Single Nogizaka46 13th (Ima, Hanashitai Dareka ga Iru) (15/10/28)

yea i'm sure the other girls are well liked and apparently no one has a problem with the other girls so the issue remains everyone has an issue with ikoma so ikoma is the issue here apparently not the other girls

 

i totally agree it's not a big deal at all which is why i'm fine with ikoma or almost any of the girls as center

 

kanjo, pardon.

 

Adding to the current discussion, I agree with @baymon in that the crying was because the members did not want to have a kennin with AKB, & you can see that when the various members was asked about it in interviews. With this in mind I think one can argue Ikoma disappointed/upset the members even.

On the topic of her senbatsu appearance @blitzmatch , I think your feeling was not only understandable but reasonable. Altho she did rank 14th, she was the only one from nogi so there was a huge pool of votes for her to snatch up all by herself, & there was a whole nogidoko ep dedicated to her election (with lots of crying lol). So I doubt the ranking was an reflection of her popularity, not only considering the above but also her preliminary rank (prior to doko ep) of 56th & that later on she wasn't able to sale out a single one of her five handshake blocks in AKB (while as you said there were many other deserving members that sales well worthy of the exposure).


Back to the topic of being well-loved, how can we know that she is for sure? It's not like the girls will openly express their dislike for someone, & under usual circumstances I think it is reasonable to feel upset/displeasure at someone if that someone is constantly promoted/privileged despite being much worst than you in popularity (imagine in your workplace someone kept getting promoted over you despite you always doing better at work lol.) That being said, I don't think Ikoma is disliked/hated by the members, the girls genuinely seems very kind-hearted and understanding. However I don't think Ikoma's particularly close to many of them either. I have some rough idea of who's close to who in their own time (can be discerned from mobame, blog post, interviews), & with the exception of ex-member Ichiki Rena she don't seems to be especially close to anyone (now I could be biased tho lol.) If anyone's the well-loved member in the group tho, it should be maimai.

Regardless of whether she's well loved or not it's not a good metric for whether she should be pushed/centre or not, as @kanjo have stated. Why not any of the other members, if assuming they are well-loved as well? Does the fan's personal preference really should not matter if the member is well loved?


I think I'll just elaborate on why many don't desire Ikoma being pushed or as centre. Ultimately the problem with Ikoma is resource distribution, which I think fans expect (altho not necessarily in these specific wordings) to reflect meritocracy &/or equity of opportunity. My meritocracy, I mean of course members should receives a share of resources roughly in line with her popularity. For example, considering nanase's popularity one can argue she receives roughly the right amount of resources (more or less?), while for misa's case there's pretty much a consensus that she's shafted (& it was real bad for a long time.) Ikoma's problem here is she receives far more than her popularity indicates (she prolly receives more resources that most if not all fukujins!) despite a lack of result to show for it. With this in mind I think it's reasonable that fans of not only fukujins, but senbatsu & unders, find this an annoyance.

& what do I mean by equity of opportunity? I meant that even if one is not popular, fans will be alright (& in fact demands it!) for some resources to be put toward members that are less popular or exposed. Just think of the various talks of 2nd gen we have had on this thread, not only will we be alright if some of them receive a nudge & push, many of us prolly demands it lol. This only applies if the member have not been particularly exposed nor privileged in resource intake however. Most Unders & prolly even many in senbatsu counts as these, Ikoma is not as she have been well pushed since the beginning of time lol.

To conclude, to put it simply, Ikoma's push is just not dam fair not matter what way you cut it lol. As I have said before, cease her push & release her to senbatsu 3rd row, & maybe she'll be able to pull a minami lol

 

That think should idols group´s "tycoon" think self, at excatly at Nogizaka46. Whose will be work between? Or not.
Only that whose we push now...

Well, let´s see what that Nogizaka 46´s " Tycoon" at think. I selft... I really think at who will "work " between, and is not good results.
I self think that Ikoma or Nanase cant be next... or can... or Iruka, Mai... Or can that again that one gen 2 who wasnt are yet Senbatsu, giwen center?
At first time Senbatsu and at center it...
That sim, some one maked 30 ( 3*10) girls senbatsu! Too big, if you ask me. 10-7-(2) or 7-6-5 (1) or 9-8-(2) was... 18 and thats it. Maybe 19 if douple center...
Well...

 

speaking of nanase that's another 1 alot of people seemed burnt out on and i don't understand that one either i really like her as well and it shouldn't matter if she was center 3 times i'm sure fans still liked those songs she was center on and people may say it's not fair but hey life isn't fair and apparently someone in that organization sees something about ikoma and nishino the fans don't heh

 

I think there must be a reason why Ikoma keeps being appointed center even if it's not completely evident to us, and to be honest, while people whine about management being absolutely clueless or ignoring the fans, they have successfuly managed to keep Nogi gaining momentum even with all the "48G" saturation going on right now. I mean, IIRC all of AKB's sister groups are plateauing or dropping in sales and AKB itself had to do away with the gimmicky janken single because their million streak was about to be broken if things continued along that path. On the other hand, Nogi is constantly blossoming, has a stable fanbase that goes beyond the army of wotas that stan other 48G, and some of their members like Maiyan have spoken about their desire to turn the group into a less "traditional idol" route and more into an artistic territory of sorts.

Let's be honest, if all Ikoma represented for the brand were losses and unprofessional behavior she would've been given the boot a long time ago. Why is it Ikoma in particular over countless other girls who are better performers than her, more charismatic, more popular and ultimately fit the brand's image much better? No idea, hell, it might even only be Akimoto Yasushi's stubbornness keeping her on top against everybody else's good judgement (he's favored some unpopular girls and pushed them to a certain degree over their more popular/talented counterparts, although NEVER to the extent of Ikoma's push).

I think her concurrency in AKB (which I honestly didn't care about either way at all, I'm just a casual fan of Ikoma, she's very entertaining to me on variety and I think she's earnest and has a certain unique vibe to her character that I find interesting) was kind of a challenge to see if she would rise or fall indefinitely. Say what you want about her antis and her lack of fans, but there were enough people willing to push her into senbatsu in the AKB elections, which is an interesting turn of events because we all know that if it had been a more popular Nogi girl it wouldn't have ever been doubted, but because it was Ikoma nobody was really sure how it would turn out. She managed to make the fans of Nogi, who take pride in their group's non-AKB-ness, vote for her (who is an unpopular member and the very definition of the concept of "failed push" in the idol world), enough so that she ended up in senbatsu. That's an impressive achievement. My point is, she is certainly not as "hated by everyone" as people say she is, I'd say that most Nogi fans think she's alright but she's not their favorite member.

I don't want a permanent center for Nogi, I want to keep things interesting and the staleness of the AKB senbatsu roster makes me want to weep and is part of the reason why I dropped the group altogether. I definitely don't think Ikoma is the perfect image for Nogi or that she should stay as center, but she's undoubtedly been groomed for being a front girl since that other girl who was supposed to be Nogi's center left the group. The mgmt has probably made an investment (even if it's only PR wise, because AFAIK Ikoma is one of the most widely recognized Nogi members in Japan) in her and I don't think they're going to go "Oh, screw this unpopular girl, let's drop her from senbatsu altogether and make Eto Misa center because she sells SUPER well" no matter how unfair it is.

ETA: Nishino is the best HS seller in Nogi and one of the most popular members if not the most popular. People adore her, but I just think that after the 6th single fans find the rotating center a very interesting concept and don't want anyone to be named permanent center.

 

Life's not fair is a rly poor reason for the push tbh lol
Also yes fans would prefer someone else to centre over naa, there's nothing wrong with that. However, naa should not be lumped into the same category as Ikoma, as she is actually very popular & that many would still prefer her to centre over Ikoma.

@garnetjester , I agree mngmnt probably have their reasons for pushing her, & that she's not "hated by everyone" lol. On the latter, many likes her & there's nothing wrong with that lol. The problem rather is that she is not liked by a significant amount of ppl (especially in comparison to other members) but still gets way more resources than her corresponding popularity. Regarding the former, just because mngmnt have their reasons for pushing her doesn't make it a good decision. Organizations, be it business or government, make bad decisions all the time, so just because they have an opinion doesn't automatically make it right.

Let's put this whole thing in another angle, instead of viewing things from the angle of Ikoma, why not view it from the point of other members? Is it not reasonable that other talented & popular members get a corresponding share of resources instead of hoarding a great deal of them on only one that have not shown good returns?

 

Well, yeah, this like that topic is " Tell what you think Ikoma?"

Question isnt that after all now at question. Now we should think about 13 th single, i know some there dont think that fall is Ikomas season, but hey that wasn´t Ikomazaka 46, or was it?

Anyway, that sim (which rust show us) are people maded inresting Senbatsu.
So we can try found there or make there our dreamed ultimate Senbatsu.

And other think: Are you sure at we don´t seen at peak aldready?

 

AHAHAHA @ikomazaka girls have mercy i tell you what i think nogizaka has unlimited potential and no they're definitely not at their peak and as a fan of course i would think that

 

I don't want to come across as the kind of fan who justifies everything management does, because I've been a fan of AKB for a long time now and BOY can they fail spectacularly, but I think that in this particular case, Nogi's mgmt is doing well enough for the group for me to chalk Ikoma's return to center to having an interesting narrative for the Nogi documentary and being mentioned in news and stuff with her story of "regaining the throne". However, if they keep her as center permanently then I'd join the choir of people saying that mgmt is crazy for pushing Ikoma.

I'm not saying that Ikoma should be pitied or that her position in the group should be at the top (I think lower fukujin is a nice compromise between mgmt and fans opinions of her), and I understand the point of view of the other girls, trust me, as an Ikuta fan there's nothing that pisses me off more than Akimoto saying that Erika is the perfect idol and that's the reason why he didn't want her to center the group because people would think they're an AKB and Maeda Atsuko ripoff which lol. I love Acchan, don't get me wrong, but other than their general aura there's NOTHING in common between her and Ikutan and it pisses me off that she was robbed of the chance to perfectly lead Nogi and have a truckload of solos (like Nanase is getting now) because of Akimoto's stupid remarks.

I just think that Nogi fans would do better just dealing with it than freaking out about it, because I doubt that things are going to change unless Nogi starts doing not so well and mgmt takes that as a wake up call.

I hate AKB's ssk in principle, but I think it's a useful tool to gauge which members could probably have the popularity to sustain their push in the group. Take for example Ishida Anna from SKE, she's a very pretty member (she reminds me so much of Miria) and an excellent performer who was selected for senbatsu consistently even though her popularity never picked up, after she failed to rank for like 4 years in a row she was dropped from senbatsu in favor of more profitable girls. Now, bear with me, because SKE's mgmt is a mess, but what I mean is that while they can milk Ikoma's presence in the group they're going to keep her at the top because of what they've invested in her already and whatever ulterior motives they also have for her push.

 

I also believe that management must have a reason to place Ikoma at the center, they are moneymakers and wouldn't push her like that if they weren't getting back the money they invested. I think the treatment they give to Maiyan is really bad though. She is popular, beautiful, a good dancer and vocalist. And yet she hasn't been center ever since 2013. I think it's time to redeem themselves and make her center again.

I don't really mind Ikoma, to me seeing her centering is more boring than unfair. I like her, she's funny and humble, but everyday she gets more haters than fans. Just imagine if Naanya started centering every AKB single, haters would destroy her.

Nanase, on the other hand, is a great center. Not only is she the most popular among fans, she also has a special aura around her. She is not the greatest talker, but she is an AWESOME performer (she did an incredible job on Inochi wa Utsukushii). Besides, she is centering a single so she should be expected to perform instead of being an excellent MC. Among the other options, Ikuchan is an amazing center and I actually wouldn't mind having her back. She is a great mixture of funny and talented, mixed with cuteness and beauty. It would be nice that in the unit songs, instead of making the popular members center them they would try with members such as Nanamin, MaiMai or Manhattan. Then fans and management would be able to see how they do as centers and consider making them centers of singles.


And I'm interested in what one user above has said about Maiyan wanting Nogi to be more artistic, can I have more info on that?

 

Maybe I just look at too much at some things that tells me that is. But, are girls interesting think how well that or that single sold, I tried looking for that at least Himetan blog posts and answer is... Her was more talk these performances. But we at stage that side think little more at how single or that sold. But again, who was interesting how well these sells at are "tycoons".

 

the entire center position situation really scares me because if people are tired of ikoma or nishino as center then what's going to happen if fukugawa or kazumin or mariko or shinuchi or whomever it may be becomes center 3 4 5 times ?are people going to rage after seeing their favorite be center multiple times ?i really fear this will be a never ending cycle of madness towards the center position here

 

Well. But anyway what kind single it's? Because it was fall at one. I quest for that is like what these 10-12 was are, or can it be something test us? At single at full discorock, of course Nogizaka 46 wasn't that style... But?

 

Once again echoing @kanjo , I agree there would be a lot happy fans if many of the other members can get a chance at centre. As for your hypothetical situation, considering how we only have 12 single so far I think that situation you described is far from a worry we need to have atm lol. The idea of course tho is not to overly push anyone (which is unfortunately most exemplified by the Ikoma push), be it maimai or kazu or marika or maichun, but rather strike a good balance.