[GENERAL] The AKB48 Thread

About the MC, I've been thinking about that too... it's true that MC talks now usually feel repetitive and often boring, sometimes even having an old gen or funny member around doesn't help the new girls. I mean, girls like Yukirin let herself teased by other members to make things fun but it's not like they can spend the whole MC time doing that, and it would stop being funny if they keep doing it. I'll mention the new NMB gen again (yes I'm getting to know them right now XD) but I saw this video where they introduced themselves one by one and each member had to show her skill. I found it funny and interesting even for members who don't have anything special to show, they can do things like memorizing a text or numbers then try saying them, it brings funny moments when they fail. I feel like instead of giving a basic theme and every girl says 2 words about it, they could do some activity or game to make the MC parts more unique and fun (it doesn't have to be games where they move, I know they use MC time to rest between songs, it can be games involving talking).

You're right that a lot of fans have left, I didn't notice it too much until recently but a lot of the fans who were very active online (in this forum or other places) have dissapeared or they changed to other idol groups. I'm also surprised at the amount of AKB fans who turned to Kpop fans after Produce48, I honestly didn't think that it would happen, like I didn't feel that so many Kpop fans turned to AKB fans after the show (maybe a few?) but I noticed a lot of AKB (or Jpop fans) turn to Kpop fans after the show. it's kinda sad because AKB/Jpop have less international fans to begin with so the fact that the show made them lose more than gain... it's a bit sad. well, many graduations happened too which also caused fans to leave.

We're sharing a lot of ideas here but in the end it will all depend on management to do something good :/

Being funny is a natural skill that depends on personnalities but I think management could help the members to do better at MC and to possibly develop a funnier personnality, like I said they can do games or activities during MC parts, and maybe do shows (it can be online) with skits similar to what they did before with Bimyo or AKB48 Show! (I miss that T_T)

Mayuyu wasn't one of the variety members during her time but even she had a lot of interesting and funny moments and a "chara". Shows like AKBINGO! etc. help to create this...

 

@dutchie
I for one cannot sense any kind of development from the same repetitive I ate this ,I saw that lines. I think handshake events and livestream is where you get to witness development.
And I think it is no coincidence that the same MCing keeps repeating over and over again. There has to be some kind scripting behind that too. Professionals could help then come up with interesting games and jokes which although not their own would help to show off their crowd control skills during MCs. At least the audience would be entertained rather than knowing what they had for breakfast.

Back in the start of the Heisei idol era it was okay to act cute and all but I feel this era is different. People look down upon idol groups because they are seen to be kind of freelancers who act cute to get paid with no talent. This is what affects AKB members a lot in their self confidence as a result. Of course it is by no means true as every field no matter how easy it seens always needs you to work hard to make it anywhere near the cream of the crop. And AKB has been among the cream of the crop in their own genre for quite some time. But now times are changing and the past management has been resisting this change for quite some time now. We can only hope things will be any different with the new one.

 

A 'good' song is subjective to the viewer. I like NMB's datte x3 song but it's not a 'relevant' idol song at all. 'Relevant' means to keep up with the current times, be 'in the moment', on trend. Songs that are 'relevant' and popular within that current time tend to be hits, even if it's a shit song (and none of the songs i mentioned are).
Sorry but your definition of 'relevant' is weird, so forgive me for misinterpreting what you meant. Next time try simply saying "I don't think 46g has as many good songs as 48g" if that is what you meant.

 

finally, another drama to sell!

now I started to think that having a fixed center is a good thing (from the general public point of view) because it will help AKB48 to gain some recognition whenever the member appears on tv or magazine.
Oguri Yui, Yamauchi Mizuki, or Fujizono Rei. DH should make it clear who is gonna be the face of AKB48.

that is very unusual of you agreed about yukarin popularity!

 

I always thought that a fixed center is a good thing... One of the problems for non-fans is that they see a group with 20 girls on stage and they have no idea who it is, it's not like AKB is the only "big" group either now. Having a fixed center and "overpushing" her might sound annoying to fans of other members, but it's for the good of the whole group, if the girl picked as center gets a huge push and it works, technically it brings popularity to the whole group and to the other members as result. Then management can push other girls here and there.

I know that from a fan's point of view, it's nicer to have different centers each release, but I feel like changing center at every release can only be done if the group is successful (Nogi is doing this now and it's not a problem). when the group is not popular (like a new group) or lost popularity (like AKB) they need to have someone represent the group as the "face" so the public can recognize the group and start loving other members by association.

Yes sometimes having a fixed center won't work, for example if the girl picked as fixed center doesn't get popular, or if the girl picked as fixed center gets too popular and bigger than the group itself. But even in these situation, the group still ends up getting popular (for example Ikoma didn't get popular but her lack of popularity made people who were against her center become more supportive to other girls in the group, for example Techi got too popular for Keyaki but the other members still got popular and despite all issues, the group is still fine now)

Although I can't really think of which member could be fixed center among the current members but management can still try it and see the results, then if they debut a new gen in the next years, they can maybe find another ace who will get popular with the public... I guess it's worth giving it a try. but first, they need to release more singles though... even just release one for a start Hopefully 2021 has at least 3 singles.

 

Fujizono Rei and Hasegawa Momoka

I never denied she's popular

 

@minaeshi
So A good song can be subjective but a relevant song can't be. So a good song can't be relevant according to you if it was released a while back and since it is not in the now. Well to me, a relevant song can be subjective too and if its good I don't care if its not in the now. With your definition of relevance being non subjective people wouldn't listen to anything not released within the last couple of years. Old songs would be all deemed irrelevant.

And Yes I did say 48g has more good songs than 46g anf it should be seen as a fact I believe since they have been around for longer in the same genre. Now how you interpret it is up to you.

 

Spoiler: My last response to this because you're kinda sailing away from the point.

Sorry but you're drifting away from the context here and jumping to conclusions that I never came to lol so let's reel it back in shall we?
We were specifically talking about relevancy within the context of AKB being dropped from Kouhaku, a tv show that presents the (arguably) most popular, well known, and recognizable artists that year. We weren't talking about what we personally thought was a good or bad song, which is why I interpreted your post wrong.
Kouhaku performers are typically either two things;
1. artists who have created such a strong legacy for themselves that they can appear and perform the same song for years, and the general public don't mind hearing it.
2. artists with songs which are relevant to the current times, popular/trendy/most talked about in that specific year or last few years, and recognizable to the general public.

Those two categories aren't decided on the feelings of the individual. While AKB do have a strong legacy in their own right, are still an idol group at the end of the day. Their legacy isn't as huge as the enka singers who have been there for 20/30+ years, and their activities the last few years hasn't justified keeping them on the list. So if NHK need to make room for a more popular, trendy, and relevant artist like Babymetal or the Sakamichi's, they will make that sacrifice regardless of whether you think a song is good or not.

So let's bring back your original comment;

You might think that a song or artist is good because it's relevant and subjective to you, the individual. But NHK doesn't just look at what lamoodoley thinks is relevant, they look at what the general public collectively thinks of the artists and the songs. In this context, a relevant song is one that is popular, trendy, most talked about i.e. a hit. KFC is still a hit, 365 is still a hit, that's why they've gotten away with performing different variations of it for years. However;

My original response;

If you simply said what you did out of context it would not have been questioned because it's simply your opinion. You think 48g has more good songs that 46g because they've been around longer. Again, subjective to you since it's your opinion, so I don't care to comment. So like I said, next time use better wording in your posts so that people don't misinterpret what you're saying.

I agree with pretty much all the points here. There is a very fine line between pushing a member as a fixed center, and over pushing them to the point of no return. I'm inclined to believe it's due to Aki-P's influence, especially after the keyaki situation where he literally tried to end the group because of Techi's departure. But also due to management not knowing when it's time to move on from a good thing and try something new. I think while it is good to have a fixed center, I think it's useless to rotate the rest of the members yet keep the center the same. All it does is confuse the viewer, and the only thing that lets them know it's the same group is the center (again, keyaki had this issue). What AKB got right was solidifying the girls behind Acchan as well. Even if Acchan was absent for from reason, you would still recognize the original Kami 7 members. Obviously the ssk helped with that a lot, but they kept that good thing going.
I think it would be easy for them to simply pick a set of girls that both they and the fans like, and push them as the new kami 7. Kinda like how Sakurazaka are doing right now with the whole Sakura 8 thing. Make a set of girls appear for everything! Media senbatsu if you like lol, and just get them out there so that when the general public see a advert or cm or magazine, they know 'oh this is a member of akb'. In this case I actually think they've been taking a step in the right direction this year. I'll be honest and say this time last year I couldn't tell you who half the girls in this newest senbatsu were, but because they have appeared frequently together, I can now name them all again.

I'm a longtime fan though, so it would be easy for me to figure it out. The average person will have a harder time doing this, so I think their best bet is putting all their efforts into promoting a specific group of girls (kami 7, media senbatsu) for the next year. If the general public look at say, Naachan, Yuiri, Mion, Seichan, Satone, Yuiyui and Zukkii, as the new faces of the group, even if they use say Yuiyui as center 3 singles in a row, then Zukkii 3 singles, or rotating them each single with the 2nd one always being right beside them, I really think the group will be alright.

 

I would pick Yuiri as fixed center. Too bad, management decided to push her as part of (fake) lesbian couple (according to username welp )

 

I don't think it's the pandemic really that causes AKB to crash, but it DEFINITELY sped it up. If they could have handshake events, they probably would've been able to carry on, albeit on a smaller scale. But when you look honestly, a lot of entertainment has actually been doing well under the pandemic since people have more time at home. It's not *that* hard to switch to virtual events and make money from them, and you can see streamers and stuff are doing really well. I think for the most part, as mentioned above, the hardcore fans just aren't really there.

In terms of int fans, I think a lot of the AKB fans that switched to kpop or other idol groups were probably on their way out already. I think is because the fandom culture could be kind of toxic. I'll explain why I think this way.

Imo, AKB management actually tried a lot to make things fresh and interesting and actually put *some* effort into pushing new members at around 2014-2016 (even though they still pushed a lot of old-guard members.)

The main issue is, I think, with AKB's whole model, which encourages a lot of competition that can get stressful to deal with as a fan. Even worse, newer girls are forced to compete with more established girls. Oh, and also, when a new girl gets a good push, a lot of backlash happens. Oh yeah, but ALSO, there's a lot of backlash when a new girl is popular, but not getting a push. Oh, and how could I forget-- when old gen members stick around, rightfully or not, there is yet again, backlash (the awkward silence when Kojiharu announced grad? Yikes), even though a lot of people might still be interested in them and they might bring in lots of money if they're popular.

Anyway, yeah. There was just a lot of toxicity in AKB fandom in general for a long time, unfortunately. Social media culture makes it way worse tbh! I think over time, fans are less and less likely to want to stick around after their oshi leaves because it's just not a fun space sometimes. The NGT scandal was the logical conclusion of a business model based on fans mass-buying. On all sides there will be a blind eye turned to awful behaviour from fans, members, staff... if it feeds the metaphorical beast.

And! I'm not being self-righteous with that! I think I was toxic in the height of my AKB fandom as well lol.

But yeah, not a huge surprise that there's not much interest in sticking around when our favourites graduate. That's without even getting into the fact that there isn't much variety in the members, since someone brought up boring MCs. But that's a whole other essay!

 

Its not me drifting from the point but you.

I never talked about relevancy within the point of AKB being dropped from kouhaku and yes you surely interpreted my post wrong. I was replying to a comment made by another user who said that KFC was the only real good song he could think of that AKB could perform at kouhaku . To this I said there were more relevant songs that AKB could perform ( Relevant to this context i.e. good J-Idol songs that anyone with a genuine interest in J-Idol songs would like ). All was well till here, Then came you along, attached the dictionary meaning of “Relevance”, to the adjective ,”Relevant”, I was using and commented about how a relevant song is a hit trendy song , a song in the now. I assumed you weren’t aware of the context I was using the adjective " Relevant " for in that regard and so explained about how “ A relevant song means a good song and not necessarily a hit. “ But for whatever reason the point flew over your head and you insisted on how ,” My definition of relevant was weird”.

Ok this is tiring but I will still try. “ Relevant “ is an adjective that can be used like any other adjective to qualify different qualities in different contexts. If someone is taking about what kind of good lies one can come up with then any good lie would be “ Relevant “ in that regard. If you are talking about good J-idol songs like I was in that instance then any good J-idol song would be considered “ Relevant ”. See its not that hard .

I was talking about Relevant ( i.e. good songs incase you misinterpret it again ) J-Idol songs other than KFC that AKB could have performed at Kouhaku over the past few years when they still had the chance and definitely not about what NHK and you think is relevant this year. But once again you funnily misinterpreted my words and started talking of Hits and what not. You think they should have stuck with hits like KFC and 365 , Very well that’s your opinion just like them missing the chance to perform other good songs is mine.

And Yes 48g has more good songs than 46g . You call it my opinion but I see it as a fact as AKB has been around for longer in the same genre , has enjoyed a similar degree of success to 46g in its heybay, both were under the same production for a long time and 46g was built upon the success of 48g. Most importantly 48g has a good load of good theatre songs which supplement the number as opposed to 46g having none. You speak like you don’t agree with this. So basically you mean to say 46g has either the same number or more good songs than 48g . This I would find it hard to digest as unbiased on a purely musical standpoint but Its your opinion so be it.


Enough posts from me about this, I hope you see the misunderstanding here. Ok I am outie.

 

Well then I apologize for responding to your comment with the assumption that you were talking about the topic everyone else was discussing at that time.

Dude you need to stop claiming that I said things that I never said. That's twice you conclude me to have said something that I literally did not type out. It's rude. I simply said that it's your opinion so I wouldn't comment on it. Likewise, had you said before "i think 48g has more good songs than 46g", and I knew it was not being in the context of kouhaku, I wouldn't have responded to your comment in the first place because I simply would not have cared since like you said, it wasn't part of the topic.

 

I didn’t say you typed it out , Did I ? I said I assumed so because of the undertone in your replies. And since we are talking about claiming who said what, This is what I actually said

I was not dissing 46g but rather reminding the other commenter about how AKB has a lot of good songs too as he said, ' KFC was the only real good song he thought AKB had to perform at kouhaku.' As a matter of fact, I think at this rate of popularity 46g will surpass AKB’s lead in a few years for sure.

But this is what you made out of it.

But anyways, I accept your apology for the earlier instance and hope you will accept mine in this regard as maybe I misread the undertone.

 

LOL speaking of toxic, you see how toxic sakamichi fans is on the internet mostly Japanese one, you see when akb release hanarete itemo, twitter buzzing with 乃木坂のパクリ and also on youtube comment. AKB fans is just bunch of oldman they're grown up enough and mostly don't care with all of that. Gosh im enough with stage46 you can banned me idc

 

The 48 Groups are at this point essentially exactly what Aki-p said he hoped they'd become. A fixture of Japanese culture phenomena that won't necessarily go away like a passing fad but definitely fade into the background with time.

Like if you as a foreigner went to Japan the 48 Groups would be something that your tour guide or translator would recommend to you to check out in the same way they might suggest an old reliable restaurant that's seen much higher traffic in its heydays as the hottest of new restaurants around.

Regarding the matter of idol characters/personalities a lot of idols build their characters or have them built around real life personality traits they possess because it makes it easier on the idol to be consistent in maintaining that character she presents to the public. This said girls between ages 10 and 25 are only so diverse in their personalities which ultimately has led to idols repeatedly being famous for a collection of stereotypical personalities with someone with a rare one popping up once in a blue moon for over 30 years now. It's hardly an issue that plagues only the 48 Groups.

I also sincerely doubt it is particularly high on any fan's (be they casual or hardcore) list of reasons why they either moved on or will move on after their favorite(s) graduates/withdraws/gets dismissed or fired. Casuals on the general whole tend to follow what's hot. More often than not they are made of the pretenders among fanbases and are not actually interested just waiting for the next big thing to come along.

In the case of the 48 Groups they still have relative popularity but the 46 Groups the new it idols on the scene so to speak now have absolute popularity. Once that happens things can go one of three ways. The management behind the former big thing will give up on said thing and let it fall to the wayside and fade off into obscurity, put an end to it by way of disbandment/indefinite hiatus, or make an effort to revitalize interest.

The 48 Groups are ultimately in a rut for the later because The Rona won't allow them to efficiently turn things around for a while yet. By the time they get to make a full blown effort to revitalize interest a lot of people will simply have found something to move on to from them. Namely the 46 Groups and yes that ever growing phenomena known as K-pop.

For things to turn around I think the 48 Groups would have to do a wide range of things including but not limited to:
-Debut New Stages for each Team in each group's respective theater once the virus cools its jets. For as much as the theaters are an afterthought they still provide a venue where they can make regular money, but if they just keep reusing the old stages it's not exactly going to be the best temptation to get a ticket and come to see their shows. Especially given the idea is to revitalize interest from existing fans first and reel in new ones second. For a new fan who never heard of them or saw their old stages that old material won't be dull, but at this point in their existence the likelihood that new people will be joining the fandom is significantly more scarce than it was in the 2010s.
-Take as much advantage of the internet as possible. Release every music video in full to YouTube and let the views build up from both veteran fans and new ones. Divide the girls into duos, trios, quartets, and quintets and let them do online lives regularly in the form of a virtual concert tour rather than one off concerts. Start an online variety show and let more girls open their own YouTube accounts. Heck let them become Twitch streamers if they want to. Just get them out there or let them get themselves out there more often and more tangibly.
-Refine their virtual handshake format and system so that it's more pleasing to the consumer. The first and most obvious way is honestly to extend the amount of time a fan has with the idol in these to anywhere from 60-90 seconds.
-Don't get overly hasty with bringing in new members. Make better use of the ones they already have.
-Be more willing to take the risk of lower sales so that the fans these groups still do have are not just yelling "do something already!" into the void.

 

I personally would love to see a wcenter of Yuiyui and Zukki for a song like Beginner, River, UZA, etc. Both of them are pushed as quite the typical beauty, but looking back, Acchan wasn't known as a strong or fierce girl, and she stilled centred at least some of their autumn singles. They were also originally going to give UZA to Mayuyu, if I remember correctly, and although she didn't centre it, she performed the song as part of senbatsu and it wasn't weird at all.

I think this may be paired with the lack of content we got from AKB. I personally still consider myself a fan of AKB48 and its sister groups, but they used to be the only Asian pop act I used to listen to up until 2018/19. There was so much to do – AKB48 had 4-5 singles a year, so many concerts, then also all the sister groups and sub-units like No Sleeves, French Kiss, Watarirouka Hashiritai, DiVA, etc. There was soooo much content, there was barely any time to get invested in anything else.

Now they've slowed down, no AKBingo, no Sousenkyo, no Janken, and due to the pandemic, also no concerts. Yoshida Akari's graduation was the most exciting (although also sad) part of my year when it comes to 48G stuff. As a foreign fan, there is barely any content. I can't attend the theatre, which is basically their only main activity. I do listen to Kpop now, but I also listen to loads of other Japanese acts like ZOC, Juice=Juice, LiSA, Faky, etc. I wouldn't say I've moved on from AKB to K-pop, but their lack of important/impactful activity has made it a lot easier to start listening to other stuff and getting into other groups/acts.

I think the three quotes above kind of belong together, so I won't reply to them separately.

I think all of the following issues create one bigger issue; the lack of a centre.

• Watching the 2018 AKB48 documentary, you can see there is a massive gap between AKB48 old gens and AKB48 new gens. By gap I mean socially – the 16ki and 3rd Draft members didn't interact with the likes of Yukirin, Miichan, Yuihan and even 14ki Naachan even if they were part of the same senbatsu or event or whatever. The 16ki were sitting in the narrow hallway, eating their lunches while squatting against the wall, as the older gens got dressed. I can't remember who pointed it out, but a member from a sister group (maybe someone from HKT48?) said that when the old and new gens work together, they work together; they talk to each other and become friends. The only exception to this was Yahagi Moeka (who would infamously sit on Sasshi's lap in the break room).
• Because of the way the AKB48 model works, the members are super jealous of each other's success. The original gens were trying to beat each other, but their main goal was to make AKB48 popular. Acchan probably had haters within the group, but she also had supporters like Takamina. Even Yuko seemed to encourage her when they were at their roughest against one another. I think maybe Tomochin wasn't happy with Acchan and her success, but she was probably in the minority. I'm gonna mention her again, but when Yahagi Moeka became super boosted (solo concert, senbatsu locked, solo A-side center, senbatsu at big events like Sasshi's gradcon), her gen mates didn't seem to like that and there were lots of rumours about bullying. Acchan, as well as Moeka, received a lot of hate from fans, and Acchan eventually decided to leave as well, but she was able to deal with it for many years at the front of the group because she had support within her team. If Moeka had been supported by her gen- and teammates, rather than bullied, she could have really thrived.
• The sister groups have too strong of a hold on AKB48. Up until this year, I could agree that sister group members deserved a spot on AKB48 singles because AKB released 3-5 singles and sister groups only one. Now, the only reason why sister group members are included is because otherwise AKB48 singles wouldn't sell a million. They need all the other group's aces/known members like SKE's Jurina, NMB's Miru, HKT's Miku, NGT's Hinata (debatable given NGT48's status in the public's eye) and STU's Yumiko so that people will buy the single because that's the members whose handshake events the buyers want to attend. I think this is doing more harm to the group in the long run.

TL;DR. The members need to work together for a common goal. They need to realise that, if one member becomes successfully pushed, it will reward all of their careers in the end. Yahagi Moeka could have been our saviour and nobody can convince me otherwise.

 

I really want them to turn things around, but where do they even start to course correct? They've had two years of no events, concerts, so-so singles with coupling tracks that all sound exactly the same (and also, no individual team songs anymore), have lost a few potential aces and to top it all off they don't have AKBingo anymore and STILL - two years on - have the spectre of the whole NGT managerial fuck-up hanging over their heads. Which wouldn't be the case if that had been dealt with properly. (Voiceover: It wasn't)

AKB just feels. . . tired. Diminished. It's like if you watch a TV show for years, but then all your favourite characters go out of the show. Sure they bring new characters in, but it's just not the same, and the writing and acting has gone from HBO to CW quality.

For me, nostalgia is the biggest factor in me still following the group at all, and that's waning and has been, gradually, since around about the time Team 8 and 16th gen were introduced whom. . . I just feel pretty ambivalent about. I mean nothing against them but I just never connected to a single one of them the way I did with - for example - 12th to 14th gen who were so, so good. Or, you know, the original few gens' members. I mean aside from literally a handful of current members - Naachan, Yuirii, Renacchi, Yuihan, Yukirin - most of whom are probably on the cusp of graduating soon(ish), I just don't have any feelings about anyone else. Which again, no slight on them but I just don't connect. And it's sort of the same with NMB, HKT and SKE - they just feel. . . diminished.

I started following the group a decade ago, they were my gateway to idol groups - but now we're KIND of in a climate musically where we're spoilt for choice in a way we weren't back then - there are a gajillion groups to follow with different concepts and diverse musical styles from your big highly polished Sakamichi groups to smaller more DIY models who are easier to follow, maybe are more connected to their fanbase and utilise social media like YouTube BETTER (some small groups basically use their YouTube channels like a variety show), more consistently release music (digitally). . . . I also think smaller groups are probably a better business model than trying to run various theatres and employ literally hundreds of girls which, you know, must have been a HELL of a loss financially for the suits this year.

AKB may be important and their legacy certainly is, but I just have to wonder how much of a future they have longterm. Especially without an AKBingo, because honestly so many people - especially international fans - got into AKB not through their music but through seeing clips from that show online and then checking the show and then the music out. AKBingo was the hook.

I don't want to abandon the group, but once those few members I feel a connection to leave, what is there to even FOLLOW anymore?

 

Whatever, it doesn't matter what the reason is, 3x46 in Kohaku, no 48G, #NOTMYKOHAKU

IT WAS NEVER MINE TO BEGIN WITH BUT I DON'T NEED REASON TO BE IRRATIONAL

 

Maybe I was lacking in that argument, but I was trying to say as well that the rest of the group need to get a grip and support their ace. Acchan was undoubtedly the ace of the group, Yuko wasn't even close, but she was only able to do so because the rest of the group were supporting her and acknowledging how difficult it was for her. I also remember Miichan saying that for Janken, she was scared to become centre because she'd seen what it did to Acchan and couldn't imagine herself handling that burden. Miichan was still an essential part of the group, not only because she was supportive for Acchan, but because the group also needs members who are okay to not be in the front and still give it their best. We need girls that are happy being on the sidelines, having some but not all of the attention.

I personally really loved both Shitsuren, Arigatou as well as Sustainable. Imo, all of their singles since 2017 except Sentimental Train and Jabaja were really good. Those were the only ones I didn't enjoy. Obviously taste is objective, but I don't think the music is their issue; just the way they sell it and push it aside for the likes of KFC and 365.