai, & twice for yumi.) I think these are good evidence that rule out Kana being kick down due to merit.

While it is not because of merit, it is also not because of equity. Like I said, the two members who moved from under to senbatsu both participated in the first single, so it doesn't really help those who need help most. Sticking the above mentioned members on k8 or senbatsu despite having lower popularity than Kana isn't exactly fair either. So equity is ruled out too.

That leaves schooling, personal request/reasons, & undisclosed scandals as potential reasons. It is certainly not schooling, as she switched out of her original school (which had 60 偏差值, a Japanese # for ranking schools. 60 is considered above average) to those online course thingie that people who works in the entertainment industry often take. To me this indicate she was very serious about being in Nogizaka, & given up a good educational foundation for this. It is unlikely to be a personal request/reason in my opinion, judging from her reaction during the announcement. Kana cried, & this is unlikely if there's a personal reason/request.

As for undisclosed scandal, this is certainly a possibility, but one should not assume that is the case until there is evidence to do so. Such is the principle innocent until proven guilty. Doing otherwise will mean a lot of idols will be in trouble despite the fact they might have never done anything wrong! I can also easily devastate someone's career just by making an accusation too. One can also just assume that there's a "good reason" for every single move that management makes that doesn't make sense, but this is unlikely the case. Therefore, I consider such possibility low.

In the end, I think it is a lot more likely that Kana dropped because of management's personal preferences, not reasonable considerations. Now, I do think management have the right to push members they deem with potentials, but they need to do so adequately, & with consideration to merit & equity. I believe this senbatsu selection failed in this respect (pushed certain members too hard, shafting other members in process, no consideration to merit & equity,) so the collective backlash is hardly surprising. It is my hope that these wrongs can be fixed in future senbatsu selection.

It is totally possible that I have missed the possible "good reasons" in your mind too, if that it the case, I will be more than eager & happy to hear it. Thanks for the question btw.

Best regard.

 

Re: [SINGLE] Nogizaka46 4th Single [Title TBD] (Date TBD)

^
^
^To yic, about Sayuringo being centre...

I actually don't think it a bad idea!

Think about it, it is true that Sayurin is sort of well, sidekick-like, & seemingly really "natural" & "my-pace," but doesn't that make her a perfect attention grabber? She can more than hold her own in conversations with people as she has demonstrated in NogiDoko, & is she not really genuine too? Remember the time she was tearing cause she saw her own self in the birthday episode, or the time she was tearing when team adult totally crushed team young in the race? (Poor youngs.)

I don't think it is that far-fetched to see her as centre!
Of course, I would prefer Ikuchan, who's my oshi, but I would be perfectly content with Sayuri as well.

 

Re: [SINGLE] Nogizaka46 4th Single [Title TBD] (Date TBD)

Happens all the time. With idols it's more like when the scandal gets big enough, someone gets punished. Even for stuff they did before joining or just for causing misunderstandings.

How about stuff like lateness, bad behaviour? Maybe something happened between her and another member?