[GENERAL] The Sakurazaka46 / Keyakizaka46 Thread

technically they have, they just doesn't want to use them yet.....

 

I was careful to write that the ties among them "were presented as" being that strong. I can take no position on how strong their ties are compared to other groups, since I don't know other groups. In any case, the idea that their ties are strong is commonly stated, both by them and by fans. It's part of their founding myth, and it's a good myth (not "myth" in the sense of something untrue, but in the sense of a story they tell about themselves). Much better than being a group within which there is constant fighting to snatch a spot in the senbatsu, which is what I fear could happen if the whole group weren't being selected.

At first, I think people expected the senbatsu to be around 16 members, with some not chosen. As the 2-3-4 singles were being announced, I think even some members thought they were going to be dropped, until they wound up announced for the front row. Anyway, since last fall they have had a potential undergroup. They could easily have plucked someone to replace Zumiko temporarily. I think it was only sometime this year that Hiragana as a totally separate group became the thinking.

I'm not sure why what I wrote makes you think I'm calling them gods. I'm a fan. Why shouldn't I think this group feels different from others? It's obvious that they're different. Some people like the differences, some people don't. But the members remain fully human. In fact, I think there is more disagreement among them than we know about.

 

The "under members" thing died the second Zuumin went on hiatus and they decided to leave a massive gap in the formation rather than have a gana member fill in for her. It's not rocket science. They debuted together in the 1st single, Neru joined them all for the second one, and by the third one they really needed to solidify their "top" members. From that point it became "all the back girls need a chance at the front", and you can't do that if you drop the number of girls from senbatsu. Even from the 3rd single, fans were already talking about not seeing a new center, or not seeing a change in senbatsu lineup until the 6th single, so really everything is playing out just as we expected it to.

However now we've reached a point where the general public know Keyaki as how we see them in senbatsu, which is just Kanji. These 21 girls are Keyakizaka46. So they can either go the senbatsu route and have some kanji swapped out for hiragana members, or they can do double a-sides. They're the only two logical outcomes for this situation which can maintain the groups sales and momentum while keeping kanji in the public eye and pushing hiragana members into the spotlight.

 

Can anyone briefly explain about this article ? It seems to me that when Techi sings Fukyouwaon, her health deteriorates and so management change the song to Kaze Ni in somemusic show (?) ..correct me if im wrong ... techiiiii

 

According to the story, it's about the Record Taisyou (Record Award) that will be held on Dec.30. The Sony management worries about Hirates condition and demands to change the nominated song from Fukyouwaon to Kaze. The Award should be given in principle not to artist but to song, so it is very unusual case.

I don't know whether the story is true or not.

 

In my opinion it is because of the camera more, when they're airing the radio they don't need to maintain their expression etc, and also more one on one talking... yep, when you hear them on radio they're completely different, Hirate, Koike, especially Berika with any of her quiz lol

 

They may appear more bonded compared to the mess that is current AKB right now, and I agree they are one of a kind for a major idol group, but we are only at the 5th single. Assuming humanity makes it at least half way through the 21st century, sooner or later, someone in kanji most likely will be dropped from senbatsu, whether it be because a hiragana replaces them, or if management decides to use a smaller number of people. And when that happens, while it won't be as bad as AKB (members will be picked rather than having to literally (and somewhat metaphorically) fight for senbatsu spots), there will be... discord... within the group. Not just behind the scenes, that is.

As for them being "human", I don't really understand what you mean by this. Do you mean down to earth? Do you mean being "real"?

Either way, they are not "human" in my opinion, they may make songs about liberation, love, standing up, being independent, not being controlled, as well as some sensitive topics such as suicide and sexual misconduct, but they are still technically owned by someone (Sony) via their contract, working for an industry that virtually turns women into products and abuses neo-sexual themes to make them sell, and has been known for... shady things... occuring within the ranks of management. Keyaki, or any idol group, being representative of liberal values, women's rights, and "youth independence" from the older generation that runs the world is about as correct as saying China is a champion of human rights. An idol group can't really claim to support any of those things given their nature, let alone any sort of entertainment "artist" who purely does their work for money.

I want to address this not specifically towards you but about the topic in general. On Stage48, the Keyaki fandom is certainly more "worshipper like" compared to the people who primarily browse the AKB section. I can't speak for Nogi. But the only other places on the forum where there is as much "worship" are either the Mayuyu (Watanabe Mayu) thread, the Yokoyama Yui thread, or to a lesser extent, the Renacchi (Kato Rena) thread, all in the AKB sub forum. The majority of posts, from what I have seen checking threads weekly/daily (with the exception of a few month long breaks for travel), within the Keyaki sub forum and three aforementioned AKB member threads, are much more worshippy than any other place on the forum.

Not in the sense the people literally worship them as gods, but "speak" very highly of whatever member, saying almost nothing negative. That's not to say we have to post something negative, but the posts feel very "gushy" compared to other posts in other sections of the forum. More emotional than "discussion-al". I too am a part of this at times. Based some of the links you have provided (information from various Japanese language idol sites) the "gushiness" (as in, gushing emotions) is present in the Japanese fandom as well.

This "gushiness" isn't a bad thing, but it is understandable that it can be unpleasant. This is the internet however, and so long as it is done in a civilized manner, we all are entitled to our opinions unless you are a nazi.

P.S.-

Spoiler: Keyaki myth

About the Keyaki founding "myth", a better word would be "tale".

Definitions of myth-

1. A traditional story which embodies a belief regarding some fact or phenomenon of experience, and in which often the forces of nature and of the soul are personified; a sacred narrative regarding a god, a hero, the origin of the world or of a people, etc.

2. (uncountable) Such stories as a genre.

3. Myth was the product of man's emotion and imagination, acted upon by his surroundings. (E. Clodd, Myths & Dreams (1885), 7, cited after OED)

4. A commonly-held but false belief, a common misconception; a fictitious or imaginary person or thing; a popular conception about a real person or event which exaggerates or idealizes reality.

5. A person or thing held in excessive or quasi-religious awe or admiration based on popular legend

6. A person or thing existing only in imagination, or whose actual existence is not verifiable.

Definition of tale-

1. A fictitious or true narrative or story, especially one that is imaginatively recounted.

 

i really disagree with this statement. the girls (and any other person signed to a contract) are not owned by anyone they're part of an employer\employee relationship. this is not slavery.

 

Here are the group's greeting cards for December, with translations. No Hirate again this month. We'll see if she posts late, as in November. And no 2gens, yet. I'm expecting them to pop up next month, after they have performed at the Hiragana lives on 12-13 December. More masterworks from Koike, Kobayashi and Naako:



@keyakikageyama848 -- I'm always happy to realize that people posting are also fans of other groups. It broadens the viewpoint, since I'm only really a fan of Keyaki, with a bit of knowledge of Nogi and very little of 48 groups. I'm surprised that we seem so worshipful. I have always felt that of some otaku following older groups. But if we are a bit more emotional, perhaps it is by osmosis from the generally younger fandom of Keyakizaka? It is true, however, that there is very little criticism here, and although I sometimes add a little negative after some positives about a member, I don't like to offend fans too much. This intention to keep a fairly pleasant tone of conversation might be a little unusual. Are there more female fans here, perhaps?

I'm also surprised to see that Oxford has such a limited view of the word "myth" (I checked). Webster's (the US authority) has a definition that just about covers the way I use it, and have seen others use it: 1 a : a usually traditional story of ostensibly historical events that serves to unfold part of the world view of a people or explain a practice, belief, or natural phenomenon.

The "people" in this case are the Keyaki-chans. The myth of their "humility, kindness, bonds" was probably given them by management, but based on their own natures, and they have been playing it out, as far as we can see, fairly closely. They certainly seem to look to it as a slogan of their nature, if nothing else. We each have myths, in my way of thinking: stories about our past that typify or explain our personal characteristics. This expansion of the original use of "myth" is quite common now. And if it weren't, I would expand it myself, since it is very useful.

Perhaps it is harder to see the religiosity when you are a fan feeling it, and much easier when you find it exaggerated and/or unjustified. "Gushiness" would only be"unpleasant" to someone who couldn't feel the reason for it. In fact, "gushiness" would be called "enthusiasm" by someone who agreed with the feeling. Fandom is an emotional thing, not rational. Intellectual explanations can be fun -- and I overindulge in them myself -- but they can be rather beside the point, it seems to me.

EDIT: I just remembered watching the KeyaKake ep from last December where they gave a world-premiere performance of Futari Saison in a guerrilla live at a girls' junior high and high school. Even I would call some students' reactions "gushing." And that's one of my favorite KeyaKake episodes of all. Tears to my eyes.

 

@keyakikageyama848
Gushiness, huh. Hmm, that might be true. Though I'm probably on the gushy, positive, overly enthusiastic side of Keyaki fans (not that I post much here), when I step back for a moment to look at how I approach idols, I think I some times see them more as "characters" who I can follow with interest rather than "people." (How depressing, huh. But I still fell in love with them nonetheless.)

@ukifune
The greeting cards... It's that time of month again. Berika's greeting card is somehow amazing. When I saw it, I couldn't stop laughing. Aoko is a god. Aoko is everywhere.

 

The control management has over the girls makes it less "normal" employee/employer relationship and more neo-slavery like IMO. Slavery is a strong word though, I guess "controlled" would be better. The main example is the no dating policy that makes it so abnormal and darker.

The pleasant-ness is a good thing. The discussion might not have any "informational value", or carry any deeper ideas or thoughts it could have, but if everyone is enjoying sharing the experience of Keyaki, all is good.

Also, I don't believe gender decides personality and behavior in human beings, traits appearing to have been inherited from parents may be the foundation, but everything in human behavior and personality development is triggered by things in the daily environment from childhood to one's final years.

Hmm, myth may in the technical sense work, but I was thinking along the lines of US society- myth is generally a more inflammatory term, used to describe something fake or "obviously" untrue, or fanciful. The Keyaki story isn't like bigfoot or alien abductions as much as it is like the Battle of Stalingrad, for lack of better analogy.

Your point on "gushiness" is spot on. Also, it has hard to believe that was a year ago. It seems like just yesterday. Considering Nogi is nearing their 20th single, it is interesting to think about what it will be like when Keyaki's 20th arrives, and what it feel like looking back on the measly 3rd single and thinking "I was there [when it was released]".

Furthermore, Keyaki seems to get better and better with each single and we are only at No. 5, it will be interesting to see what will happen by 20, especially with graduations being unthinkable.

You aren't really supposed to fall in love with them as people. They are characters, and that is something wotas need to remember so we don't have flares being fired into the crowds at handshake events. Really, any entertainment figure someone maintains as an "oshimen" (be it in the west or east, actor, singer, or idol, Hirate or Tom Hanks) is loved as a character. Very few people know the figures personally compared to the amount of fans they have, you are more of a fan of them because of their "character" or work rather than as a person.

 

doesn't she has enough time to recover? To once again do a hell of a fukyouwaon performance?

Let's be real; if we have to do a kaze ni fukaretemo from mstation or a Fukyouwaon double encore from makuhari finale with flour and blood, what do you think will make the biggest impact?

I know fukyouwaon is hard but it's the kouhaku we're talking about. We always go all in.

 

It's the girls that goes all in, Gocchi. Not us.

 

i am not an idol or in idol management, so i can't speak directly to the extremes.

if a often times just don't get caught no datIng policy is the worst example, the girls really don't have it that bad. Even without the rule most idols wouldn't date or would hide it because of fans

 

About this dating thing, IIRC there was a court ruling in japan this or last year that said that they cannot really put this in their contracts.
But record companies have done really crass things in the pass, especially sony records, like preventing artist from releasing materials, which is in a sense prevents artists from making money to feed themselves. But they cannot directly control the way you live your life.

 

The court ruling was only because an agency tried to sue an idol for damages caused from her dating scandal, pretty stupid on the agencies side.

 

idol and fans are like family. We do our best together.

Idol gives us energy. With our call, we share back. And a great concert is born!

thus the reason i use "we". in a general way

 

Ozeki, Nijika, Aoi and Fuuchan on radio (12-1-2017)


if the video does not show watch the video here


source

Keyaki-chan on「anan」2082 cover



https://mdpr.jp/news/detail/1731563

Keyaki-chan will be on Music Station Super Live on Dec 22nd 2017 (7pm JST)

http://www.tv-asahi.co.jp/music/superlive2017/

 

The fact they don't have the right to openly because of fans is the problem in my opinion. Management is adding to it by allowing fans to hold this "my idol must be a virgin" and not allowing them at least the right to date openly, whether they want to or not. Even if they did give them the right, the fact fans still have problems with them dating is something bad. But that has to do with idols in general rather than Keyaki, and at this point it is getting a little off topic.

I did not mean for the "controlling their life" to be taken literally. They just have a few of abnormal restrictions on what they can do.

 

Errr, Which Kouhaku that include fans live attendance is this?

Sorry, I guess I lost in context here.

I share the notion of this viewpoint. Also something wotas need to remember so we can have fewer mazes of armchair philosophical thought. However, I understand this process may take time and not everyone can handle that. +1